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Emergency 757-200 Landing At LAX. AA 414  
User currently offlineSwalifebtw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15716 times:

An AA 757 Flt 414 from SAN to DFW made an Emergency landing at LAX. Right inboard leading edge slat was damaged.

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSwalifebtw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15768 times:

Picture from a passenger

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/18/20...8/22/320x240/aa_flight_414_ugc.jpg

[Edited 2009-08-21 19:23:49]

User currently offlineSwalifebtw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15713 times:

Here's the new article.

http://cbs2.com/local/American.Airlines.Flight.2.1139320.html


User currently offlineTrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15570 times:

Cracked wing? Oh.. I love non-av reporters reporting on aviation. I can understand the concern and wanting to get it back on the ground, but I can see the stories coming out of this.

"Is the 757 too old to fly?"  Yeah sure


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15522 times:

Two AA 757 diversions in one day. BVT saw a BOS-ORD diversion due to smoke in the cabin.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15493 times:

It looks delaminated,but from the aft end..Odd.
What was the powerplant on this involved aircraft?
regds
MEL...



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePlainplane From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 846 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15336 times:

Does this look consistent with a strike or a structural failure?

Judging by the picture it looks like it has RR engines.


User currently offlinePlatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15334 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20090821/2125Z/KSAN/KLAX

Why divert to LAX? Why not back to SAN or keep going to PHX? Weather?



Never forget United 93
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15256 times:



Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 7):
Why divert to LAX? Why not back to SAN or keep going to PHX? Weather?

Nearest AA maintenance base.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15238 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Two AA 757 diversions in one day. BVT saw a BOS-ORD diversion due to smoke in the cabin.

 confused  Still looking for the airport with the identifier "BVT" or "KBVT"...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15225 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
   Still looking for the airport with the identifier "BVT" or "KBVT"..

Burlington,Vermont


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1975 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15218 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
What was the powerplant on this involved aircraft?

I believe AA has only RR-powered 757s now.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15200 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 10):
Burlington,Vermont

Ahh, BTV  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15119 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Ahh, BTV

Yeah, typos are a butch.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRobt760 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15102 times:



Quoting Swalifebtw (Thread starter):
An AA 757 Flt 414 from SAN to DFW made an Emergency landing at LAX. Right inboard leading edge slat was damaged.

Looks like they diverted to LAX about 2.5 hrs after scheduled departure. Then they sub-ed a 763 for the continuation LAX-DFW.

Dep LAX 1908/ARR DFW 2350

**Source of info: AACARGO.COM


User currently offlineTootallsd From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14995 times:
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As a San Diegan, I would much prefer an emergency landing or routine diversion to LAX than SAN. If the aerodynamics of the plane were at all compromised, LAX has a much easier approach and room on the runway.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14886 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Trigged (Reply 3):
wing? Oh.. I love non-av reporters reporting on aviation. I can understand the concern and wanting to get it back on the ground, but I can see the stories coming out of this.

"Is the 757 too old to fly

Very true. When it was first reported and shown by the helicopter reporter, he said it was a 767 but it was very clear from the live shots from above it was a 752.

Are the 752s begining to have a lot more mechanicals now as time goes along? We all know how that goes as a/c get up there in the years and cycles.


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1606 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14662 times:



Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 15):
As a San Diegan, I would much prefer an emergency landing or routine diversion to LAX than SAN. If the aerodynamics of the plane were at all compromised, LAX has a much easier approach and room on the runway.

You'll never see an emergency landing at San Diego because...

A) of the steep approach right over the city and...

B) it is a very busy one-runway airport. SAN would come to grinding halt real quick if it were to block runway access for what ever reason.

The flight reached Yuma before heading back to LAX. PHX & LAX were about equal distance so I guess they chose the one with a MX base.

Of course, AA did land a 727 here once with a missing engine that fell off somewhere near ELP on a scheduled flight from DFW-SAN. I'll never figure that one out.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14572 times:



Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
Of course, AA did land a 727 here once with a missing engine that fell off somewhere near ELP on a scheduled flight from DFW-SAN. I'll never figure that one out.

