Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EAS Bids Are Released For Midwest Cities...  
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

Hello All.

Most of the airlines, I think seven or six of them have placed bids or talked to different airports involving MWA, DEC, UIN, TBN, and BRL. Each airline offers connection possibilities to places like STL, ORD, BNA, MEM, CVG, MDW and MCI as options to connect the EAS cities to.

The airlines placing bids are..
CAT-Charter Air Transport
Cape Air
Great Lakes
Locair
Gulfstream Intl
Multi Aero-(Air Choice One)
Seaport

I was VERY interested at Cape Air and Gulfstream Intl's proposals, both offered an option of up to 6 DAILY MWA-STL, or split between MWA-STL/ORD. That would be very cool to see and have as an option. I liked the prices mentioned too, while higher than what I'd like to, certainly quite reasonable considering, time in security, free parking at MWA, included etc etc.

http://files.kfvs.com/news/AviationTechnologies%20Inc.pdf
CAT's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/Hyannis%20Air%20Service.pdf
Cape Air's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/Great%20Lakes%20BRL%20TBN%20Bid%202009.pdf
Great Lakes's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/Locair.pdf
Locair's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/SeaPort.pdf
Seaport's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/Gulfstream%20International%20proposal.PDF
Gulfstream Intl's Proposal

http://files.kfvs.com/news/Multi-aero,%20Inc..PDF
Air Choice One's Proposal

Alex


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9262 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 4188 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
Most of the airlines, I think seven or six of them have placed bids or talked to different airports involving MWA, DEC, UIN, TBN, and BRL. Each airline offers connection possibilities to places like STL, ORD, BNA, MEM, CVG, MDW and MCI as options to connect the EAS cities to.

ORD I could definitely see working on either UA or AA. Not sure about STL, MEM, and CVG tho considering the hub statuses there (well maybe not so muchdoubt about MEM). WN really doesn't interline with anyone, so BNA IMO could be a bit of a stretch.

I think when running service to EAS airports, the flights should originate/destinate at viable connecting hubs, and IMO, ORD is the hands-down winner here. Maybe MDW and MCI could work as well...

my 2cents



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4046 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):

I was VERY interested at Cape Air and Gulfstream Intl's proposals, both offered an option of up to 6 DAILY MWA-STL, or split between MWA-STL/ORD. That would be very cool to see and have as an option. I liked the prices mentioned too, while higher than what I'd like to, certainly quite reasonable considering, time in security, free parking at MWA, included etc etc.

 banghead  banghead  banghead 

I've flown many many times on ZK from STL/MWA back and have never been on a full flight, am one of less than 5 pax on the majority of flights, and am the only pax at least 30% of the time!

WHY are they using our tax $$ to pay for flights that generate an average of $250 in revenue??? It's only a 3 hour drive! Throw $20,000 in cash to Marion every day and everyone that lives there will be much happier. You could buy a used Yaris for every pax that flies there from STL and still come out ahead financially!

There are very few people in the country whose time is valued at over $10,000 an hour (based on 38 minute flight vs. 3 hour drive), and I have a hard time believing that any of them a) Live in Marion and b) don't own their own aircraft



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10598 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3898 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 2):
WHY are they using our tax $$ to pay for flights that generate an average of $250 in revenue??? It's only a 3 hour drive! Throw $20,000 in cash to Marion every day and everyone that lives there will be much happier. You could buy a used Yaris for every pax that flies there from STL and still come out ahead financially!

And yet, you used the service instead of driving. Why is that.....was it more convenient?

Did you think of the tax money wasted when you flew? Did you realize that, by using the service, you were perpetuating the EAS subsidy?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3838 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 2):
WHY are they using our tax $$ to pay for flights that generate an average of $250 in revenue??? It's only a 3 hour drive! Throw $20,000 in cash to Marion every day and everyone that lives there will be much happier. You could buy a used Yaris for every pax that flies there from STL and still come out ahead financially!

Because airports and airline service are economic stimulators to a community. Cars and more highway congestion aren't.

-Rampart


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3758 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 4):
Because airports and airline service are economic stimulators to a community.

I doubt 3 19-seaters a day really provide much economic stimulus, and it's not like southern Illinois has bad road congestion. If these flights are longer, it's a different matter, but I drive St Louis-Marion monthly, and it's an easy drive (and not even 3 hours, FWIW, more like 1:40)..



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

Just be aware...

Cape Air will use 9 seater planes, not 19 seater.

Most of the airlines are actually proposing between 7-9 seats, for MWA alone I have only seen ONE 19 seater plane proposal, and ZK is not bidding for MWA. They seem to be gone in November.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3694 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 6):
Most of the airlines are actually proposing between 7-9 seats, for MWA alone I have only seen ONE 19 seater plane proposal, and ZK is not bidding for MWA. They seem to be gone in November.

