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History Of MIA-LGW  
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5343 times:

From what I've gathered over reading MIA-related posts here, there was an MIA-LGW route in the 1980s and 1990s that changed hands several times.


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It seems that it started as an Air Florida route, then was passed on to Eastern, Continental, and finally, Delta, who discontinued the route in the mid-1990s.

Does anyone have any further information regarding schedules, frequencies, aircraft types used, and why the route was transferred so many times? Why did DL finally call it quits?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5314 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any further information regarding schedules, frequencies, aircraft types used,

When I was with QH, it ran with a DC-10-30, originally N1035F, and all-coach aircraft that was leased from Icelantic. Later, we acquired 3 more DC-10-30s from TransAmerica (a charter outfit), and N101TV, N102TV, and N103TV were had first class and coach sections. I still cringe when I think of how our marketing folks promoted the service "First" class was"Upper" Class", as we called it, which, of course, inferred that those in coach were......)

With the addition of the 3 aircraft, all 4 were used for other TATL routes, and they sometimes operated from Florida to EWR or JFK.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9944 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5304 times:

I know, for a time after the PA acquisition, DL operated it with an A310-300.


I wonder if maybe the route that DL was flying wasn't a PA route that they acquired?


DL had been in on the original competition for the route, but lost out to Air Florida.

[Edited 2009-08-22 07:36:49]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

You seem to have two separate route authorities confused. Two US carriers were authorised to serve MIA-London, so there were two independent route authorities. The authorities were specific to the Miami-London city-pair, but not airport specific.

One was originally held by Air Florida, then Eastern and then Continental. All three carriers had to fly to LGW because they were not authorised to fly to LHR. American Airlines bought the Miami-London route authority from Continental in 1990, at the same time that it purchased the Latin American routes from Eastern. EA and CO both shared a common parent company so it was part of the same deal. Initially, AA served MIA-LGW, beginning on July 1st 1990 because they were not authorised to serve Heathrow. However, when they gained that authority from TWA, the route was moved to over to Heathrow. This was exactly one year later on July 1st 1991.

The second MIA-London authority was held by PanAm, which used it to fly to LHR because they were an authorised carrier. The MIA-LGW authority used by Delta in the early 1990’s was the one that originally came from PanAm. UA and DL fought over who should get the authority, but DL won out in the end. DL had to fly to LGW because they were not authorised to serve LHR. Their MIA-LGW flights started in 1991 and lasted until the fall of 1994.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9944 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5261 times:



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 3):

Thanks, I thought maybe it was two separate authorities but I wasn't sure.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5256 times:

I flew MCO-MIA-LHR in 1994 with AA (a-300 to MIA and MD-11 to LHR). Lovely flights (even in Y). I seem to recall someone else had a flight MIA-LON (can't remember which airport) on the board while I was waiting...


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5236 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
When I was with QH, it ran with a DC-10-30, originally N1035F, and all-coach aircraft that was leased from Icelantic. Later, we acquired 3 more DC-10-30s from TransAmerica (a charter outfit), and N101TV, N102TV, and N103TV were had first class and coach sections. I still cringe when I think of how our marketing folks promoted the service "First" class was"Upper" Class", as we called it, which, of course, inferred that those in coach were......)

With the addition of the 3 aircraft, all 4 were used for other TATL routes, and they sometimes operated from Florida to EWR or JFK.

When was N109WA leased, and where did she fly?

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 3):
You seem to have two separate route authorities confused. Two US carriers were authorised to serve MIA-London, so there were two independent route authorities. The authorities were specific to the Miami-London city-pair, but not airport specific.

One was originally held by Air Florida, then Eastern and then Continental. All three carriers had to fly to LGW because they were not authorised to fly to LHR. American Airlines bought the Miami-London route authority from Continental in 1990, at the same time that it purchased the Latin American routes from Eastern. EA and CO both shared a common parent company so it was part of the same deal. Initially, AA served MIA-LGW, beginning on July 1st 1990 because they were not authorised to serve Heathrow. However, when they gained that authority from TWA, the route was moved to over to Heathrow. This was exactly one year later on July 1st 1991.

The second MIA-London authority was held by PanAm, which used it to fly to LHR because they were an authorised carrier. The MIA-LGW authority used by Delta in the early 1990’s was the one that originally came from PanAm. UA and DL fought over who should get the authority, but DL won out in the end. DL had to fly to LGW because they were not authorised to serve LHR. Their MIA-LGW flights started in 1991 and lasted until the fall of 1994.

What aircraft types did AA and DL use? I know QH and EA used the DC-10-30, and PA and CO used the 747-100/200.


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8426 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5210 times:
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I flew to MIA from LGW in 1992, DL99 & DL99, both flights operated by Tristar 500's, quite enyoyed the flights as I recall.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9944 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5176 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
What aircraft types did AA and DL use? I know QH and EA used the DC-10-30, and PA and CO used the 747-100/200.

As I mentioned above, DL initially, in '91, used the A310-300. They must have changed to the Tristar not long after.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5172 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
What aircraft types did AA and DL use?

