Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WN At ATL-Why Not Fulton County?  
User currently offlineCaleb1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 372 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7599 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Any information concerning whether Southwest has considered serving Atlanta-Fulton County Airport? Might this be a better alternative to serving ATL directly?

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

I think the more interesting question is "why not ATL?" WN is past the secondary airport strategy, and they could get a gate or two at ATL through Air21.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7568 times:

Not to mention Fulton has pretty much ZERO facilities to support commercial service much less 737s.

It's close but it still isn't Atlanta. You'll find that Georgia on a whole is a very different market compared to many other states with multiple airports. ATL isn't a matter of if but when for WN.

The problem with the when is gate space. They will be pretty much relegated to concourse E. There is no space T-D. Even E, rent is expensive and is all common use. DL's international Ops is not what it was 4 years ago. Back then, they would have had a fighting chance; at least to get their foot in the door but now there is simply no room, even on E.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFxra From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

Atlanta and Fulton County know who pay the bills. The largest employers in the area are at ATL in the form of Delta and Airtran. Even is SWA wanted to serve FTY, they'd have an uphill battle getting it through the system or getting the city/county to upgrade FTY of passenger usage. It'd kind of be like Pepsi asking for tax breaks and concessions to build a plant in Atlanta, the city that gave the world Coca Cola.


Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7372 times:

Southwest will eventually serve ATL that is something that can happen but they will be relegated to at most 2 gates. The common use gates on D will be very hard for them to use if FL or DL or both bump up flying by a fraction. E is out of the question as its packed with 777 767 757 and 747's for most of the usuable day. Now if they wanted to be creative they could offer night serivce meaning all there ops were at night then they would have basically free reign of E but who wants to fly from Atl to where ever at 1am when you can do it in the daytime on FL DL AA UA US F9 YX CO AS(soon).


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

Southwest tried to start service to Charlie Brown a number of years ago and the NIMBYs went berserk.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7349 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):

I think the more interesting question is "why not ATL?" WN is past the secondary airport strategy, and they could get a gate or two at ATL through Air21.

A gate. I be;lieve the City could make them share a CUTE gate with FL too......thats why WN isn't in ATL.

Where is FTY? I have never heard of it. I thought he was talking about PDK.



yep.
User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7340 times:

FTY is close to Six Flags off I-20 West.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7329 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
A gate.

Why not 2?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFxra From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7265 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
Where is FTY? I have never heard of it. I thought he was talking about PDK.

FTY is right of I-20 west of the city, just past I-285.

I don't know how bad the NIMBY's are out there, last time I was out there that area has really populated up from just a few years ago.. PDK is on the North East side of the city, of I-85 just inside the I-285 loop. The NIMBY's there are ruthless, they'd shut the airport down if they could (nevermind it was there before they moved in).



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7211 times:



Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
Now if they wanted to be creative they could offer night serivce meaning all there ops were at night then they would have basically free reign of E but who wants to fly from Atl to where ever at 1am when you can do it in the daytime on FL DL AA UA US F9 YX CO AS(soon).

Rumor has it, that except for severely delayed flights, all of the birds in WN's fleet turn to pumpkins promptly at midnight Central Time...  Wink (WN does not do scheduled redeyes...)



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

LOL Pumpkins? LOL that would be cool to see. In BWI all the SWA turning into Pumpkins.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineFerrydxer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6661 times:

I always thought Dobbins ARB would make a good second ATL area airport with airline service with the more affluent northern suburbs in the area, but affluence tends to sprout NIMBYS.


Government: FUBAR on everything we touch!
User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

IMHO, the main reason besides Delta's superhub at ATL that Atlanta hasn't had a second airport (to date) is that ATL itself is very centrally located within the metro area with respect to the way the interstates are oriented. The airport is located just south of the intersection of all three interstates (I-20, I-75, and I-85) that run through the city, AND it's easily accessible from I-285, which runs around the city. Therefore, it is relatively easy to access from anywhere. Adding an airport anywhere else than central wouldn't be as centrally located, not a huge deal until you factor in traffic, which is the second worst in the country.

