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CO50 CLE-EWR-FRA Beginning 01 Nov  
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Beginning 01nov, CO will offer "through flight service" CLE-FRA, as it takes CO50 from IAH (which has an equipment change at EWR) and moves it to CLE (which will still has an equip change at EWR). This coincides with IAH getting non-stop service (CO46) beginning the same day. The CLE flight would be 738 to EWR, then a 764 to FRA. (Return flight would be the opposite, as CO51.)

I know 'through flight service'--when you change planes in another city--is not really different than a connection (and you can still miss your connection even though you're already "on the flight"), but, unlike CLE-PVG, could this be one small step towards true non-stop CLE-FRA service? Its timed well with CO entry into Star, though I know equipment issues remain, including the lack of available wide body equipment to use and the question of whether a 757 could fly CLE-FRA in winter.

[Edited 2009-08-24 12:09:38]

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEXCOASA1982 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

How will the affect CO51 EWR-IAH-EZE?

Nevermind, I see it will be CO53 LAX-IAH-EZE.

[Edited 2009-08-24 11:41:52]

User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5487 times:



Quote:
How will the affect CO51 EWR-IAH-EZE?

flight number change from 51 to 53.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Could we see an upgrade in aircraft from the 764 to the 772 on the EWR-FRA route? I flew the route(EWR-FRA-EWR) about a month ago and it was fully booked, granted it is the summer season. But, since it is there soon to be partners hub and they will be funneling their connecting passengers going to onward destinations in Europe,Africa,Asia, wouldn't it make sense? Could we see maybe a second daily EWR-FRA??

User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

Does through service 'guarantee' customers will make their connection?

Unless it does, this seems to me like a typical business scheme that benefits the business but can only let down the customer-- once they realize it's a gimmick.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5039 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 3):
Could we see an upgrade in aircraft from the 764 to the 772 on the EWR-FRA route?

EWR-FRA has in the past been flown on the 772, especially doing EWR-FRA-IAH-EZE. Now since the 772s are a bit busy, it may be a while. Furthermore the 772 schedules will be tight starting this winter when they start getting the new BF seat.

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 3):
Could we see maybe a second daily EWR-FRA??

If they don't add a 2nd flight using a 752, then look for CO to funnel pax to LH flights to FRA, MUC, and DUS.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5025 times:



Quote:
Could we see an upgrade in aircraft from the 764 to the 772 on the EWR-FRA route? I flew the route(EWR-FRA-EWR) about a month ago and it was fully booked, granted it is the summer season. But, since it is there soon to be partners hub and they will be funneling their connecting passengers going to onward destinations in Europe,Africa,Asia, wouldn't it make sense? Could we see maybe a second daily EWR-FRA??

I'd rather see one 764 CLE-FRA and one 764 EWR-FRA. Remember, when the 764 was full it was also carrying IAH pax who will now have their own flight. But for the new connections with Star Alliance, it would make sense to distribute the connecting pax through both CLE and EWR hubs. Those destined for CLE or EWR themselves could take the direct, but all others could choose between the two cities for transfers, mitigating congestion at EWR.

Quote:
Does through service 'guarantee' customers will make their connection?

probably not. I know UA doesn't honor it. I've seen the "second half "of a UA flight leave before the first half--which was running late--arrived.


User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

CO flies EWR-FRA as CO #50 on a 767-400ER now currently. How is this news? They also do 6x daily CLE-EWR.

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 3):
Could we see an upgrade in aircraft from the 764 to the 772 on the EWR-FRA route? I

I would see CO #46/47 get a 77E on it before EWR.

CO has already upgraded it from a 762 to a 764ER.

Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
but, unlike CLE-PVG, could this be one small step towards true non-stop CLE-FRA service?

Also if CLE can't support CDG then what makes you think they can support FRA?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4950 times:



Quote:
Also if CLE can't support CDG then what makes you think they can support FRA?