AA always used the 767 for its MIA-LGW service. Here’s the schedules -:

Inaugural schedule (summer 1990), effective 1st July 1990
AA56 MIA 1715 LGW 0720 767
AA57 LGW 1000 MIA 1505 767

Winter 1990/1991 schedule
AA56 MIA 1735 LGW 0720 767
AA57 LGW 0940 MIA 1505 767

Final schedule (summer 1991), ends 31st June 1991
AA56 MIA 1755 LGW 0800 767
AA57 LGW 1000 MIA 1505 767

AA flew MIA-LGW again between May 1998 and May 1999 alongside their LHR services. Again the route was flown with a 767. Here’s the inaugural schedule -:

AA112 MIA 2020 LGW 1030 767
AA113 LGW 1215 MIA 1705 767



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8087 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5160 times:
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Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 3):
However, when they gained that authority from TWA, the route was moved to over to Heathrow. This was exactly one year later on July 1st 1991.

TWA never flew from Miami nonstop to LHR, Pan AM did. AA never paid TWA or Pan AM one cent for Miami to LHR authority, they got Miami to London authority from Eastern's Latin American route package. MIA was a LHR designated city, so when UA handed MIA to London authority back to PAN AM to switch the route to LGW as PAN AM operated the route for the summer of 1991. AA was able to get MIA to LHR because it purchased the TWA routes from LAX, BOS, JFK and ORD so it became one of the Heathrow four airlines, this allowed AA to claim MIA to LHR for free from teh DOT.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5155 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
TWA never flew from Miami nonstop to LHR, Pan AM did. AA never paid TWA or Pan AM one cent for Miami to LHR authority, they got Miami to London authority from Eastern's Latin American route package.

He meant that AA replaced TW as one of the two designated Bermuda II carriers allowed to fly into LHR.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any further information regarding schedules, frequencies, aircraft types used, and why the route was transferred so many times?

Air Florida was originally awarded the route by DOT, beating competing bids by other airlines including Eastern. Afterwards, EA always kept their eyes on the route waiting for a chance to get into the market.

EA purchased the MIA-London authority from Air Florida in the summer of 1984 for cash. Air Florida was in severe financial trouble, having filed for bankruptcy protection in July 1984 and subsequently suspended all operations. They needed cash to re-start operations, so sold their MIA-London route to Eastern, along with some other assets.

CO began operating MIA-LGW in spring 1987 after the route was transferred from Eastern by parent company Texas Air which acquired EA in November 1986. At the time, they said the route could be operated more cheaply by CO than EA. I believe EA had stopped operating MIA-LGW just prior to this transfer and the route had been dormant for a period.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
TWA never flew from Miami nonstop to LHR, Pan AM did. AA never paid TWA or Pan AM one cent for Miami to LHR authority, they got Miami to London authority from Eastern's Latin American route package. MIA was a LHR designated city, so when UA handed MIA to London authority back to PAN AM to switch the route to LGW as PAN AM operated the route for the summer of 1991. AA was able to get MIA to LHR because it purchased the TWA routes from LAX, BOS, JFK and ORD so it became one of the Heathrow four airlines, this allowed AA to claim MIA to LHR for free from teh DOT.

I meant they purchased the Heathrow designated carrier status from TWA, which allowed them to transfer their existing MIA-London service from LGW to LHR.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
He meant that AA replaced TW as one of the two designated Bermuda II carriers allowed to fly into LHR.

   Thanks!  

[Edited 2009-08-22 09:12:24]


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9944 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5088 times:



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 12):
Air Florida was originally awarded the route by DOT, beating competing bids by other airlines including Eastern. Afterwards, EA always kept their eyes on the route waiting for a chance to get into the market.

DL thought they had a pretty good chance at getting the route as they already had operations at LGW and had the equipment to fly it. Air Florida, once it was awarded to them, had to turn around and acquire the a/c to fly it.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5066 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
When was N109WA leased, and where did she fly?

I left in May of 1982, so it was sometime after that. I did use QH to jumpseat MIA-LGW-MIA, in 1983, I think, and this was the aircraft I was on for one of the flights.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8087 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4925 times:
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Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 12):
CO began operating MIA-LGW in spring 1987 after the route was transferred from Eastern by parent company Texas Air which acquired EA in November 1986. At the time, they said the route could be operated more cheaply by CO than EA. I believe EA had stopped operating MIA-LGW just prior to this transfer and the route had been dormant for a period.

Miami to London in 1986 became very crowded, Virgin Atlantic started their second US route to Miami at that time. There were four airlines flying to London from Miami. Eastern was the least desirable, even with all their FF in Miami because it flew to LGW and the other 3 were known for better service; even the BA and Pan AM of teh times.

Miami to London capacity doubled from 2 747 daily to 3 747's and a Dc-10-30 daily, yields went south. Virgin had its mojo and BA and PA had LHR, Eastern had to offer 2 for 1 in Business and First Class. The loses for Eastern must have been terrible because they discontinued service to LGW on 10/1/1986 after starting 6/1/1986. I am surprised EA neer tried Atlanta to LGW, I know they had a code-shared with Bcal. An ATL to LGW flight could be feed from so many more cities then a Miami to London flight, I think their would have been enough traffic via Atlanta for both Delta and Easern had they had each daily flights to LGW.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4911 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
Miami to London capacity doubled from 2 747 daily to 3 747's and a Dc-10-30 daily, yields went south.