User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

Quoting Fxra (Reply 3):
Atlanta and Fulton County know who pay the bills. The largest employers in the area are at ATL in the form of Delta and Airtran. Even is SWA wanted to serve FTY, they'd have an uphill battle getting it through the system or getting the city/county to upgrade FTY of passenger usage. It'd kind of be like Pepsi asking for tax breaks and concessions to build a plant in Atlanta, the city that gave the world Coca Cola.

Well, I know most would like to believe that but it's the fiscal responsibility of elected city officials to not refuse a new company from doing business in Atlanta unless they can prove beyond resonable doubt that it would hurt many different things. I am sure there is some loyalty in city hall, matter of fact I am positive of that. But they would be doing the public a dis-service if they just said to WN, "We appreciate your intrest, but this is DL land and we would like to keep it that way." Would it generate waves down there? Without a doubt it would. It would turn that market on its side.

FWIW, the actual DL HQ resides in a community called Hapeville, Georgia. It is it's own city with a mayor and council. That is where the majority of property taxes, etc. from DL are paid I would assume.

An article in a recent Sunday Edition of the Atlanta Journal Constitution talked about Atlanta-Fulton County Airport and it's disrepair. The way the article spoke about how they were not going to invest in many improvements there. I may actually have my Atlanta area airports mixed up here, but I believe it was this particular airport that was the center of the article. Atlanta, the city, hasn't got much money at the moment and they have far bigger fish to fry at the moment. One being a constant and reliable means of getting water to the city in the dry months. That is still a huge concern they are having to address.

[Edited 2009-08-26 08:04:34]


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6471 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
Why not 2?

Why would they give them 2? Where will they get two at? IIRC AS is having to share a gate with F9 and YX. If they have to give WN space it will only be one gate. Thats about all the city can give(and IMO it would be more like 1/2 or 1/4 of a gate.)

Quoting Fxra (Reply 9):
PDK is on the North East side of the city, of I-85 just inside the I-285 loop. The NIMBY's there are ruthless, they'd shut the airport down if they could (nevermind it was there before they moved in).

Right. No airline will fly to PDX. Those people up there are nuts.



yep.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6446 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
Why would they give them 2? Where will they get two at?

I know of no situation where an airline has requested two gates under Air21 and not gotten them. Do you?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRampguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6416 times:



Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
The common use gates on D will be very hard for them to use if FL or DL or both bump up flying by a fraction. E is out of the question as its packed with 777 767 757 and 747's for most of the usuable day

Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l wouldn't be so congested if DL would take some of those flights and distribute them to the other hubs. I'll bet no one at DL ever thought about doing that.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6395 times:



Quoting Rampguy (Reply 17):
Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l wouldn't be so congested if DL would take some of those flights and distribute them to the other hubs. I'll bet no one at DL ever thought about doing that.

CVG is gone. JFK is pretty ramped up. More so than what it was just 4 years ago. SLC is a pretty "funny" market. It will only support certain routes for obvious reasons. Even with that, we have seen new int'l service from there. DTW and MSP has its fair share of int'l OPS. LAX, well, not so much. Maybe 4 or 5 years from now.

ATL makes DL money. It is mega hub as many say but it works. Less not forget Operation Clockwork. Around that time when DFW was drawn down, ATL saw its highest number of departures and arrivals in history when DL's flights swelled past 1,000/day. It is full but there is room...just not for other carriers.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6340 times:



Quoting Rampguy (Reply 17):
Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l wouldn't be so congested if DL would take some of those flights and distribute them to the other hubs. I'll bet no one at DL ever thought about doing that.

Why would it be in DL's interest to accommodate WN in ATL?


