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Airtran Changing Terminals At PHL?  
User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

When I got to work tonight at PHL, I noticed that the Airtran offices and break rooms at PHL were empty as if they had moved out. I went upstairs into the terminal and didn't see any planes parked at the D gates either. I checked the flight info displays and noticed that the last arriving flights were using gates E6 and E8. No one here had heard anything about the move. The airport usually puts out an advisory of such things, but apparently didn't in this case. Does anyone know if this move is permanent and who is going to be taking over the now vacant 4 gates in D terminal?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVoltage From United States of America, joined May 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Is WN still split between D and E? perhaps they swapped their gates with FL so they could be all in the same concourse?

User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3664 times:
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We received a notice last week at the ATCT about FL moving to E6 and E8. It said it was part of the "Airline Terminal Relocation Program" or something along those lines. The name implies that other airlines will be moving in the future as well. I think I read a while back on a DL/NW web page about terminal consolidation that NW is moving to A-East in the fall. If that happens I wouldn't be surprised if AA got shoved down to D and WN takes over all of E.


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User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3628 times:



Quoting Wagz (Reply 2):
We received a notice last week at the ATCT about FL moving to E6 and E8. It said it was part of the "Airline Terminal Relocation Program" or something along those lines. The name implies that other airlines will be moving in the future as well. I think I read a while back on a DL/NW web page about terminal consolidation that NW is moving to A-East in the fall. If that happens I wouldn't be surprised if AA got shoved down to D and WN takes over all of E.

I think moving NW in with DL in A-East would make sense considering DL is taking over the Paris flight from AF in the fall and a new Crown Room Club was just built for them last year in that terminal. However, I heard recently that they may be moving to D and a new club would be built in the space formerly occupied by the USO.

My opinion is that they should go with the plan mentioned above, moving NW to A-East to be with DL and have AA, YX and F9 move to D and give WN all of E after the construction of the hammerhead and new gates are complete. With FL going to E, there are now 5 vacant gates in D to rent to the other carriers and if WN was moved entirely to E, they can give up their 4 gates in D to the other carriers, FL can go back to D or perhaps B6 or another carrier not currently at PHL can move in.


User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3624 times:



Quoting Voltage (Reply 1):
Is WN still split between D and E? perhaps they swapped their gates with FL so they could be all in the same concourse?

WN is still split between both terminals. FL took over 2 gates that were previously used by NW. Now NW is down to 2 gates in E and WN has the rest as well as 4 in D.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Either AA or DL/NW will be moving to the vacated D gates. AA would be a better choice and would give DL/NW the needed space in A, however I have heard that DL/NW may be the one to move.

When is the E extension slated to be finished. Once that is completed and WN consolidates in E, how many gates will there be (12-15?). There is a likelyhood of at least 2 or 3 unused gates after the WN consolidation.

Have to admit even with the new D/E security lines(which I have heard is already becoming clogged) it will be an absolute mess if you have UA, CO, AA or DL, FL, and WN all consolidated in this area.


User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3569 times:
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Will UA be moving also?

Last time I flew UA out of PHL,
they were in the "D" concourse hammerhead.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

No, UA currently has D5, D7, D9, D11, D13 (D11, and D13 are on the hammerhead)

D12, D14, D15, D16 should currently be vacant. CO occasionally uses D12 as an overflow gate.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3434 times:



Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 5):
Either AA or DL/NW will be moving to the vacated D gates. AA would be a better choice and would give DL/NW the needed space in A, however I have heard that DL/NW may be the one to move.

I know another airline that would like DL/NW to move:

US. as in they move out of A-East so that US can have the additional gate space for their int'l 757 ops.

I think the following could work...

in concourse D:
DL (NW)
FL
F9
YX
AA

concourse E: WN

Concourse A-East, what about having US, as well as UA and CO there since CO is joining Star?

But then, who the heck outside of all of this really knows what's going on. PHL is a huge mess!!



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 day ago) and read 3397 times:

There are a bunch of relocations in the works at PHL that have already will be happening shortly:

FL from D -> E
WN consolidating in E, no longer any gates on D
NW is leaving E

The unknown is where DL is going, but most signs point to NW/DL moving into D.
NW will leave E
DL will leave A East

US and PHL want DL to leave A-East since they are International Arrivals gates
AA's gates in A-West are not set up to handle international arrivals.

