Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Biz Class Only Airline Wants To Start SEA-ANC  
User currently offlineFerrydxer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 50 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

A new biz class only startup begining as a public charter with SkyKing 737-200's.

http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2009/08/24/daily19.html

http://www.xairjet.com/

With AS 20+ flights SEA-ANC daily I dont see how this can work with 1-2 flights a day. I understand a lot of Alaskans feel taken advantage of with AS high fares btwn Alaska and the lower 48 but this will probably last as long as that Skagit County potato farmer's resurrection of Western Airlines at BLI a couple of years ago. A better way to do this would be to try to fly out of BFI, PAE or even BLI to fly under the grinning eskimo's radar and offer low fares so Alaskans can fly down here to do shopping trips. Just my  twocents 


Government: FUBAR on everything we touch!
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

So the solution to "taken advantage of with AS high fares btwn Alaska and the lower 48" is to offer an all-high-fares alternative ?  Embarrassment

SEA-ANC is probably too short a flight for many to be willing to pay a premium for C.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4464 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7935 times:

This looks like a some school assignment, look at the survey.
With the economy the way it is up in AK, I don't see this happening. AS will lower J fares and they are history. In order to break AS's monopoly, the only way will be a LCC to move in. By the way the market is not big enough to support anything next to AS.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7910 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Wasn't there an airline that was going to fly 757's between Seattle and Russia a couple of years ago?

An all business class product seems like a tough sell in this environment.


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

Interesting that they have a quote from Elbert Hubbard on their "homepage".


First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7870 times:



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3):
An all business class product seems like a tough sell in this environment.

I think that there is definitely a place for all premium class service in some markets. Suffice to say, I don't think that SEA-ANC is one of them, but I could be wrong.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5705 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

"Paging Hatbutton? Paging Mr. Hatbutton? Please report to the forum. Mr Hatutton?"  Smile

In all seriousness, my dad flies ANC-SEA several times a year, and I can't see him doing this any more than the next guy. If a JetBlue or something similar came in, it might be different. Until then....nope.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4464 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

Also lets not forget that most J paying pax wants mileage membership, alliances and all.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7539 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

With Skyking, this new airline is going be flying 737-200's, yes?

User currently offlineM11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

People need to learn that independent biz-only airlines don't work. Biz only airplanes operated in conjunction with major airlines (LH, Swiss, KLM, etc.) work because customers can earn miles and be able to have seamless connection to other flights. Maxjet, Silverjet, and EOS have all failed. It doesn't work.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7453 times:



Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
"Paging Hatbutton? Paging Mr. Hatbutton? Please report to the forum. Mr Hatutton?"

Haha I'm here. This is the first I've heard of this as well. Seems like operating a 737-200 on such a long route would cost a lot of money. Let alone, I'd hate to be the pax who get stuck in the seats behind the engines. 3 plus hours behind those JT8Ds would be miserable.

Quoting M11stephen (Reply 10):
People need to learn that independent biz-only airlines don't work. Biz only airplanes operated in conjunction with major airlines (LH, Swiss, KLM, etc.) work because customers can earn miles and be able to have seamless connection to other flights. Maxjet, Silverjet, and EOS have all failed. It doesn't work.

Exactly. If all biz airlines have yet to prove they can succeed in the largest biz markets in the world, surely SEA-ANC won't work. At least you'd want to start between the biggest US biz markets if you were going to start this type of operation in the US.


User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7438 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 11):

Exactly. If all biz airlines have yet to prove they can succeed in the largest biz markets in the world

Although at the moment, not the most shining example, but Midwest did well with the business only product for a good long time. So it can work . . . in theory.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineAS777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

This would definately not work. IF this new airline wanted to fly SCC-ANC-SEA-HOU I could possibly see this because a lot of the oil field workers and executives might like the all biz, and they can definately afford it. But just ANC-SEA-ANC? I think AS rips on us, but, my loyalty is to them. I am an elite member with them, and the fact that they are code-share whores and give me a lot of options, I would fly nothing else, not even an LCC.

