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United Puts Out RFP For More Express Flying  
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15643 times:

I don't have an official link on this, but United today put out an RFP to several regional carriers for express flying. I am not sure if this is to replace 737 flying, to replace flying done by an existing carrier, or what this is about. I learned this from a company memo put out to employees at my company.

Any intital thoughts on frontrunners for this? My initial thought is there is no way Republic will win this based on recent events.

(Note to Moderators, there is another thread open on a United RFP, but that deals with the Express ground handling in ORD. This one is about new flying, and I couldn't find any links to it. If there is an exisiting thread, please copy and paste all articles from this thread onto that one.)

111 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15572 times:



Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
there is no way Republic will win this based on recent events.

Is F9 + WN that much worse than huge WN? I'm not so sure.

If UA is interested in DH4s, and the rumor is that they are, L4 would probably be a front-runner. There would probably be bad press if they hired 9L...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15499 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
If UA is interested in DH4s, and the rumor is that they are, L4 would probably be a front-runner. There would probably be bad press if they hired 9L...

I doubt Lynx would be a front runner for a few reasons. If its Q 400 flying (I don't know exactly what the parameters of the RFP are), it would presumably be to replace the Mesa Dash 8 flying in Denver. In this situation, wouldn't it be easier for UA to just codeshare with Lynx who is already flying routes out of DEN that UA would want them to fly. Secondly, Lynx already has a flying deal for a different carrier in DEN, and this other carrier would financially benefit from a UA deal, and there is no way UA is going to now give more money to a company that is already causing them to lose pricing power at one of their most important hubs. Thats the big reason I don't think any Republic owned company is going to win this flying, especially since it was much of their money used to buy their biggest DEN rival (WN doesn't yet have the DEN presence that F9 has). I also agree there is no way they would want the press that a Colgan win would give them, even though lost in the shuffle is the fact that Colgan is already operating Saabs out of IAD for UA.

If its for more jet flying, I see four possibilities here. Skywest is obviously going to be a player in any new United Deal. Air Wisconsin will be very aggressive in pursuing the flying, and they are in a good position to bid it as incremental growth, which is a less expensive way to do it, and they have the resources to acquire new aircraft for such a bid. The fact that the ORD ground handling is also up may help them as well. GoJet will likely be a player as well, as they have aircraft on order that I don't believe are covered by the current UA deal. I hate to say that, but with Tilton running UA, they have to be a possibility. And one more possibility I would throw out would be ExpressJet. They are doing some flying now with the Aquafresh planes, and given the CO/UA partnership this would be a natural fit for some of the ERJ's that CO has that don't have homes. That being said, I would like to think that they would like to just stick to CO as much as possible. The RST incident didn't help their cause either.

As I said, Anything Republic I doubt will play in this. And I don't think Mesa is a good enough financial position to be a serious player in this bid. So I think the four players will be GoJet, Skywest, Air Wisconsin, and ExpressJet. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15473 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 2):
If its Q 400 flying (I don't know exactly what the parameters of the RFP are), it would presumably be to replace the Mesa Dash 8 flying in Denver.

Why do you say that? They'd replace DH2s nearly two-for-one.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 2):
Thats the big reason I don't think any Republic owned company is going to win this flying, especially since it was much of their money used to buy their biggest DEN rival

Let me ask again, though: is it better for Republic to own F9 than for WN to own F9? If UA did not want WN to grow that much in DEN, perhaps the Republic transaction is a "win" for UA.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15412 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
Let me ask again, though: is it better for Republic to own F9 than for WN to own F9? If UA did not want WN to grow that much in DEN, perhaps the Republic transaction is a "win" for UA.

