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Eastern Air Lines "Stretch" DC-8s?  
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Posted (4 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 9397 times:

From the late 1960s to the early 1970s Eastern Air Lines (EAL) operated both DC-8-61s and DC-8-63PFs...

What were some of the routes on which EAL's "stretch" DC-8s were regularly operated?

Why did EAL opt for the PF version of the -63? (a passenger version with reinforced floor for easy future conversion to a freighter)

Given the short time they served with EAL, were their DC-8-61/-63PFs acquired as an interim aircraft until L-1011s began arriving?

IIRC, EAL bought at least some of their "stretch 'eights" in anticipation of route awards that didn't happen ...if I am recalling correctly, what were those routes?

Answers to any or all of the above will be much appreciated!

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9317 times:

The DC8 stretch aircraft were used on both domestic and Caribbean routes and Mexico. The major trunk routes NE -Florida and to the West Coast, plus San Juan. They were also used extensively for military charters to Vietnam, especially the DC8-63s.

The DC8-63s (4 of them as as I recall) were acquired in anticipation of Pacific route awards which were not successful. They were always used as passenger aircraft. I never even realized that they had strengthened floors for conversion to cargo.

They were great aircraft. Strong and long range and reliable.

I worked there for 23 years.


User currently offlineYankeejuliet From Jamaica, joined Sep 2008, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9290 times:
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EAL opt for DC-8-63PF in anticipation of US military contracts of which many did not materialise. A high resale value was realised in the early 1970s because of high demand
coupled with scarce availability amongst other airlines at the time
Stretch eights operated between JFK-MIA JFK-LAX MIA-LAX JFK-ATL MIA-ATL JFK-SFO as
their main routes

L1011s did replace stretch eights on main trunk routes because of their larger capacity to carry 300 PAX + freight also the DC-8s could be sold at preminum prices.

Of the seven DC-8-61s in the fleet, two were sold to JM in March 1973. namely 45912/315 N8771 which became 6Y-JGH, 45894 which became 6Y-JGG serving KIN-JFK, MBJ-JFK KIN-MBJ-MIA and weekly charters to LHR and FRA with a refueling stop in gander. These charters were discontinued when the "Flagship" DC-8-62 ( 6Y-JII) arrived to operate these European services non-stop.


User currently offlineSparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9264 times:
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There were 6 -63PFs purchased to operate routes in the Pacific.These routes were awarded to Eastern,but The incoming Nixon administartion did not aprove them and they eventually went to AA.The DC863s were operated along side the -61s and on Military contracts untill replaced by 1011s in the early 70s.One N8759 passed on to Arrow and was lost at Gander in 1985 with loss of all on board.
Sparky


User currently offlineMaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9220 times:

Eastern never flew DC-8s between JFK, LAX and SFO because they didn't have the routes
when the DC-8 was in service.

I flew my last trip as a DC-8 captain for Arrow Air in N8759 a few weeks before the crash in Gander. I had the FE take my picture in the left seat for posterity - it gives me chills to look at it today. I knew the entire flight crew very well, and Captain John Griffin was an excellent airman and meticulous individual. I never bought the ice on the wing probable cause that the Canadian board came up with - half of them disagreed and felt other factors were at work, including an on board explosion.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8940 times:



Quoting Maxpower1954 (Reply 4):
Eastern never flew DC-8s between JFK, LAX and SFO because they didn't have the routes when the DC-8 was in service.

This is my understanding as well, based on Eastern timetables from the years their 'Eights were in service. Might the member who posted JFK-LAX/SFO have actually meant ATL-LAX?

IIRC, SFO was added to EAL's route map sometime after or just before deregulation ...after their "Eights were gone ...whereas ATL-LAX (non-stop) had been awarded to EAL in ~1969, initially flown by DC-8 equipment; unfortunately timetables of the time that show equipment types do not differentiate between "short" and "stretch" 'Eights.

To clarify the meaning of the suffix "PF" ...whereas some DC-8 versions could be converted back and forth between pax and cargo configurations or as combis, the PFs of EAL were delivered (and operated) as pure pax aircraft -- conversion to freighter configuration would require a "surgical" process ...one that was already "~half done" inasmuch as the reinforced main cabin floor required for freighter operations was already in place, having been factory-installed before delivery to EAL.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8919 times:

EA also flew the DC8-61/3 on EWR-MIA for a short time.

User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8718 times:



Quoting Sparky35805 (Reply 3):
There were 6 -63PFs purchased to operate routes in the Pacific.These routes were awarded to Eastern,but The incoming Nixon administartion did not aprove them and they eventually went to AA.