That one's easy---they didn't know they'd lost the engine, lost, that is, as in having physically departed the aircraft. They knew they'd had an engine failure/shutdown, and treated it as such, and the fact they were on a 727-200 gave (per 121.565) the captain the option of continuing to the intended destination (instead of landing at the nearest suitable airport), which they did. Only when they did a walkaround after landing at SAN did they observe the #3 engine was no longer attached to the aircraft.


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14535 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
That one's easy---they didn't know they'd lost the engine, lost, that is, as in having physically departed the aircraft. They knew they'd had an engine failure/shutdown, and treated it as such, and the fact they were on a 727-200 gave (per 121.565) the captain the option of continuing to the intended destination (instead of landing at the nearest suitable airport), which they did. Only when they did a walkaround after landing at SAN did they observe the #3 engine was no longer attached to the aircraft.

Wow. That is utterly amazing.

My first thought was, didn't the plane's handling change when the engine fell off? But then, it would have been asymmetrical, anyway, because of the shutdown.

To bring it back on topic, if I were in an AA 757 in the southwest corner of the country and needed to make an emergency landing with compromised flight controls, there's no place I'd rather go than LAX. Well, maybe Edwards Air Force Base if things were really screwed up!


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14331 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
Wow. That is utterly amazing.

The AA engine separation event was the second of three such events (separation of #3 from ingested ice formed by a leaky front lav) that occured in the 1970s and 1980s. The first was a National (v1.0) 727-200 over New Mexico in the late 1970s, the AA event in the mid-1980s, and the NWA event over Georgia from the late-1980s pictured here:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Harrison



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
To bring it back on topic, if I were in an AA 757 in the southwest corner of the country and needed to make an emergency landing with compromised flight controls, there's no place I'd rather go than LAX. Well, maybe Edwards Air Force Base if things were really screwed up!

Well, it wasn't quite that adverse a situation (compomised flight controls), as what they appear to have had was some partial delamination of a L/E slat. It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.


User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13212 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.

I sent a message to "KCAL9", giving them the CORRECT information that has been posted here. I lightly scolded them on another case of sensationalized journalism.  hissyfit 


Anyone have any theory on what would have caused the delamination? Corrosion would be my guess... maybe a wingstrike by some foreign object?



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6085 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13067 times:

Gotta love the media. This kind of damage is akin to scraping your knee while riding a bike; it SHOULD be a non-news-worthy event.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12768 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
My first thought was, didn't the plane's handling change when the engine fell off? But then, it would have been asymmetrical, anyway, because of the shutdown.

I'd guess because of decreased drag on the missing engine side, handling would be slightly less asymmetrical on a 727 with a missing engine than on one with an engine that's shut down... but then with all three engines mounted so close to each other, how asymmetrical could the thrust get on a 727 anyway?

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
Well, it wasn't quite that adverse a situation (compomised flight controls), as what they appear to have had was some partial delamination of a L/E slat. It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.

Agreed. It's not as if the entire slat fell off. Since the L/E slats appear to be deployed to an equal degree along the wing in the pax pic, it seems to still be functioning properly.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 22):
Gotta love the media. This kind of damage is akin to scraping your knee while riding a bike; it SHOULD be a non-news-worthy event.

 checkmark 

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 21):
Anyone have any theory on what would have caused the delamination? Corrosion would be my guess... maybe a wingstrike by some foreign object?

Odd that it would delaminate on the trailing edge, though, and more on the outside than on the inside (as evidenced by what appears to be exposed foam filler).



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11977 times:



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 11):
I believe AA has only RR-powered 757s now.

- I believe the 757s that came from TW had different power and were released.

Quoting Robt760 (Reply 14):
Then they sub-ed a 763 for the continuation LAX-DFW.

- Even though the 757 and 767 have commonality I assume that AA had a different flight crew for the 767?