I do think the WN deal would have been better for UA than the RP deal and here is why. If you take a look at every UA hub (IAD, LAX, ORD, DEN, and SFO), every city already has a significant WN presence. ORD is probably their most important hub, and MDW is arguably WN's most important station as well. They compete like crazy, and both airlines make it work. SFO and LAX have only run into slight problems because VX decided to cherry pick routes from them and most of those routes aren't even flown by WN. But overall UA still makes both stations, especially SFO, work very well. In DEN, UA's pricing power started to diminish as F9 got bigger. WN entering the market didn't help, but if what has been rumored about DEN losing money for WN is true, WN getting F9 would leave WN and UA as the two biggest carriers there, and WN would certainly raise fares a bit to stem off some losses. So I think UA would gain some pricing power in DEN without F9. Now with RP in the mix, you have three major players competing, which I think trashes some of the pricing power that UA would have gained from a WN deal. Keep in mind that WN has built up PHL and US still has some pricing power in PHL, one reason that PIT got the ax.


User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15413 times:



Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
I don't have an official link on this, but United today put out an RFP to several regional carriers for express flying. I am not sure if this is to replace 737 flying, to replace flying done by an existing carrier, or what this is about. I learned this from a company memo put out to employees at my company.

Do you think there would be any chance of ZW putting any of the old BAE 146's back into service, or were those already chopped?


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15377 times:



Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 5):
Do you think there would be any chance of ZW putting any of the old BAE 146's back into service, or were those already chopped?

No chance at all. They are all off the property now and no longer on the certificate, plus they are big time fuel guzzlers which is not exactly what you want in an airplane these days. 170's can do the jobs just as well with less fuel IMO.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25416 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15364 times:
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Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
My initial thought is there is no way Republic will win this based on recent events.

if United is that cross with Republic, why did they go ahead with the Mokulele interline after the Republic bid for Frontier was announced?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15209 times:

Is there any word on what type/seat capacity aircraft UA is looking for? This might help in getting a better feel with what UA plans to do.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15152 times:

Come to think of it, I've heard UA has almost finished phasing out the 737. It would seem if they where looking for a regional replacement for this the phase in would have already started.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14986 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
Let me ask again, though: is it better for Republic to own F9 than for WN to own F9? If UA did not want WN to grow that much in DEN, perhaps the Republic transaction is a "win" for UA.

Wn was better because Wn and Ua's goals in Denver are the same. Less capacity and higher fares. Rep has clearly stated that they intend to grow Denver and has made the A320 move as some sort of proof. We'll see if they follow through. An interview with Bedford I read today admitted he intended to move some F9 aircraft to MKE and he used MKE LAX as an example.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
if United is that cross with Republic, why did they go ahead with the Mokulele interline after the Republic bid for Frontier was announced?

That's a great question. If this flying was some sort of quid pro quo with UA for more flying they wouldn't have an RFP. Thus it can't be a payback to REP. It may be that UA was happy with Rep's involvement until WN came along, but was then angry Republic didn't back out at their behest thinking WN was better for them. 2 big players is always better than 3. The timing of this makes it pretty inescapable that it is related to Republic.

Another possibility is that this is Mesa flying that is being taken away. Mesa has been reviled at the HQ for years, but the timing leads one to believe it is the severing of the REP relationship. If that is what it turns out to be, then is already on questionable ground trading guaranteed profitable flying for a 3 way war in Den and Mke.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14889 times:

I see four options of why the RFP came out. The first is if UA is going to drop Republic. The second is if UA is going to drop YV. The third was UA drooping Republic and YV. The last is new flying all together.

OK reasoning behind the different options.

1. Republic is now competing directly with UA with F9 and YX. UA has decided it is going to sever it's relationship. Possible
2. YV's contract with UA allows for the DH2's and CRJ-200's to be dropped in Oct for removal by April-10. Possible
3. Options 1 and 2 just happen to happening at the same time. Not as likely.
4. OK well new flying is possible but I don't see it be the most likely option.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25416 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14879 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
An interview with Bedford I read today admitted he intended to move some F9 aircraft to MKE and he used MKE LAX as an example.

He said it almost immediately after the auction, but I've assumed that form he git-go, and posted it here. There may also be some E170/E190 flying out of DEN, but I've assumed that from the git-go, as well.