Just to clarify: The South Pacific routes were originally awarded to Continental in the last days of the Johnson administration. Incoming presidents had 30 days to rescind route decisions of their predecessors prior to deregulation, and when President Nixon took office, he rescinded Johnson's award of the routes to CO.

The CAB felt it made the most sense to award the routes to CO. Nixon wanted to award the routes to EA, allegedly because EA was thought to be a "Republican" airline, while CO was considered a "Democratic" airline. The CAB and Nixon ultimately compromised by awarding the routes to AA - in part to offset AA's bitterness that the Pacific routes AA really wanted, LAX/SFO-HNL-Tokyo, were given to Northwest Orient instead.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineEADC8 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8378 times:

Did EA ever use the 8's btw JFK and HOU?. My first flight was on a EA DC8 back in 1968 and I believe this is what I was told by my parents.


721 722 731 732 733 73G 741 742 744 752 753 762 764 DC8 DC9 MD80 DC10 L1011 A300 A319 A320 A332
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3010 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8325 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 5):
unfortunately timetables of the time that show equipment types do not differentiate between "short" and "stretch" 'Eights.

The -61 and the -63 are the same length. It's the -62 that was the short one in the 60 series.

Unless you were referring to an older variant...?



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8277 times:

Eastern had 17 -61s and 6 -63s. The 61s were used primarily to Florida and San Juan and the 63s for MAC flights across the Pacific. West Coast flights were normally flown by 727-100s until the advent of the L-1011s.

User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8250 times:
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For a short time, the stretch 8s were flown ATL-RIC-EWR. Twice when I flew this route in 1973, a DC8-21 was used. It was N8612 both times. The flight number was EA 626.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7960 times:



Quoting EADC8 (Reply 8):
Did EA ever use the 8's btw JFK and HOU?. My first flight was on a EA DC8 back in 1968 and I believe this is what I was told by my parents.

JFK-HOU was one of EA's earlier DC-8-20 routes, so yes, they did fly the -20s JFK-HOU. I don't know whether they still flew DC-8s JFK-HOU in 1968, or whether the -61s were ever used on the route.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4976 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

EA also flew the DC-8 on the MEX-MSY-ATL-DCA route.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7573 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 5):
To clarify the meaning of the suffix "PF" ...whereas some DC-8 versions could be converted back and forth between pax and cargo configurations or as combis, the PFs of EAL were delivered (and operated) as pure pax aircraft --

CP Air bought one of EA's -63PFs and operated it from 1972 to 1981. I remember my first flight on that aircraft (I worked for CP then) from YVR to HNL and noticing that it had a different interior layout than CP's factory-delivered DC-8-63s. It was named "Empress of Athens" at CP.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 9):
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 5):
unfortunately timetables of the time that show equipment types do not differentiate between "short" and "stretch" 'Eights.

The -61 and the -63 are the same length. It's the -62 that was the short one in the 60 series.

Unless you were referring to an older variant...?

EA was still operating their original DC-8-21s alongside the -61s and -63s..


User currently offlineMaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 7473 times:

And Eastern operated three DC-8-51s from 1964 to 1971, with a couple of DC-8-55s leased from Capitol 1967-68.

User currently offlineFerrydxer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7273 times:



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 13):
EA also flew the DC-8 on the MEX-MSY-ATL-DCA route.

Funny I thought nobody operated 707's or DC-8's into DCA because of the short runway and the noise thus the impetus for building IAD.

This post reminds me that I have that Minicraft EA DC8-63 that needs to be built.



Government: FUBAR on everything we touch!
User currently offlineEastern747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7076 times:

The Stretch 8"s were awsome. I worked at HQ in Mia (Bldg 18) and had to go on many trips to NYC. Before the days FF, when F/C WAS FC, my business passes always got me up front. To stand in the asile you could actually see see the far rear cabin move around. That was the days of the famous restaurant flights. You choose your entrees before boarding. I think we used the stretch 8 to ACA , ORD and SJU.

User currently offlineMiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Easte...d=882a7238543510e7313ed7b3d63691f1

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21503 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7008 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
The CAB felt it made the most sense to award the routes to CO. Nixon wanted to award the routes to EA, allegedly because EA was thought to be a "Republican" airline, while CO was considered a "Democratic" airline. The CAB and Nixon ultimately compromised by awarding the routes to AA - in part to offset AA's bitterness that the Pacific routes AA really wanted, LAX/SFO-HNL-Tokyo, were given to Northwest Orient instead.