Who's to say it couldn't? But with CO losing the feed/distribution from AF, combined with the global recession, the route was discontinued. FRA would be operated in a stronger economy and have feed from LH.


User currently offlineIAHcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3469 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4845 times:
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Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 4):
Does through service 'guarantee' customers will make their connection?

'Guarantee' ? Nope. As with all such things, holds will depend on the number of people involved and the lenth of the hold. The higher the number, the longer a hold is possible, if at all. The 'second' half of the thou flight will be advanced out with a modified flight number (for ATC puposees only... 5000 is added to the existing flight number.. CO50 becomes 5050, etc)



Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Thank you, IAHcsr, very well explained. As I suspected, a through flight number is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2726 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4816 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 6):
I'd rather see one 764 CLE-FRA and one 764 EWR-FRA. Remember, when the 764 was full it was also carrying IAH pax who will now have their own flight. But for the new connections with Star Alliance, it would make sense to distribute the connecting pax through both CLE and EWR hubs. Those destined for CLE or EWR themselves could take the direct, but all others could choose between the two cities for transfers, mitigating congestion at EWR.

I don't think you're going to see a 764 ever CLE-FRA. It looks like a 752 might not have the legs as the distance is almost 200 mile over the defacto max range of EWR-TXL.
Maybe a 762 in the future once the 787s arrive. While CLE can be a reliever for EWR, with Star, one might expect CLE may be downplayed as it's between ORD and EWR geographically.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4796 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 6):
But for the new connections with Star Alliance, it would make sense to distribute the connecting pax through both CLE and EWR hubs.

I disagree. Most of the pax that could be funneled through CLE on a hypothetical CLE-FRA can be funneled through ORD, IAD, EWR, or YYZ instead with comparable or superior schedules, and the Transatlantic Joint Venture will provide a financial incentive to do just that. Personally, I think CO would be better off reinforcing EWR-FRA to 3-4x daily with Lufty.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

I flew on both legs of CO50 last winter when I flew IAH-EWR-FRA. It seems that even CO would get mixed up with two different flights with different equipment would have the same flight number. I booked the flight on continental.com and even though the website mentions an equipment change, it only allowed me to pick 1 seat which was the 752 flight from IAH to EWR instead of one for the 772 flight from EWR to FRA as well. I called their call center and had to have someone assign me a seat.


"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

It's but a number with nothing to back it up. Until CLE sees a nonstop with their own metal, it doesn't count, nor does it harken to anything. How about baby steps, maybe getting AZO back?


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User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4508 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
unlike CLE-PVG, could this be one small step towards true non-stop CLE-FRA service?



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 8):
Who's to say it couldn't? But with CO losing the feed/distribution from AF, combined with the global recession, the route was discontinued. FRA would be operated in a stronger economy and have feed from LH.



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 11):
While CLE can be a reliever for EWR, with Star, one might expect CLE may be downplayed as it's between ORD and EWR geographically.

Also close to DTW. The CLE-FRA nonstop would probably compete with the LH DTW-FRA service which is well estabished. May not go down well with LH which is one of the biggest player in the Star alliance.


User currently offlineRampguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3860 times:



Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
Also if CLE can't support CDG then what makes you think they can support FRA?

Can you please get off the O/D kick? If enough pax can fill up the plane and the flight is profitable, why does it matter what city they originate at, whether it be Cleveland or Beirut, Mississippi?


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3848 times:



Quoting Rampguy (Reply 16):
Can you please get off the O/D kick? If enough pax can fill up the plane and the flight is profitable, why does it matter what city they originate at, whether it be Cleveland or Beirut, Mississippi?

Why? O&D traffic is typically the most lucrative traffic for an airline, and CO in particular has premised its longhaul route network on catering first and foremost to O&D traffic flows.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2953 times:



Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
Also if CLE can't support CDG then what makes you think they can support FRA

Believe me CLE supported the CDG route!, It had better loads the LGW most of the time. I dont know what kind of yields it had but the loads were good.



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