And based on what SM has said, there may be some Frontier flying out of MKE, in their own right, but we've discussed that before, too.

Both CEO's have said they expect it will take about six months to get the right aircraft flying the right routes in the network.



Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
It may be that UA was happy with Rep's involvement until WN came along, but was then angry Republic didn't back out at their behest thinking WN was better for them.

Many analysts thought Southwest buying Frontier was really bad news for United. Here's the WSJ:

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009...r-frontier-is-bad-news-for-united/

WSJ: "Southwest’s Bid for Frontier Is Bad News for United"

And USA Today quotes several analysts:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...em.aspx?type=blog&ak=68495861.blog

USA Today: "United, beware! Southwest's bid for Frontier spells trouble, analysts say"

Then there's Business Week:

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...hives/2009/07/southwest_and_d.html

Business Week: "First, United Airlines (UAUA) is likely to face a much stronger competitor if Southwest acquires Frontier and rationalizes overlapping capacity in the Denver market. “Southwest’s move could ultimately force UAL to restructure its Denver hub which in the past we’ve argued needs to be done regardless,” analyst Dan McKenzie of Next Generation Equity Research wrote Friday in a note to clients."

So I don't know how unhappy United is that Republic won.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14847 times:

Pinnacle will be bidding into this as well, they have a new TA with the pilots and are about 50% cheaper than Skywest and AirWis, about the same as GoJet.

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14800 times:



Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 13):
Pinnacle will be bidding into this as well, they have a new TA with the pilots and are about 50% cheaper than Skywest and AirWis, about the same as GoJet.

Oh please say that aint so. If this is true, I would look at Pinnacle as the new Mesa. I have heard horror stories about the treatment of their employees. Yes their performance numbers look good, but when all your operations are dealing primarily with DTW and MSP, they will look good in any event.

The one thing I would want to know is when is the DL/NW contract up for them? I would have to believe that pursuing interests with United would jeopardize their ability to keep DL flying especially given the fact that DL would like to consolodate on their end. Certainly the 900 flying for DL is safe, but what about the 200 flying that was under NW contract?


The one wild card in any RFP in my opinion is going to be finding pilots to fly them. After the Colgan crash, are airlines going to risk the 250 hour guys again?


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14781 times:

Mariner I understand where you are coming from, but my experience has shown that Wall Street doesn't get it entirely when it comes to aviation. The arguement that Southwest would become a strong competitor doesn't hold water with me because they already are a strong compeititor now. And we know the A 320s would go away in a deal. So if WN wanted to beef up DEN, the planes have to come from somewhere. I just don't see it hurting UA as much as the Republic deal.

User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14735 times:



Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 13):
Pinnacle will be bidding into this as well, they have a new TA with the pilots and are about 50% cheaper than Skywest and AirWis, about the same as GoJet.

What's 50% cheaper?



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25416 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14714 times:
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Quoting Apodino (Reply 15):
Mariner I understand where you are coming from, but my experience has shown that Wall Street doesn't get it entirely when it comes to aviation.

Nor - necessarily - with me. I was in conflict with just about every analyst out there on the results of the Frontier auction.

Most every analyst was wrong about that.

But this makes sense to me. United has clearly had a change of model at DEN, and has, to some extent, given away a certain portion of the market - the lower end. Remember Ted?

There is a section of the market, the money end, which Frontier and Southwest cannot get and which United can.

So I think United is probably happy to let Frontier and Southwest duke it out and stay above the fray.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 15):
I just don't see it hurting UA as much as the Republic deal.

Except for one thing - Frontier now has a second hub to consider. It isn't just about DEN anymore.

The problem, as I see it, is that if Republic bids on this RFP and doesn't get it, everyone will say it is retaliation by United.

It may just be that United prefers a cheaper bid.

mariner



[Edited 2009-08-20 21:18:52]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14704 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 14):
The one wild card in any RFP in my opinion is going to be finding pilots to fly them. After the Colgan crash, are airlines going to risk the 250 hour guys again?