User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2614 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6305 times:



Quoting Ferrydxer (Reply 12):
I always thought Dobbins ARB would make a good second ATL area airport with airline service with the more affluent northern suburbs in the area, but affluence tends to sprout NIMBYS.

Dobbins will not be the ATL reliever. The FAA hates the the idea of civilian traffic at that airport. The area around it has been built too close to the runways. There has already been one accident that I can remember of a jet taking out an apartment building back in the 80's or early 90's.

Now McCollumb (sp) farther up in Cobb might work. Also if Athens ever extended the runway it could work.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

I think a reliever airport will come to Atlanta at some point but the city and airport authority has already made it clear that they currently have no plans of bringing such a project through the pipe. At least not for another 10-15 years. They are focused on putting money into ATL. Re-surfacing all the runways, completing the international terminal (let's hope) and also completing the new domestic terminal. The 5th runway is complete (obviously), the consolidated rental park is near completion on top of the rail service to an from. Hopefully the Maynard terminal will hop to pretty soon.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

The International Terminal is well under construction and is on target. It is also funded so dont worry it will be here shortly. End of next year I believe.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5855 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
I know of no situation where an airline has requested two gates under Air21 and not gotten them. Do you?

No but at the same time you don't seem to get the fact that Atlanta is out of gates. period. end of story. the are out of gate for DL,FL,AA,WN,UA or anyone who wants them. AFAIK the only thing the city has to give anyone is a single gate. I believe more can be asked for but I don't believe they have to give them to them if they don't have them.

Quoting Rampguy (Reply 17):
Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l wouldn't be so congested if DL would take some of those flights and distribute them to the other hubs. I'll bet no one at DL ever thought about doing that.

Why would they? I guess they don't like money? Ohhhh i forgot DL should help WN into ATL because they are "nice".  Yeah sure

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
It is full but there is room...just not for other carriers.

No its full for everyone. Even momma Delta doesn't have room.



yep.
User currently offlineDLflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5831 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 14):
We appreciate your intrest, but this is DL land and we would like to keep it that way."

Yes i would love that! or else ATL will end up like LAX.....