Rumor is that DL is relocating to D.
DL will move the Skyclub to the D-E connector
With DL taking over the PHL-CDG flight, the flight will depart from D, arriving into A-East and have the a/c towed over to D for departure.

The question is how many gates UA & CO will need, with CO joining Star. What is the potential that UA or CO would give up some gates on D and potentially move over with US?


User currently offlineN917me From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 day ago) and read 3372 times:

DL/NW will be moving to D. Original plans were to have AA/YX move to D and keep DL/NW, but as usual in PHL things change. Terminal D will be getting a makeover including ticketing and baggage.. DL/NW will be in D.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7516 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (5 years 23 hours ago) and read 3368 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
The question is how many gates UA & CO will need, with CO joining Star. What is the potential that UA or CO would give up some gates on D and potentially move over with US?

Off hand, none. There's no route overlap with either carrier out of PHL.

Quoting PHLJJS (Thread starter):

So it finally happened; the number of FL's gates goes from 4 (at D) to 2 (at E). The only thing that surprised me was the fact that the reduction also involved a move and the short notice. I just flew FL out of D just 2 weeks ago.

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 4):
FL took over 2 gates that were previously used by NW.

A more accurate term would be FL moved over to 2 gates previously used by NW. Something tells me and that the decision to cut back (and move) FL was made relatively recent.

Quoting Wagz (Reply 2):
I wouldn't be surprised if AA got shoved down to D and WN takes over all of E.

The only thing is, if WN is ultimately getting ALL of E (which would include Gates E6 and E8); why even bother moving FL to over E at all?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
F9
YX

Do keep in mind with the recent going-ons regarding Republic grabbing both F9 and YX; it's quite possible that BOTH of those carriers could very well be gone from PHL a year from now.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
AA's gates in A-West are not set up to handle international arrivals.

Last time I checked, AA's gates are all in A-East. I believe that every gate in the newer A-West terminal can handle international arrivals.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7516 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (5 years 23 hours ago) and read 3365 times:



Quoting N917me (Reply 10):
DL/NW will be moving to D. Original plans were to have AA/YX move to D and keep DL/NW, but as usual in PHL things change. Terminal D will be getting a makeover including ticketing and baggage.. DL/NW will be in D.

Your post overlapped my previous post. That would explain the FL move.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 20 hours ago) and read 3290 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
FL from D -> E
WN consolidating in E, no longer any gates on D

This will result in a net loss of gates for WN, at least temporarily.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
The question is how many gates UA & CO will need, with CO joining Star. What is the potential that UA or CO would give up some gates on D and potentially move over with US?

If WN gives up its 4 gates in D and FL just gave up its 4 gates in D, there are 8 vacant gates. DL/NW will probably only take 4 or 5 at the most so there are 3 empty gates, no reason right now for UA/CO to consolidate operations.


User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 17 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

I just saw a building permit in the area of FL's former offices and break area and it confirms that DL/NW will be taking over that space as well as the 4 gates in the D hammerhead area that FL occupied.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7516 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 13):
no reason right now for UA/CO to consolidate operations.

While this is slightly off-topic; I think we need to put the UA/CO consolidation notions to rest once and for all. Just because CO is joining Star, it does NOT mean that they're consolidating domestic operations with UA or even US for that matter. All the alliance essentially does is allow CO to sell UA tickets and vice-versa (along w/other alliance partners, of course)... that's it.

Case and point: when US joined Star just a few years ago; did they consolidate their domestic operations with UA? Heck No!

When DL joined Skyteam a few years ago; did they consolidate their domestic operations w/CO or NW pre-merger? Heck No!

Why would CO joining Star be any different? Joining an alliance doesn't necessarily mean a merger with an alliance partner.

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 13):
there are 3 empty gates

One has to wonder whether one of those empty gates could mean an opprtunity (though doubtful IMHO, but never say 'never') for B6 to come in? Especially should WN indeed start offering PHL-BOS service.

[Edited 2009-08-21 07:43:14]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (5 years ago) and read 3038 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
The question is how many gates UA & CO will need, with CO joining Star. What is the potential that UA or CO would give up some gates on D and potentially move over with US?

