Trigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14097 times:
Cracked wing? Oh.. I love non-av reporters reporting on aviation. I can understand the concern and wanting to get it back on the ground, but I can see the stories coming out of this.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14049 times:
Two AA 757 diversions in one day. BVT saw a BOS-ORD diversion due to smoke in the cabin.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Plainplane From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 805 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13863 times:
Does this look consistent with a strike or a structural failure?
Judging by the picture it looks like it has RR engines.
Platinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13861 times:
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13783 times:
Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 7): Why divert to LAX? Why not back to SAN or keep going to PHX? Weather?
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5962 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13727 times:
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13646 times:
Tootallsd From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13522 times:
As a San Diegan, I would much prefer an emergency landing or routine diversion to LAX than SAN. If the aerodynamics of the plane were at all compromised, LAX has a much easier approach and room on the runway.
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3752 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13413 times:
Quoting Trigged (Reply 3): wing? Oh.. I love non-av reporters reporting on aviation. I can understand the concern and wanting to get it back on the ground, but I can see the stories coming out of this.
"Is the 757 too old to fly
Very true. When it was first reported and shown by the helicopter reporter, he said it was a 767 but it was very clear from the live shots from above it was a 752.
Are the 752s begining to have a lot more mechanicals now as time goes along? We all know how that goes as a/c get up there in the years and cycles.
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1590 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13189 times:
Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 15): As a San Diegan, I would much prefer an emergency landing or routine diversion to LAX than SAN. If the aerodynamics of the plane were at all compromised, LAX has a much easier approach and room on the runway.
You'll never see an emergency landing at San Diego because...
A) of the steep approach right over the city and...
B) it is a very busy one-runway airport. SAN would come to grinding halt real quick if it were to block runway access for what ever reason.
The flight reached Yuma before heading back to LAX. PHX & LAX were about equal distance so I guess they chose the one with a MX base.
Of course, AA did land a 727 here once with a missing engine that fell off somewhere near ELP on a scheduled flight from DFW-SAN. I'll never figure that one out.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13099 times:
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17): Of course, AA did land a 727 here once with a missing engine that fell off somewhere near ELP on a scheduled flight from DFW-SAN. I'll never figure that one out.
That one's easy---they didn't know they'd lost the engine, lost, that is, as in having physically departed the aircraft. They knew they'd had an engine failure/shutdown, and treated it as such, and the fact they were on a 727-200 gave (per 121.565) the captain the option of continuing to the intended destination (instead of landing at the nearest suitable airport), which they did. Only when they did a walkaround after landing at SAN did they observe the #3 engine was no longer attached to the aircraft.
DiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13062 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18): That one's easy---they didn't know they'd lost the engine, lost, that is, as in having physically departed the aircraft. They knew they'd had an engine failure/shutdown, and treated it as such, and the fact they were on a 727-200 gave (per 121.565) the captain the option of continuing to the intended destination (instead of landing at the nearest suitable airport), which they did. Only when they did a walkaround after landing at SAN did they observe the #3 engine was no longer attached to the aircraft.
Wow. That is utterly amazing.
My first thought was, didn't the plane's handling change when the engine fell off? But then, it would have been asymmetrical, anyway, because of the shutdown.
To bring it back on topic, if I were in an AA 757 in the southwest corner of the country and needed to make an emergency landing with compromised flight controls, there's no place I'd rather go than LAX. Well, maybe Edwards Air Force Base if things were really screwed up!
The AA engine separation event was the second of three such events (separation of #3 from ingested ice formed by a leaky front lav) that occured in the 1970s and 1980s. The first was a National (v1.0) 727-200 over New Mexico in the late 1970s, the AA event in the mid-1980s, and the NWA event over Georgia from the late-1980s pictured here:
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19): To bring it back on topic, if I were in an AA 757 in the southwest corner of the country and needed to make an emergency landing with compromised flight controls, there's no place I'd rather go than LAX. Well, maybe Edwards Air Force Base if things were really screwed up!
Well, it wasn't quite that adverse a situation (compomised flight controls), as what they appear to have had was some partial delamination of a L/E slat. It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.
Rikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1470 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11739 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20): It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.
I sent a message to "KCAL9", giving them the CORRECT information that has been posted here. I lightly scolded them on another case of sensationalized journalism.
Anyone have any theory on what would have caused the delamination? Corrosion would be my guess... maybe a wingstrike by some foreign object?
Cessna 172; King Air 100; Twin Otter; SAAB 340; Dash 7; Dash 8-100,-200,-300,-400; CRJ-200,700,900; ERJ-170; F-28; DC 9-
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11594 times:
Gotta love the media. This kind of damage is akin to scraping your knee while riding a bike; it SHOULD be a non-news-worthy event.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
TSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2884 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11295 times:
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19): My first thought was, didn't the plane's handling change when the engine fell off? But then, it would have been asymmetrical, anyway, because of the shutdown.
I'd guess because of decreased drag on the missing engine side, handling would be slightly less asymmetrical on a 727 with a missing engine than on one with an engine that's shut down... but then with all three engines mounted so close to each other, how asymmetrical could the thrust get on a 727 anyway?
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20): Well, it wasn't quite that adverse a situation (compomised flight controls), as what they appear to have had was some partial delamination of a L/E slat. It's not like the "crack in the wing" certain doom scenario that the story implied.