My understanding is that some sort of ATP will be a requirement, but this won't hurt regional ability to find pilots in the near term. There are plenty of guys on furlough who should meet these requirements.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 14):
I would have to believe that pursuing interests with United would jeopardize their ability to keep DL flying

Didn't seem to stop Republic, SkyWest, or Mesa.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14659 times:



Quoting Doug_or (Reply 18):
Didn't seem to stop Republic, SkyWest, or Mesa.

That is true, but also remember that Delta right now is being run by a bunch of NW guys, and there was no NW Airlink carrier that actually flew for a different regional prior to the merger. I am waiting to see how the regional deals at DL play out with the Merger, but I gotta believe DL management is combing the Republic Contract very carefully looking for ways out of that deal to focus the 170 flying at Compass, and in light of the Republic deals, because getting MKE may be viewed as turf encroachment by DL, especially if Q400 flying from Lynx ends up there. Also the Mesa contract is still in court, and who knows when that will be ruled on. As far as Skywest, they were an original Delta Connection carrier, and plus their parent company owns ASA which is exclusively a DL carrier and also an original one.


This isn't your fathers Delta anymore.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25416 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14627 times:
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Quoting Apodino (Reply 19):
I am waiting to see how the regional deals at DL play out with the Merger, but I gotta believe DL management is combing the Republic Contract very carefully looking for ways out of that deal to focus the 170 flying at Compass, and in light of the Republic deals, because getting MKE may be viewed as turf encroachment by DL, especially if Q400 flying from Lynx ends up there.

All that may happen, I cannot predict the future.

All I know is that Delta agreed to Republic's purchase of Midwest, and may even have encouraged it.

As part owner of Midwest, Delta had to be told what Republic's plans for Midwest were, and gave their Midwest shareholding to Republic, effectively for free.

They also expanded their code share with Republic/Midwest. the reason may not be hard to guess. I would think Delta is not unhappy to see someone crimp Airtran's style a little at MKE.

And since the code share with Frontier was already in the works, presumably Delta was told about it and presumably didn't feel too unhappy about that, either.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 14603 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 19):
there was no NW Airlink carrier that actually flew for a different regional prior to the merger.

I'm pretty sure the DL -900s came before NW and DL merged.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14458 times:

This coupled with other rumors of YV going away and ZW having talks with United again makes me wonder.

The problem is that ZW only has 200's...with long leases on them. Unless they got new aircraft (such as a CRJ900, which I believe a 200 pilot is able to fly), I can't see them flying for United.

But getting new aircraft takes time... (though I have no idea how much).

I would LOVE it if YV went away and ZW worked for United again.


User currently offlineJolau1701 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14412 times:



Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 22):
The problem is that ZW only has 200's...with long leases on them. Unless they got new aircraft (such as a CRJ900, which I believe a 200 pilot is able to fly), I can't see them flying for United.

First of all, UA doesn't use CRJ900s or any larger variant of the EMB170, and wouldn't let any of its Express carriers use it because of the 70-seat slope clause. If United were to do so, these planes would be mainline, which I don't see happening either.

Second of all, I think Mesa's flying in the IAD region would have to be CRJ200/700 flying. My thought on this would be ZW gets YV's CRJ200 flying, maybe XE RP or AX gets some of it too replacing the CRJ200 with an ERJ145. G7 gets CRJ700's or S5 replaces CRJ700s with EMB170s.

Not sure if OO will enter IAD


User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14380 times:



Quoting Jolau1701 (Reply 23):

I've heard from numerous people OO doesn't want anything to do with anything on the east coast. Granted, there's nothing I've read that actually confirms that, but it seems to be fairly well known.

Also, the 70-seat slope clause specifically excludes ZW I thought. They are the ONLY express carrier United will let fly planes larger than 70 seats, up to 90 or something like that.