Yes, the politics of regulated industry. And some younger people wonder why many of us are so opposed to "re-regulating" the industry for "the good of the people." Because you get garbage like this.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6983 times:



Quoting Ferrydxer (Reply 16):
I thought nobody operated 707's or DC-8's into DCA

You thought right.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

Right you are Timz.....nobody flew the diesal 8 into National(DCA).
EA did run the stretch 8 into DTW from MIA in May of 69, EA952.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4976 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

Some of the information on the internet, including the NTSB report indicated DCA. While a few others indicated IAD.

[Edited 2009-08-26 18:29:45]


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4976 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6763 times:

Some of the info indicates that the flight was headed to DCA, while other info indicated IAD.
Always check two or three sources, huh?



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineFlightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6759 times:



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 22):
Oh yeah? Then read this!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_304

I went to school with the Captain of this flights son.

I also checked another source other than Wiki. The sources that list this flights final destination all state DCA.

Not true. Flight Safety database shows the destination as IAD. No DC-8s were sked to DCA.
Sources:
» ICAO Aircraft Accident Digest No.16, Circular 82-AN/69 (39-60)



A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
25 Post contains links Viscount724 : Those sources are wrong. The flight's routing was MEX-MSY-ATL-IAD-JFK. Four-engine commercial jets never used DCA, although I believe one pre-inaugur
26 Timz : It says that EA 304 accident was in 1964-- no jets of any kind were scheduled into DCA until April 1966.
27 Type-Rated : Oh well, thanks for the correction. You learn something every day.
28 Isitsafenow : Viscount724 and Timz.... We dinosaurs know better about first generation four-holers "into" DCA, MDW and LGA, don't we? safe
29 Timz : Don't forget SAC-- it got WA 720Bs for a year or two, and its runway is shorter than DCA and post-1966 LGA. MDW too, I think.
30 MasseyBrown : Braniff had four -62's for South America. Did Eastern get these when they bought the routes?
31 Viscount724 : Braniff actually had 10 DC-8-62s. No, Eastern never operated a DC-8 after the last of their own DC-8s were retired in 1974. I don't think their deal
32 ABQopsHP : Anyone familiar with the movie Airport 75? I am certain that is an EA DC8 in the background when they are doing the airport scene at SLC. Its in the n
33 Maxpower1954 : I think that was filmed at Mojave. It was an EX - Eastern DC-8-21, IIRC.
34 Post contains images TymnBalewne : Here's an old pic I dug up... can anyone identify the airport it was taken at? (I know).
35 WA707atMSP : SJU?
36 TymnBalewne : Great guess but no. The airport is not in a US territory or state. C.
37 Sparky35805 : Mexico City maybe?Its an online city with Eastern ground equipment. Sparky
38 TymnBalewne : Another excellent guess! But no, I've never been to Mexico. It's an airport that is named for, as of 2007, a local politician. In a previous life the
39 Maxpower1954 : Guam A.B Wom Pat international - Agana back when the picture was taken.[Edited 2009-08-31 21:22:07][Edited 2009-08-31 21:23:16]
40 Maxpower1954 : Oops, I forgot Guam is a U.S. territory. Second guess - L.F. Wade airport, Hamilton, Bermuda.
41 TymnBalewne : DING DING DING!!! Yes. L. F. Wade was known as "Kindley Field" when it was a military base. Kindley Field was named for a WWI aviator named... Lt. Fi
42 Milesrich : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern...t_304 Wikipedia, as one should know, has some inaccurate information. In 1964, in fact until A
43 Maxpower1954 : Where can I pick up my prize? What I did was look at a 1972 Eastern route map, since the company GSE was a big clue. Kindley Field Bermuda seemed log
44 Isitsafenow : My hero!! He always comes riddin' in with the right stuff! Sorry I left you out of post 28, M.R. I should know better. Happy flyin'... safe
45 TymnBalewne : You can pick up your prize at: 10 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY But you need to be there before 1975. I thought it funny that Kindley Field was nam
46 Tango-Bravo : As has been duly noted already, Eastern never operated DC-8-62s...nor did any ex-Braniff aircraft come with the ex-BN South America routes picked up
47 Flightopsguy : I still have one of these Entex models in the box! Talk about old geezers...I used to ride my bike along the GW parkway and picnic near DCA back in t
48 Maxpower1954 : If you had TWO of those Entex 1/100 scale DC-8-62s, you could kit-bash it easily into a correct EAL DC-8-63. The Minicraft Eastern DC-8-63 is supposed
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