Agreed. It's not as if the entire slat fell off. Since the L/E slats appear to be deployed to an equal degree along the wing in the pax pic, it seems to still be functioning properly.
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 22): Gotta love the media. This kind of damage is akin to scraping your knee while riding a bike; it SHOULD be a non-news-worthy event.
Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 21): Anyone have any theory on what would have caused the delamination? Corrosion would be my guess... maybe a wingstrike by some foreign object?
Odd that it would delaminate on the trailing edge, though, and more on the outside than on the inside (as evidenced by what appears to be exposed foam filler).
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10504 times:
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 11): I believe AA has only RR-powered 757s now.
- I believe the 757s that came from TW had different power and were released.
Quoting Robt760 (Reply 14): Then they sub-ed a 763 for the continuation LAX-DFW.
- Even though the 757 and 767 have commonality I assume that AA had a different flight crew for the 767?
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
25 7673mech: Composites typically delaminate when moisture gets into voids - such as one caused by a stone chip. The fact that it is on the trailing edge of the sl
26 Tallguy14: Do any pictures exist of the other 727 engine separation incidents? Or does anyone know the N-numbers of the planes involved? The information I've fou
27 Peterpuck: Quite a bit. As noticeable as some wing mounted twins I've flown.
28 YYZRWY23: They probably did for one of two reasons: 1. Possibly run out of duty time by the time the 767 was acquired, fueled, loaded, and ready to depart. 2.
29 N1120A: As said, RB211. AA no longer has the subfleet of ex-TWA PW powered 757s. AFAIK, most if not all are with Delta now. Yes, though it wouldn't be mandat
30 Moose135: Well, it was serious enough to warrant a diversion (apparently, from the news article, accompanied by emergency equipment on arrival) and a thread wi
31 OPNLguy: Here's the National one... (It says MSY-MIA, but given the location of the engine loss (62nm SE of ELP) and the altitude (FL330, an eastbound FL), th
32 N1120A: Given the time, it may well have been something like LAX-MSY-MIA and they diverted to IAH.
33 OPNLguy: Could be, but they had a pretty good-sized operation at IAH... I was with Dobbs House then, and we catered them, and they had non-stops to/from those
34 Avconsultant: I think Piedmont had an engine fall off of a 737 in ORD in the 80's. I remember seeing pictures of this engine laying in a field at the end of the ru
35 OPNLguy: That's correct, a 737-200. USAir (then) also had one at PHL, and Delta had one at DFW. The underlying causes between the two aircraft types was diffe
36 AvConsultant: OPNLguy - Thanks for the details. I appreciate your post.
37 Okie: I think WN had an engine come partially separated from the wing at DAL on a 737-200 way back when. Somehow, I also remember a engine separation on a
38 OPNLguy: All the same single event, but it wasn't a complete engine separation. The aft conebolt did fail, but the back-up retaining strap functioned as desig
39 Coronado990: I think a Nationwide Airlines (CE) B732 had this exact problem a couple years ago departing CPT.
40 Tiger119: - OK, help me out here. Remember the story about the SW flight that was scheduled OAK - DEN (I think) - STL that returned back to OAK because some du
41 413x3: who are you to say what should and should not be reported? an emergency landing is a news worthy event. the political sensationalism that is going on
42 OPNLguy: All diversions are not considered emergencies, yet the media often tend to default to calling them that. The way I look at it, there are: -Weather di
43 YYZRWY23: OPNLguy puts it very well. Emergency landing are when the a/c is in a situation in which it needs to get on the ground immediately due to the safety
44 AAR90: 62 minutes airborne time: 2243z - 2345z. SAN-DFW is a 2.5hr flight. "Major" maintenance base for 757s & a lot more flights = more options for getting
45 Platinumfoota: If the aerodynamics of an aircraft wing was compromised wouldnt the priority be to land as soon as possible? I never knew that pilots took into consi
46 HAWK21M: Looks like moisture induced delamination over time. -E4s I presume. Pls elaborate......Aircraft safety & age have no relation.....Its the quality of
47 YYZRWY23: Does this mean the pilot, for example, at the diversion airport, call up AA Ops and say that? Do they lose pay for the remainder of their schedule th
48 OPNLguy: Please don't get the idea that this is necessarily a consideration in all cases (it's not), since some mechanical problems are more serious than othe
49 AAR90: Depends upon the nature of the "emergency." In this case, I do not believe I would have declared an "emergency." Just because CFR equipment was calle
50 OPNLguy: I'll defer to AAR90 on this one, but given the limited degree of delamination of the slat in the photo and the fact that all the slats were still ext
51 Goldenshield: I'm just stating my opinion based on experience. I have been witness to things more critical than this, that have never been in the media. How about
52 AAR90: Must not have been that big of a deal during the diverted SAN-DFW flight. The only maintenance action taken (so far) was to inspect the plane, apply "
53 Boeing767mech: They found the leading edge of the wing delam'd, they the changed the slat, threw it in the cargo pit for the ride to TUL. The leading edge repair is
54 HAWK21M: Was the LE of the wing damaged? regds MEL.
55 SlimShady: The fixed leading edge of the wing is also composite, and yes, can become damaged. Typically, the fixed leading edge of the wing, just outboard of th
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