Alex, do you have a feel for why no one is proposing just MWA-Chicago? The local market is surely better than MWA-STL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSierraAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3653 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 6):
Cape Air will use 9 seater planes, not 19 seater.

Which I maintain is a better idea all around. If you can't fill a 19-seat plane, why use one?

Cost savings will also extend beyond the airline; by using a smaller aircraft, you avoid the need for TSA, saving countless dollars worth of government salaries to destinations that see 12 passengers a day.

My best and favorite flight experiences are flying Kenmore Air out of BFI. Check-in, go right to the airplane. No muss, no fuss.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3556 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
Alex, do you have a feel for why no one is proposing just MWA-Chicago? The local market is surely better than MWA-STL.

No idea Man.

I would favor a Chicago flight anytime, as I can make the drive easily to STL myself from Carbondale.

However, I tend to fly Southwest when possible, so if they do MWA-ORD, I wouldn't fly it as I prefer SWA, I would fly MWA-STL-XXX(WN station) if offered...

I think MWA is really pushing for a codeshare. They don't care if the airline interlines or whatever, it doesn't help MWA. They are really pushing for a codeshare.

The last rumor was ZK was gonna do MWA-ORD split with STL and offer a UA Express codeshare out of ORD, but that hadn't come to fruitation yet.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3531 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9):
However, I tend to fly Southwest when possible, so if they do MWA-ORD, I wouldn't fly it as I prefer SWA, I would fly MWA-STL-XXX(WN station) if offered...

Maybe that's part of the problem with Chicago. You have people like you who would like to connect with WN, which would militate for MDW service, and then you have people who prefer the single ticket/interline experience, which would militate for ORD. STL has both.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

I wonder if the companies that bid on these EAS routes in the midwest will
be bidding on Vernal UT, Moab UT, and Cedar City UT.

Contracts on those run out Dec 31, the bidding process for the next 2 years is taking place now, and must be completed by September 15th .

West Yellowstone MT contract also expires on Sept 30th.
They however don't accpet bids on this until later, as it is seasonal and during the summer only. I however have been informed that WYS airport board is seeking to have air service year round, rather than just the 4 months during the summer.


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3390 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):

I doubt 3 19-seaters a day really provide much economic stimulus, and it's not like southern Illinois has bad road congestion. If these flights are longer, it's a different matter, but I drive St Louis-Marion monthly, and it's an easy drive (and not even 3 hours, FWIW, more like 1:40)..

3 19-seaters is more option than no service. It's there to use. I have said and always will say that these regional routes are priced opposite of what they should be. They shouldn't be premium, they should be "normal". THAT would stimulate more traffic and justify the government support. But who am I?

I stand corrected on the drive. I used to drive (or ride) Carbondale-St. Louis and it seemed interminable! But's that's when I was more impatient.  Smile For traffic congestion, I was thinking more like within the St. Louis metro area.

-Rampart


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10598 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3357 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 11):
I wonder if the companies that bid on these EAS routes in the midwest will
be bidding on Vernal UT, Moab UT, and Cedar City UT.

Is OO bidding on CDC again, this time? They just got it back, last time after Mesa, IIRC, tried it and failed.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3335 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 12):
For traffic congestion, I was thinking more like within the St. Louis metro area.

To most places people are likely to go, traffic in St Louis isn't really that bad, though getting to Lambert sort of sucks.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3188 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 13):
Is OO bidding on CDC again, this time? They just got it back, last time after Mesa, IIRC, tried it and fa

IM not sure, but I would assume so. I guess it depends on how long OO is actually going to keep the EMB120's flying. Air Midwest did a horrible job at CDC, and their reliability was
awful.
Enter: Great Lakes, who in my opinion thinks they need to connect these cities in this area to DEN, rather than SLC. CNY, VEL, CDC, ELY- have more in common with SLC than they do with DEN, and the traffic from Utah's capital city to CNY, VEL became almost nil when
Great Lakes started ops to DEN. Utah government employees traveling to these places were suddenly without air service, unless they want to make a trek to DEN & then to CNY & VEL. Additionally CDC and ELY are more reliant on SLC for services-(health care, technical services ets) than they are on DEN.

These cities are far better served through SLC, than through DEN....even if Great Lakes has code shares with F9 and UA, they could better serve it through SLC than DEN, and open the markets back up to direct SLC traffic


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10598 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3060 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 15):
IM not sure, but I would assume so. I guess it depends on how long OO is actually going to keep the EMB120's flying.

Well, once the new airport at St. George is done, then you'll see a rapid decline in use of the EMB120's. They've already warned the authorities at SUN.

Can CDC handle anything larger than a Brasilia?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3151 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3045 times:

Alex,

You have time to do this on top of school, work and running back and forth to STL for Dr. appts for the cochlear implants (good luck with that, btw)?