25 AznCSA4QF744ER : OO is the original DLC but also, prior to the NWA/DAL merger OO agreed to purchased ASA with some attachments. The purchase of ASA also includes ASA
26 Jolau1701 : If memory serves me right, OH went on strike. OO is non-union and can't strike. The only time OO would melt down like that would be for some freak co
27 DeltaL1011man : 9E did start 900 DCI flights for DL pre-merger. 16 ATL based A/C. huh? They did with Midwest before it was bought by RW. At that point Delta was part
28 Goldenshield : SkyWest has flown to the east coast for at least 5-6 years for UA, but not out of IAD. With Midwest, the airline has experience with Newark, and now,
29 727forever : The language included specific tail numbers on airplanes so that if the airplanes were retired the deal was null and void. 727forever
30 Saab2000 : The language of the contract states that those can be replaced with up to 18 airplanes of like size and configuration, not to exceed 80 seats. Someth
31 DurangoMac : The contracts for EV and OO are almost identical.
32 Post contains links VictorKilo : United has to make a decision in October 2009 as to the 10 Mesa DH2 and 26 Mesa CR2 that can be removed in April 2010. My guess is that this RFP is in
33 Saab2000 : I'm keeping my fingers crossed for AWAC. We really, really need a morale boost and this would be a huge one.
34 NorCal : I agree, United might not be that cross with Republic actually. I read this on another forum (i.e. take it with a grain of salt) and it's an interest
35 Joeljack : Wow...very interesting...I'm taking it with a grain of salt but there are just too many pieces there to not have some validity. As long as this 190 ca
36 Kstatepilot : So does anybody have any hard information as to if UA is going to get rid of the YV D8/200 flying? I do know that replacing the D8's out of DEN would
37 Mir : Sure reads that way. I'd take it with a few very large grains of salt. -Mir
38 AznCSA4QF744ER : Who said anything about union? That's another issue, but my point is anything were to go wrong with OO operations UA would suffer. Thus, UA does not
39 Mariner : A very large grain of salt, if only because of this: Frontier has a dozen A320's on order. I am told that the Airbus person was at Frontier's SOTA ye
40 Azjubilee : Perception means nothing. Colgan is still very much at play. They're cheap! If perception meant anything why would NWA have continued to grow Pinnacle
41 Cubsrule : In which highly publicized accident or incident has 9E killed a whole bunch of passengers?
42 Azjubilee : HIB in the late 90s, when they were Express Airlines. Other than that, while there were no passengers killed, the 3701, TVC, MKE accidents all made a
43 Cubsrule : Are you arguing that either TVC or MKE made as much noise as 9L in BUF?
44 Azjubilee : No, I'm not. I'm arguing that those incidents were publicized and that's the point. It looked poorly on NWA and Pinnacle, yet none of the bad press fo
45 Cubsrule : How many accidents spur publicized legislative proposals as the 9L accident has?
46 Azjubilee : Ever heard of "the FARs are written in blood?" Most our rules are because of an accident that killed people. Most the procedures and policies at airli
47 Cubsrule : If they're nothing new, why don't you point to some other examples of crashes after which people in Congress proposed legislation?
48 Goldenshield : According to ALPA, aviation wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them.
49 Azjubilee : Seriously... these concerns that are being raised are nothing new. Issues with fatigue, training and pay have always been raised by pilots through the
50 Cubsrule : But you're arguing by assertion. Even though there has been more noise about the 9L accident than about most accidents, the public will surely forget
51 Azjubilee : I'm basing it on our culture. Many are quick to forget and are overjoyed to move on to the latest sensation and craze that is making headlines, be it
52 Cubsrule : They are quick to forget unless, as seems to have happened several times with the BUF crash, they keep getting reminded.
53 Azjubilee : Yes, but my original point is that this accident and occasionally being reminded by a poorly produced news report isn't going to make people care enou
54 Cubsrule : Completely ignore? Maybe not. Think twice? I'd say so...
55 Azjubilee : So we agree... UA isn't going to completely discount a Colgan bid. All of this discussion and you've helped me make my point. Thanks man! That's all I