I personally don't believe any LCC would do "GREAT" up here. I think if one were to move in I would say they could only do one flight per day. You have a lot of military folks up here who would enjoy low fares with no mileage plan....but when it comes down to it, AS has everyone "by the balls" and a lot of people will not stray. We like our mileage plans and AS has tied in their mileage plans with so many businesses up here, it is hard to find an Alaska resident who does not have at least an AS Credit Card.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7418 times:



Quoting Ferrydxer (Thread starter):
SkyKing

This makes me think of the King 5 News helicopter in Seattle....  sarcastic 

Honestly, I don't think that this will last very long. The AS retaliation would be very punishing and very unforgiving....

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 11):
Seems like operating a 737-200 on such a long route would cost a lot of money.

That, alone, will put this airline out of business within the first week in this environment.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7187 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 11):
Seems like operating a 737-200 on such a long route would cost a lot of money. Let alone, I'd hate to be the pax who get stuck in the seats behind the engines. 3 plus hours behind those JT8Ds would be miserable.

Yeah...and folks up here probably hasn't seen a 737-200 fly SEA-ANC nonstop since Wien or Air Cal.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4464 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7172 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 15):
Yeah...and folks up here probably hasn't seen a 737-200 fly SEA-ANC nonstop since Wien or Air Cal.

I guess that is sarcastic since I have been on many milk runs on AS 732s.


User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6974 times:



Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
I guess that is sarcastic since I have been on many milk runs on AS 732s.

He said nonstop in his post.

AS hasnt flown ANC-SEA nonstop with -200's for almost 20 years


User currently offlineCitation501SP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6659 times:



Quoting TK787 (Reply 2):
By the way the market is not big enough to support anything next to AS.

Except for CO's two dailies SEA to ANC.



Smoke and Thunder! Stage 2 FOREVER!!!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6641 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
I guess that is sarcastic since I have been on many milk runs on AS 732s.

Sure...AS flew SEA-ANC via points in between...but I was referring to nonstop SEA-ANC.


User currently offlineUAL757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 806 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6456 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 15):
Yeah...and folks up here probably hasn't seen a 737-200 fly SEA-ANC nonstop since Wien or Air Cal.

For some reason I remember just a few years ago a night flight from ANC-SEA that was a 732  Confused Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up something.


User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6363 times:



Quoting UAL757 (Reply 20):
For some reason I remember just a few years ago a night flight from ANC-SEA that was a 732 Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up something.

Since 2007 They have had a night 737-400C flight, I dont think its still operating. Before that the only -200 that would come into SEA was the ANC-JUN-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA flight, it would get in around 10pm then turn around and do the same route at about 8 the next morning. In the mid-late 90's AS did operate a few -200 flights in and out of SEA every day, they all either flew to JUN or KTN.


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6208 times:



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 17):
AS hasnt flown ANC-SEA nonstop with -200's for almost 20 years

That isn't accurate. While the company tried to avoid scheduling -200s on that route,
due to irregular operations or the need to position an aircraft, -200s did end up flying
SEA/ANC or ANC/SEA on occasion before they were retired.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently onlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2791 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6112 times:



Quoting M11stephen (Reply 10):
People need to learn that independent biz-only airlines don't work.

Exactly. There have been so many attempts and they all failed:
- Silverjet
- Eos Airlines
- MAXjet Airways
- L'Avion

just to name a few.

Furthermore, there have been a lot of such independent biz-airlines in the 80s l but I forgot all their names. The only name I remember was German Wings (LH was clever enough to buy the rights for that name and to use it later for their low-cost airline).

Somebody should warn people who want to set up an all-business class airline (something like a virus checker, which opens automatically when you are searching for information about all-business class airlines in the internet "WARNING: you are searching for items which are related to all-business class airlines. Please be aware that independent biz-only airlines don't work.")