I know that was my question, altho it seems that there really is no necessity to have US, UA, and CO all in one concourse or terminal with each other...

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Do keep in mind with the recent going-ons regarding Republic grabbing both F9 and YX; it's quite possible that BOTH of those carriers could very well be gone from PHL a year from now.

Thanks for that pointer...

I suppose US could have PHL-MKE well covered if they don't already, along with how many airlines on PHL-DEN. Don't US, UA, and now WN operate that route?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22863 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years ago) and read 3031 times:



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
Case and point: when US joined Star just a few years ago; did they consolidate their domestic operations with UA? Heck No!

It's a bit different at PHL than at most domestic stations, though, because all gates are not connected post-security. That makes the situation more like MKE, for instance, where CO DID move in with NW (back in the pre-Skyteam days) and US moved over to C to be with UA once UA got moved out of D. Adjacent gates are not a necessity, but I do think that most alliances, Star included, try to avoid terminal changes and security reclearance where possible.



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User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

US does not want to give up any gates in PHL, so there's no way they would give up 6-7 gates on B/C just to have UA/CO over there. Good to see that PHL is fixing something that should've never been tampered with in the first place (moving DL to Intl capable A-East gates).

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
It's a bit different at PHL than at most domestic stations, though, because all gates are not connected post-security.

Actually now that the D/E connector is open, all of the terminals are now accessible behind security, with the exception of F Concourse.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22863 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3007 times:



Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):
with the exception of F Concourse.

...which is accessible on the bus. Never mind my comment, then.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6742 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2953 times:



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
When DL joined Skyteam a few years ago; did they consolidate their domestic operations w/CO or NW pre-merger? Heck No!

That's not entirely the case, operations were consolidated at certain airports. DL moved to the McNamara Terminal at DTW well before the merger was announced, while CO and NW both moved to Terminal 3, Concourse A at CVG. CO also moved to Terminal E at DFW after joining SkyTeam and before Delta closed the hub. DL swapped gates at IAH in anticipation of the extension of the TerminaLink train to the North Concourse of Terminal A.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):
Actually now that the D/E connector is open, all of the terminals are now accessible behind security, with the exception of F Concourse.

True -- not that this makes a difference with respect to UA & CO. Terminal D, which houses both, was connected to Terminals A, B and C beyond security already.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 15):
One has to wonder whether one of those empty gates could mean an opprtunity (though doubtful IMHO, but never say 'never') for B6 to come in? Especially should WN indeed start offering PHL-BOS service.

One would think that it would make more sense for B6 to jump on the opportunity before WN does. But this is another market where WN would have a natural advantage due to connections at PHL.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
The only thing is, if WN is ultimately getting ALL of E (which would include Gates E6 and E8); why even bother moving FL to over E at all?

One would indeed think that it would have made more sense to have WN take those two NW gates in E and give AirTran two of WN's gates in D. Perhaps WN won't be taking all of the expanded E for a while.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22863 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2948 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
Perhaps WN won't be taking all of the expanded E for a while.

 checkmark  I'm not sure WN wants to aggressively grow PHL right now. Then again, I think DEN was one of the reasons that PHL growth stagnated some, and it's tough to figure out where they're going to go from here in DEN.



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User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7516 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2792 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
I suppose US could have PHL-MKE well covered if they don't already

US (Express) has flown the route for years. If YX (Connect) were to drop off, US could clearly fill any void if need be.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
Don't US, UA, and now WN operate that route?

Yes along w/F9 which still flies the route (although only 1 r/t per day).



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2712 times:



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 22):
Yes along w/F9 which still flies the route (although only 1 r/t per day).

I looked at each airline's website, except F9's... and I found this:

US
2x A320 daily
1x A321 daily

UA
1x 757 daily
1x A320 daily

WN
2x daily

So, minus F9, it looks like there are still roughly 1,000 seats going to DEN. According to faremeasure.com, the average O&D on PHL-DEN is almost equal to the number of seats offered by US, UA, and WN...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2686 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 23):
UA
1x 757 daily
1x A320 daily

Only 2x from DEN, i thought they were once up at 4 a day.


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