56 Zone1 : I agree. Even though it might look otherwise, just because an airline wants to join Star, doesn't mean they can. Which current Star airline would spo
57 CWAFlyer : Not exactly how it shook down. SkyWest became a Western Express carrier in 1985. Delta acquired Western in December 1986 and was finalized on April 1
58 Crjfixer : If the flying is for jets Pinnacle would fly them, if it was for turboprops Colgan would fly them.....From what i hear this bid is for CRJ-900's So i
59 Cubsrule : It's important, though, for me to emphasize that if 9L is only a bit cheaper than the next cheapest (and I'm deliberately leaving "a bit" ambiguous),
60 Enilria : Like I said, WN would reduce DEN capacity through the merger (they made that pretty clear) , REP seems to be adding to it. That's the bottom line. UA
61 Mariner : I'm not arguing anything. I just quoted some analysts - I didn't say I agreed with them, and in at least a few cases, I don't think they did their ho
62 Bhmdiversion : Let's not forget the other players... EV. EV has lost out on many block hours from DL. EV has spoken with other carriers to pick up flying but no one
63 SLUAviator : The OO newspaper said a few months ago when we began getting new UA 700s the new planes were not going to IAD. Did that mean they will not be based th
64 Cubsrule : What's wrong with IAD? The airport itself is fine, and if OO didn't get the problem routes (EWR, PHL, LGA), which are mostly operated by AX, not YV,
65 DurangoMac : It's because of the North East Corridor. It is so congested in the NE that OO would prefer to just stay out of it. When YX said they were pulling MKE
66 Cubsrule : It's not the whole corridor, though. It's just the few bad airports, and AX operates almost all the 50 seat flights to those airports.
67 Ca2ohhp : Funny, I used to say that when I was stuck working YV flights. Unfortunately I now have the opportunity to work both ZW and YV side by side. In my hu
68 Enilria : I've been saying that. I think REP would have been stupid enough to proceed without UA's blessing, but who knows if they still have UA's blessing. UA
69 Rjnut : Thats sort of what I envision,... with F9 maintaining their own idientity much like Air Wisconsin did when they initially hooked up with UA eons ago!
70 Doug_or : That makes no sense whatsoever. The whole problem with the OH strike was that they were huge in CVG. If they had been spread evenly around the system
71 DeltaL1011man : Yea I'm sure the pilots/FA Unions would go for that. Not sure but I believe what your talking about is against UA's scope.
72 Ordbosshog : Wait a minute.... UA is going to make F9 a carrier that has a better Y on board product a discount carrier...... who thought of this one? If United w
73 United1 : Operating the Airbusi, or EMB-190s via a capacity purchase agreement (ie UAX) or as a separate wholly owned subsidiary would be against UAs current s
74 Enilria : It isn't since the Ch11. UA has put their code on US Airways domestic operations for years. UA will put their code on B6 eventually due to the LH tie
75 IndyWA : Not until the contract is up at least. Although RAH bought Frontier, Shuttle America did not. Do you see what I'm saying? Shuttle America is doing no
76 Mariner : That would be interesting. Republic could immediately transfer the Shuttle America fleet to their own airlines - Frontier, Midwest and Mokulele - and
77 Post contains images KGAIflyer : That might be strategic for DEN, but it would be disastrous at IAD. *All* UA service from Dulles to both Miami and New Orleans is now by S5 exclusive
78 Mariner : Republic - that is Frontier/Midwest - wouldn't to put 'em at IAD. mariner
79 KGAIflyer : Mariner, Would you rewrite your sentence [please]? I'm not sure you are saying what you mean to say.
80 Mariner : Yes. here you go: Republic - that is Frontier/Midwest - wouldn't have to put 'em at IAD. My bad. Early morning here. mariner
81 KGAIflyer : Thanks for recasting the sentence. It's a non-issue, but I'm thinking -- no other UAX contractor (that I know of) operates a fleet of E70s. So, IAD's
82 Mariner : Which is one reason why I think it is unlikely that United would drop Shuttle America. But - anything is possible. It is of course possible that Unit
83 FlyPNS1 : How is F9 a buffer between UA and WN? So far, the battle between F9 and WN has done nothing but trash UA yields and force UA to shrink to try and mai