Isn't this similar to the modern-day situation? We have 2x 744s on BA, 1x 346/744 on VS, and 1x 772 on AA.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8087 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4848 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 16):
Isn't this similar to the modern-day situation? We have 2x 744s on BA, 1x 346/744 on VS, and 1x 772 on AA.

Three airlines not four, and AA does have 2 777 some days. Today all flights are to LHR, none to LGW. There is more service to Europe from Miami today, back in 1986 there was no Air France to CDG(they flew to PAP), no SWISS and no Alitalia. IB, LH and BA were the big European airlines to Miami back in 1986.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4793 times:



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 9):
AA always used the 767 for its MIA-LGW service.

Yes sir, now Heathrow is another story. MIA-LHR was an MD11 for years. Now if we could only get MIA-BCN. That would be a beautiful thing!



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4182 times:



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 18):
Now if we could only get MIA-BCN. That would be a beautiful thing!

AA's very conservative when it comes to opening new routes, so I'd say we'd be more likely to see MIA-BCN on IB or UX. Same with AA's missed opportunity on MIA-MXP, which is being restarted by AZ... eventually.


User currently offlineDivemaster08 From Cayman Islands, joined Jul 2008, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

I remember flying AA on the MD-11 into LHR, and never knew they had LGW! I know BA use to fly one daily with the B742 and it was dropped not too long ago (i think when the B742s were retired- I could be majorly wrong here tho!).

It was a sad day tho when the MD-11 left AA on that route. She was such a great bird! Although i always seem to recall the flights were a lot longer back then also!! now seems 9hours is a long flight from LHR, back in the day, that was the norm (normally a lot longer!)

I wish actually tho that AA would bring back the MIA-MAN flight as she was great and always busy the days i took her.....

Well maybe AA will finally get a 2nd flight into LHR...... maybe!



My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3978 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
When was N109WA leased, and where did she fly?

I believe it served the route on wet-lease to QH for the 1983-84 seasons, up to the point where EA took over. I flew on it in 08/83.

rj



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
User currently offlineSWABrian From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3864 times:



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 3):
The second MIA-London authority was held by PanAm, which used it to fly to LHR because they were an authorised carrier. The MIA-LGW authority used by Delta in the early 1990%u2019s was the one that originally came from PanAm. UA and DL fought over who should get the authority, but DL won out in the end. DL had to fly to LGW because they were not authorised to serve LHR. Their MIA-LGW flights started in 1991 and lasted until the fall of 1994.

Oddly enough, DL didn't acquire PAs last European route, MIA-CDG. PA continued to operate that flight at CDG (even though the rest of the PA Paris flights moved to ORY)


User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1592 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Eastern started its Golden Wings service between Miami and London-Gatwick on 15 July 1985. I don't believe the route was transferred to Continental until late 1988 but I can't find the exact date.

User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3693 times:



Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 23):
Eastern started its Golden Wings service between Miami and London-Gatwick on 15 July 1985. I don't believe the route was transferred to Continental until late 1988 but I can't find the exact date.

My very first trip to the US was on CO LGW-MIA late August 1988.


25 Viscount724 : I don't think anyone has mentioned the MIA-LHR service operated by the original National Airlines. I have forgotten how they were able to operate that
26 MAH4546 : There is a second flight on TuThFr. With AA/BA ATI, I expect we will see 28 weekly, but I wonder if the fourth daily will be on AA or BA. There are e
27 JohnClipper : I believe they were awarded the route before Bermuda II and the 2 US carrier rule.
28 Sflaflight : Where was that at JFK? I can tell you that for as many times as I've flown MIA-MXP post non stop service, I never made a go of using AA because the c
29 MAH4546 : With the rest of the re-check desks. The reason being that AA was selling MXP-MIA tickets with the second leg on JFK-MIA flight that departed only 50
30 Sflaflight : Very interesting! Thanks for that tid-bit! I never paid attention to the inbound US schedule. 50 minutes is a short time to connect. At least AA was
31 BCAL : I believe that the US/UK governments agreed an extension of the original Bermuda agreement whereby direct non-stop flights were permitted between Mia
32 Jfk777 : The Bermuda II wasn't until 1977, there was no two airline limit at LHR until 1977, when Jimmy Carter had to make a BAD deal so his friends in Georgi
33 Gte439u : What type of passengers drive the MIA-MXP market? Are these customers generally in transit to Latin America?
34 MAH4546 : Fashion industry, boat manufacturing industry, cruise ship industry and banking, in addition to being a large VFR market due to the large Italian com
35 Sflaflight : That is correct. Most italians in South Florida are first generation (like me). Unlike in the north where the italian community is now hird and even
36 MAH4546 : Very true, and the rate the community is growing, Miami is quickly on its way to having the second largest Italian-born community in the United State
37 Jfk777 : Miami to Milan is simiar to Munich and Zurich, SWISS makesa fortune out of MIA as I am sure Air France and Lufthansa do. Italians have developed a lo
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