As far as MWA-ORD is concerned, it won't work. ORD won't let scheduled prop service in there. That's why you see jets wasted on MKE, MLI, SBN and other locales where an ATR or Q-400 would be MUCH more efficient and profitable.



DMI
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3028 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 17):
Alex,

You have time to do this on top of school, work and running back and forth to STL for Dr. appts for the cochlear implants (good luck with that, btw)?

 rotfl   rotfl  Yes Sir I do!!!  Smile

Thanks Bud!



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineRjnut From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3028 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 17):
ORD won't let scheduled prop service in there

I wasnt aware it was an official restriction, more just a marketing decision from AA /UA after the AT72 crash? Just asking?!


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2996 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 17):
ORD won't let scheduled prop service in there.

How did all those ZK 1900s get in there up until 2002, then?

Quoting Rjnut (Reply 19):
I wasnt aware it was an official restriction, more just a marketing decision from AA /UA after the AT72 crash?

 checkmark 

ORD ATC can favor (and has favored) jets - does anyone else remember the lines of props holding over DPA? - but there's no official restriction.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2955 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 1):
ORD I could definitely see working on either UA or AA. Not sure about STL, MEM, and CVG tho considering the hub statuses there (well maybe not so muchdoubt about MEM). WN really doesn't interline with anyone, so BNA IMO could be a bit of a stretch.

MQ and UAX do not get involved with EAS operations, as they are a loss-making money pit. Generally operators like ZK, YV, and OO get involved because they can underwrite the losses for a longer period of time and they have the equipment to handle it. MQ doesn't even fly EAS-type aircraft anymore, the J31s were parked eons ago (IIRC 1999-2000 timeframe). UAX is a an amalgomation of regional operators with neither the aircraft nor interest in operation such routes. In fact, UA dumped ZK as a UAX partner in 2001 because of these routes.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2934 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 21):
In fact, UA dumped ZK as a UAX partner in 2001 because of these routes.

Could you explain more? Why would UA dump ZK because ZK operated EAS routes?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2916 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 21):
In fact, UA dumped ZK as a UAX partner in 2001 because of these routes.

It was ZK who dumped UA as an express carrier, and opted for simple code share. ZK could hardly wait for they day their contract with UA was up. At that point they could control
inventories thorugh their own CRC and not be pushed around by UA. It was ZK who ended the express operation.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2897 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 23):
It was ZK who dumped UA as an express carrier, and opted for simple code share. ZK could hardly wait for they day their contract with UA was up. At that point they could control
inventories thorugh their own CRC and not be pushed around by UA. It was ZK who ended the express operation.

Makes sense. Steeler83 doesn't always understand why things are done. I was merely pointing out that MQ and UAX don't do flying like that anymore and telling him why.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
25 Access-Air : Wrong, wrong, wrong....I verfied this with a friend of mine that works for UAL dispatch at ORD and there is NO rule against scheduled prop ops at ORD
26 Texan : Which are pretty darn comfortable and allows them to offer more flights. We used to see 3 daily B1900s (later upgraded to 2-3 SF340s) from LEB-LGA. T
27 Rjnut : I acutally show AA and 9(k have and interline "E" ticket agreement.. I have issued them (9K) with US space and it was "E" ticket! but id do agree tha
28 USPIT10L : You're right, you will catch some flack, but it's just a minor disagreement. Other than Britt Air, name me one company that has been sucessful since
29 Luv2cattlecall : Actually, since the flights were going to fly anyway (as long as there is at least one pax on either the outbound OR return - which means that the ro
30 Uncgso : Is OTM forever out of the loop when it comes to EAS? I flew ZK dba United Express in there around 1999/2000 on an ORD-BRL-OTM flight. Just wondering w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air Wis/Republic -- More Midwest Cities For HP/US? posted Thu Jun 9 2005 15:58:21 by DCAflyboy
Rumor: AirTran May Make Offer For Midwest posted Wed May 20 2009 13:07:20 by Oswegobag
Were Findings Released For The CO N18611 Incident? posted Sun Apr 26 2009 18:03:18 by RB211TriStar
ATSB Reports Released For QF A330, 747 Incidents posted Thu Mar 5 2009 18:36:22 by Allrite
Island Air Withdraws Their EAS Bids At Kansas City posted Mon Jun 9 2008 19:15:34 by Knope2001
Athens, GA - No EAS Bids posted Thu Mar 20 2008 12:15:04 by MasseyBrown
Airtran Ups Ante For Midwest posted Wed Aug 15 2007 16:48:44 by BravoGolf
AirTran Reaches For Midwest - All The Specifics posted Wed Jul 18 2007 22:56:42 by KarlB737
FLL Draft EIS Released For Runway Expansion posted Mon Apr 2 2007 07:16:20 by KFLLCFII
SkyWest RJ's In Paint Shops For Midwest Colors posted Tue Mar 13 2007 03:13:40 by Xpfg