84 Mariner : There is a section of the market that Frontier and Southwest cannot reach - the high end - and United can. I don't follow United particularly, but pe
85 KGAIflyer : Perhaps E70s are not made of gold. But, as mentioned above in reply 77, some of UA's service at IAD is *exclusively* E70. For instance, IAD-MIA is *a
86 Doug_or : Okay, but how does that make them a buffer?
87 Mariner : If Frontier were not there, United would be competing directly with a much, much larger Southwest. Frontier is a buffer against that. mariner
88 IndyWA : Mokulele flights ARE Shuttle America flights. These are Shuttle America aircraft with Shuttle America crews, not Mokulele crews. So they wouldn't nee
89 Mariner : My point is only that they could transfer more aircraft to (fly for) Mokulele. mariner[Edited 2009-08-23 16:44:59]
90 FlyPNS1 : But in all likelihood, WN by itself would be smaller than WN and F9 operating independently. WN wanted to get rid of F9 and get rid of some of the ex
91 Cubsrule : On many of these routes, it's more about the ExPlus product, also offered on CR7s, than the 170. UA sells them as the same product even though the 17
92 Mariner : I thought we had already covered all this in post #12. It was the consensus among many analysts that Southwest acquiring Frontier was very bad news f
93 Apodino : As a working member of the Dispatch group you refer too I take great offense to your post about us having a hand in our operation. I do agree that th
94 JayDub : To back up Apodino a little bit...until you have worked in a dispatch center, please, take the time to educate yourself on what actually is going on i
95 LAXintl : Since everyone is full of speculation here are who is coming or going as a UAX carrier here are some facts as to how the various current UAX partner c
96 NorCal : I see what your saying and an argument can be made for it, but remember UA has lots of lawyers who might interpret the language of that contract diff
97 FlyPNS1 : But most of those analysts know little about the airlines. They just assumed that because WN was involved it would be bad for UA. They don't seem to
98 MSYtristar : In the case of IAD-MSY, mainline operates at least one of the flights for part of the year. This year, A319 service resumes on 10/26 on two out of th
99 DeltaL1011man : The don't have a limit on codeshares also? So Ua can put its code on anything they want? As much as they want? Are you sure the pilots did have to gi
100 Mariner : Since some of those analysts - Bob MacAdoo, eg - have called what has been happening at DEN fairly accurately over the past three years, I'd say they
101 Ca2ohhp : My post was in no means intended to be an attack or throwing anybody under the bus whatsoever. I know first hand that dispatchers, maintenance contro
102 Oswegobag : I heard that United extended Chautauqua's contract another 6 months through June 2010. Has anyone else heard this or is it rumor?
103 Enilria : Well, that takes us back to REP or Mesa as the loser here. Same thing we already thought, but now verified. Thanks! UA's pilots lost that protection
104 United1 : UA can code share with any airline without ALPA approval.
105 Expressjet_erj : I hope this wasnt the master plan, but I feel in a few months to a year this is what will occur.
106 LAXintl : I suppose it could be possible, however in the RAH 10K and 10Qs is states the following. In July 2008, the Company received notice from United of the
107 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would give you LGA definitely. Which I think is a big deal. More so than people like to admit. However, US's loss in LGA, Star more than makes up w
108 Apodino : I can understand that. I know a few dispatchers that are like that and very confrontational with both stations and pilots. While at times we don't kn
109 United1 : True, there are limitations on which routes can be served (ie no feeders on intra hub flights) but at the same time the "limits" that UA has on code-
110 LAXintl : If United retained its network but simply applies a UA code to Frontier flying that would be quite possible. But for UA to vacate markets in favor of
111 DeltaL1011man : And CO is replacing US(in NYC). Co ISN'T is Star you know. But I guess if you think 500+ flight hub replacing 150 50-seater hub means it would make i
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