25 AvConsultant : Exactly, air service to FTY was first discussed after deregulation with an airline called Frontier Horizon's. They were looking to operate A-300's ou
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : That's very good to hear. I'm guessing it's terminal F? (am I confusing the two names?) that's behind. With the whole scandle about the contract, etc
27 Atlwest1 : I think the gates will be marked F if im not mistaken. Its probably the biggest construction project going on in the metro right now since the slow do
28 Cubsrule : The fact that Delta uses a gate 4 times a day does not make it unavailable. A gate or two could be found for WN, and under Air21, the airport has to
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : Would this be on D?
30 Cubsrule : Not necessarily. The City controls E too.
31 FlyASAGuy2005 : Got it. Now let me get a fe things clear. I've read that any gates that is "given up" is retured to the city and is returned as a CUTE gate. Is this
32 Goomba : First of all...what is a NIMBY? I'd like to think that Southwest could service PDK (Peachtree Dekalb). PDK has a 6001 ft runway...certainly could acco
33 DLflynhayn : There going to need more then help from the airport to get a gate or should i say1/2 of a gate!
34 FlyPNS1 : However, E is more expensive to use, so I wouldn't count on WN wanting it. The other problem with these common use gates is that it makes it tough fo
35 Cubsrule : Not In My BackYard As in, someone who dislikes noisy or otherwise bothersome neighbors like an airport.
36 AvConsultant : The potential problem, I can see the city missing the opportunity here as in the "outer perimeter" project. It will, but would take a performance hit
37 Cubsrule : Would it? It's only 500 feet less than MDW. I could see a problem if it's real hot, but that should be enough most of the time.
38 Blobusus : A lot of North Georgians would love an alternative to going to ATL. It can be a big ordeal to get in and parked - especially for folks who don't live
39 Atlwest1 : I never understand htis ATL is to hard to deal with statement. Its accessible by 3 freeways there is direct marta access into the terminal(*you can pa
40 Srbmod : The irony in regards to MGE is that it was originally built as a commercial airport called Rickenbacker Field that opened just prior to WWII (Built u
41 Blobusus : For many of the people in the area, getting on MARTA is harder than getting to the airport. MARTA only covers two of the fifteen metro counties, and
42 Atlwest1 : Yeah but i mean in Alpharetta and the northern suburbs you have to pass 3 Marta stations to get to the airport. I think alot of it is the perception t
43 AvConsultant : MDW is 650 ASL where PDK is 1003 ASL. I'm not a dispatcher, but OPNLguy will know. Unless someone else has knowledge of the operating specs. And I me
44 Cubsrule : Correct, but MDW isn't really at the edge of the 73G's performance. Heck, TZ took high-density 738s out of there on pretty long trips year-round.
45 474218 : The city of Atlanta owns land in Dawson and Paulding counties that was going to be used for a new airport. Nether area has been developed and are now
46 Post contains links PPVRA : You are right, but they would also be doing a dis-service to themselves: Delta doesn't want it and they employ a LOT of voters in Atlanta. There's wa
47 474218 : " target=_blank>http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlan....html If you would have read my post just before yours, and the article you referenced both me
48 DeltaL1011man : I guess you don't really know how Delta's hub works. 1000 flights a day with around 125 gates. (this is counting most of the gates on E which Delta d
49 Toltommy : Because the PDK NIMBYs want PDK closed, period. They don't even want GA traffic that close to their mcmansions. There's no way it would happen. As ot
50 Cubsrule : No. They could not, as someone (probably CO) was willing to lease space to them. To be fair, they'd probably have more like 12 if they could get the
51 Lexy : That's right and if I remember correctly, VX wanted to be closer to their VS gates at ORD did they not?
52 Cubsrule : IIRC, they said publicly that cost was the issue (which surprises me a bit, as DH found the cost of subleasing from CO acceptable).
53 DeltaL1011man : I disagree. If the city opens up a small airport ala LGB/DAL(with a set number of gates and a small number of slots) then I could see WN going after
54 Cubsrule : Doesn't the airport charge the same for E as it does for a stand for RONs? Otherwise, I can't imagine that the likes of US would use it just for the
55 DeltaL1011man : Not sure......could be.
56 FlyASAGuy2005 : I've heard this in the past. It's actually interesting to see E during mid day on the northwestern corner (near the ASA gates and the tower). It's li
57 CatIII : There is an investment group in NYC that Hollis Harris in involved that is in the business of privatizing airports. They're looking at coming in to D
58 SurfandSnow : Atlanta is by far the largest city (in terms of metro area) lacking WN service - the next largest would be Cincinnati. 20 years ago, Southwest probabl
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
RWY 27 At Juliana - Why Not Used For TOs? posted Tue May 23 2006 17:52:27 by Sunandan
WN At ATL.....dont Have The Balls posted Wed Oct 13 2004 05:46:51 by Deltadude
Why ARJ 85 At LH? Why Not ARJ 70? posted Tue Apr 24 2001 15:03:10 by Airsicknessbag
Why Not Include Orange County In WN Fare Sales? posted Wed Mar 20 2002 10:12:43 by Johnboy
Why No WN At ORD? posted Mon Nov 26 2007 06:55:48 by B777A340Fan
Why Not Upgrades At The Gate In Europe? posted Wed Jun 27 2007 19:43:11 by UPPERDECKFAN
B6 Vs. WN-why Not? posted Wed Dec 27 2006 07:58:07 by Deltaflyertoo
British Airways @ Heathrow T3 Why Not Also At T2? posted Fri Nov 3 2006 13:52:08 by 8herveg
Why No WN At LGB? posted Sat Oct 28 2006 18:02:18 by 28L28L
Why Not US Airways Hubs At LGA And DCA? posted Sat Feb 5 2005 16:31:11 by ACAfan