David



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
25 7673mech : Composites typically delaminate when moisture gets into voids - such as one caused by a stone chip. The fact that it is on the trailing edge of the sl
26 Tallguy14 : Do any pictures exist of the other 727 engine separation incidents? Or does anyone know the N-numbers of the planes involved? The information I've fou
27 Peterpuck : Quite a bit. As noticeable as some wing mounted twins I've flown.
28 YYZRWY23 : They probably did for one of two reasons: 1. Possibly run out of duty time by the time the 767 was acquired, fueled, loaded, and ready to depart. 2.
29 N1120A : As said, RB211. AA no longer has the subfleet of ex-TWA PW powered 757s. AFAIK, most if not all are with Delta now. Yes, though it wouldn't be mandat
30 Moose135 : Well, it was serious enough to warrant a diversion (apparently, from the news article, accompanied by emergency equipment on arrival) and a thread wi
31 Post contains links OPNLguy : Here's the National one... (It says MSY-MIA, but given the location of the engine loss (62nm SE of ELP) and the altitude (FL330, an eastbound FL), th
32 N1120A : Given the time, it may well have been something like LAX-MSY-MIA and they diverted to IAH.
33 OPNLguy : Could be, but they had a pretty good-sized operation at IAH... I was with Dobbs House then, and we catered them, and they had non-stops to/from those
34 Avconsultant : I think Piedmont had an engine fall off of a 737 in ORD in the 80's. I remember seeing pictures of this engine laying in a field at the end of the ru
35 OPNLguy : That's correct, a 737-200. USAir (then) also had one at PHL, and Delta had one at DFW. The underlying causes between the two aircraft types was diffe
36 AvConsultant : OPNLguy - Thanks for the details. I appreciate your post.
37 Okie : I think WN had an engine come partially separated from the wing at DAL on a 737-200 way back when. Somehow, I also remember a engine separation on a
38 OPNLguy : All the same single event, but it wasn't a complete engine separation. The aft conebolt did fail, but the back-up retaining strap functioned as desig
39 Coronado990 : I think a Nationwide Airlines (CE) B732 had this exact problem a couple years ago departing CPT.
40 Tiger119 : - OK, help me out here. Remember the story about the SW flight that was scheduled OAK - DEN (I think) - STL that returned back to OAK because some du
41 413x3 : who are you to say what should and should not be reported? an emergency landing is a news worthy event. the political sensationalism that is going on
42 OPNLguy : All diversions are not considered emergencies, yet the media often tend to default to calling them that. The way I look at it, there are: -Weather di
43 YYZRWY23 : OPNLguy puts it very well. Emergency landing are when the a/c is in a situation in which it needs to get on the ground immediately due to the safety
44 AAR90 : 62 minutes airborne time: 2243z - 2345z. SAN-DFW is a 2.5hr flight. "Major" maintenance base for 757s & a lot more flights = more options for getting
45 Platinumfoota : If the aerodynamics of an aircraft wing was compromised wouldnt the priority be to land as soon as possible? I never knew that pilots took into consi
46 HAWK21M : Looks like moisture induced delamination over time. -E4s I presume. Pls elaborate......Aircraft safety & age have no relation.....Its the quality of
47 YYZRWY23 : Does this mean the pilot, for example, at the diversion airport, call up AA Ops and say that? Do they lose pay for the remainder of their schedule th
48 OPNLguy : Please don't get the idea that this is necessarily a consideration in all cases (it's not), since some mechanical problems are more serious than othe
49 AAR90 : Depends upon the nature of the "emergency." In this case, I do not believe I would have declared an "emergency." Just because CFR equipment was calle
50 OPNLguy : I'll defer to AAR90 on this one, but given the limited degree of delamination of the slat in the photo and the fact that all the slats were still ext
51 Goldenshield : I'm just stating my opinion based on experience. I have been witness to things more critical than this, that have never been in the media. How about
52 AAR90 : Must not have been that big of a deal during the diverted SAN-DFW flight. The only maintenance action taken (so far) was to inspect the plane, apply "
53 Boeing767mech : They found the leading edge of the wing delam'd, they the changed the slat, threw it in the cargo pit for the ride to TUL. The leading edge repair is
54 HAWK21M : Was the LE of the wing damaged? regds MEL.
55 SlimShady : The fixed leading edge of the wing is also composite, and yes, can become damaged. Typically, the fixed leading edge of the wing, just outboard of th
56 AAR90 : ~$6,000 in fuel alone.
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