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Actually, Alaska did fly 737-200's scheduled nonstop from SEA-ANC on occasion right up until they were retired. It wasn't a regular thing but every now and again you would find one on the schedule. It was usually a late night nonstop during the summer. I worked several of them. Currently, there is a late night 737-400 combi scheduled on this route. It leaves SEA just before midnight and leaves ANC just after 10pm or so.

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

Who cares if it's profitable or not, I want them to succeed merely because it'd be me another chance to fly on the 737-200! Woo hoo! Money schmoney, everyone KNOWS that when it comes to the aviation industry, no one cares about money, it's all about spotting and riding cool airplanes, aint that right? Big grin

Yes, I'm kidding around. Though I really would love another chance to fly one of my favorite aircraft again.

The idea is so flawed, I don't even know where to begin. I just can't see why ANY starting airline would want to play David vs. Goliath on their first route using all business class service on highly inefficient aircraft (thus resulting in a severe CASM disadvantage), instead of starting a route which has no service and a greater chance at profitability using smaller and more fuel efficient aircraft. But hey, what do I know about starting airlines?


25 Slcdeltarumd11 : Didn't delta use to fly SEA-ANC as well? Trying to remember....I know they flew PDX-ANC and LAX-ANC
26 PlanesNTrains : I miss the Wien warm towel service. Loved their colors, too. Western flew it, but I don't know how long Delta retained the route. Loved the DC-10's o
27 EcuadorianMD11 : Come down to GYE.....I see no end of ´m every day from my balcony! Beers are on me......... Ecuadorian MD11.
28 Ridgid727 : As a BIZ Class Public "Charter", this is destined to fail. As a regular public charter offering a flight 3-4 times a week between SEA & ANC, in regula
29 Luv2cattlecall : Alaska, like most airlines, has an ROI that's not much better than sticking the money in a 5 year CD.... point being that people aren't exactly "gett
30 UAL747DEN : After seeing AS cry like babies over the VX thing I would like to see VX or maybe even Mesa with a Go! type operation set up in ANC and completely sma
31 HikesWithEyes : Amazing service? Have you flown on them? Sits up or sets up?
32 HAL : It's just a rumor around the playground, but I've heard that we (HA) may re-start HNL-ANC, and add 2x daily ANC-SEA with our 767's once the first two
33 BayAreaBlue : AS is not crying like babies over VX, they are simply requesting a review of their ownership to ensure it is within the bounds of US law. If they are
34 Ridgid727 : Diversifying would certainly be in Hawaiian's Best Interest. I do hope that this rumour actually happens.
35 Ferrydxer : Yeah it would be cool to see and hear a 732 again at SEA. I can just hear those burner cans cracklin on those JT8D's on takeoff and getting enjoyment
36 UAL747DEN : How many times do they have to be told that VX is ownership is legal? Last time I checked AS was an airline, not a regulatory body. AS executives nee
37 Hatbutton : Why? The process of filing a petition is legal. If you don't like it, change the law. The FAA and DOT and DOJ don't keep a watchful eye on everything
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA New Biz Class To Brazil? posted Tue Dec 9 2008 09:25:56 by Tonytifao
New Paraguayan Airline About To Start Service posted Sun May 18 2008 20:13:43 by PZ
Neeleman Wants To Start Up An Airline In Brazil posted Wed Jan 30 2008 21:32:53 by C010T3
New LGW-US Business Class Only Airline posted Wed Dec 13 2006 18:52:48 by LGW
AA Wants To Start Early Talks On A New Pilot Deal posted Mon Jul 24 2006 22:30:39 by KarlB737
LAN To Unveil New Biz Class Seats And Service posted Tue Jun 20 2006 21:43:41 by DB777
New Airline Planning To Start Norrköping-CPH posted Sat May 15 2004 12:07:33 by Pera
Are Swiss A330s Going To Get The New Biz Class? posted Sat Oct 25 2003 12:30:41 by Nickofatlanta
BMI Wants To Start Baghdad Service posted Thu Apr 30 2009 10:23:15 by TFFIP
KLM To Start SEA? posted Sun Feb 10 2008 07:18:17 by LarSPL