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OS Merger With LH Confirmed By EU Commission  
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

EU commission has given green light for the merger of OS and LH.
Furthermore the EU has agreed on the € 500 million "final subsidiary" from the Austrian State for OS.

more details in the press release of Lufthansa

OS group has initiated a restructuring process weeks ago which will include a fleet reduction - all CRJ's and some DHC8-300 will leave the fleet. Furthermore a reduction in frequencies have already been put in place. All steps are part of the cost savings program in light of the future LH-OS merger.


TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2844 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

It looks like it won't be too much longer before Lufthansa becomes the next Pan Am, with hubs all over the world....
If the U.S. ever relaxes its foreign ownership rules, I wouldn't rule out a hub at JFK and a domestic airline (Lufthansa America, anybody?) to boot!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6958 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
I wouldn't rule out a hub at JFK and a domestic airline (Lufthansa America, anybody?)

What do you think JetBlue is?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6784 times:

LH is certainly becoming a strong competitor in the EU...
BIG BROTHER  Wink

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6742 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
I wouldn't rule out a hub at JFK and a domestic airline (Lufthansa America, anybody?)

What do you think JetBlue is?

Couldn't have said it better !!!

So does that make LH the largest airline in europe or is that position still held by the AF/KL group?


User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6725 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
It looks like it won't be too much longer before Lufthansa becomes the next Pan Am, with hubs all over the world....

At least they have real management and they will never go down like Pan Am did.


I wish all the airlines were like LH.



delta.com
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6681 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 4):
So does that make LH the largest airline in europe or is that position still held by the AF/KL group?

LH/OS is now slightly bigger AFAIK



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6598 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
I wouldn't rule out a hub at JFK

NO! ! ! LH or any airlines should rule-out JFK as a hub.
Anyone who flies into JFK regularly knows the ground delay is amongst the worst. Without enough gates, departing planes are pushed back to wait. Sitting in the taxiway for 45 minutes and up is common.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9146 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6557 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
It looks like it won't be too much longer before Lufthansa becomes the next Pan Am, with hubs all over the world....

They are miuch smarter, they buy airlines but they don't absorb these airlines. They keep the companies as separate entities, with a separate management and have them benefit from the synergy effects., OS now can get the same percentage on loans LH enjoys, that saves money. OS gets better fuel prices and much more, the whole purchasing will be tied into the LH system and purchsing is where the money is made.

For the rest of the world, LH started star alliance, something PA never had and something which could never have originated in the US, simply back dated anti trust legislation.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

So how do you think the OS fleet will be affected by this. Presently OS holds the following fleet:

Austrian Airlines:
6 x A319-100
7 x A320-200
5 x A321-100/200
2 x B737-600
2 x B737-700
6 x B737-800
6 x B767-300ER
4 x B777-200ER

Austrian Arrows:
10 x CRJ200
10 x DH8-300
10 x DH8-400
9 x F70
15 x F100

Considering that the LH Group is mainly concentrated on Airbus types


User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6388 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 9):
So how do you think the OS fleet will be affected by this. Presently OS holds the following fleet:

1st to leave (and already in process) are the 10 CRJ200's.
Additionally some, if not all, DH8-300s will leave the fleet.

A few more DH8-400 will be added as already ordered.

So the 50 seaters will soon be history.

The 737s will be more integrated in the OS fleet meaning a same time reduction of the NG charter fleet.
Right now 1 A321 (OE-LBC) and 1 A319 (OE-LDG) are not in use and stored at VIE.

It is difficult to forecast - my personal assumption is that we will not see a pretty quick change for the rest of the fleet with its mix of Boeings, Airbusses, Dashes and Fokkers.
It will also depend what will happen to the long haul flights of OS, fact is, that 6 763's and 4 772's are too much for the presently flown long haul segments.

LH will have a press conference on September 3rd which is also the official closing day where the official takeover takes place.
Maybe we will know more.

As a preliminary step there was an announcement on the reduction of the OS management level by 45%.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 4):
So does that make LH the largest airline in Europe or is that position still held by the AF/KL group?

yes, LH group will be the largest airline group in Europe.


LH had to agree on reducing flights (and giving up slots) on flights to FRA, STR, MUC, CGN and BRU as the EU commission feared a monopoly of LHOS on these routes.


For all that - it is a good day for OS and its employees even when the airline must shrink by 15%. This merger is the best what could have happen to the airline.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
They are much smarter, they buy airlines but they don't absorb these airlines. They keep the companies as separate entities, with a separate management and have them benefit from the synergy effects., OS now can get the same percentage on loans LH enjoys, that saves money. OS gets better fuel prices and much more, the whole purchasing will be tied into the LH system and purchsing is where the money is made.

well said. not to forget joined sales offices, airport operations/ground handling, ....



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineSeamefly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6369 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
I wouldn't rule out a hub at JFK and a domestic airline (Lufthansa America, anybody?) to boot!

LH America = LH bought UAL ! :p


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6353 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
It looks like it won't be too much longer before Lufthansa becomes the next Pan Am, with hubs all over the world....

Except for their Internal German Services to/from West Berlin, Pan Am only had 5th freedom rights everywhere else so all their other flights had to originate/terminate in the U.S. and use through flight numbers. That was much less flexible than the multi-hub structure of LH and their subsidiaries. Pan Am had no ability to establish true hubs outside the U.S, with stand-alone flights between foreign points. That's still true for U.S. carriers today, with a few exceptions for cargo carriers where 7th freedom rights exist with a few countries..


User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6277 times:

What is the chance now of OS resuming VIE-ORD? Or for that matter LH/UA starting VIE-ORD?


Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6201 times:

I am assuming that the OS Fokker fleet must be getting pretty old... Also, I am not sure how a smaller airline like OS can justify so many different fleet types... CRJs, Boeings, Airbusses (both widebody and narrowbody), dash 8s, and Fokkers...

Of course it must be said that Austrian's fleet would require an almost entire overhaul of replacements to bring it up to an efficient level, and that would require lots of money... I am not sure that LH is really thinking that this may be the best time for them to embark on this project right now considering that:
- They need to deal with a large cash outflow in the form of purchasing 100% of Austrian, 45% of Brussels Airlines, and 50% of BMI;
- The impact of the economic downturn which is still reverberating in the industry;
- The soon-to-come introduction of their new A380s;
- Their soon-to-come introduction of their new First class;
- The refurbishement of their economy class on the remaining A343 and B744s with PTVs;
...

oooofff... This airline has gotten some cash about to be spent!

Cheers!


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5984 times:



Quoting Seamefly (Reply 11):
LH America = LH bought UAL ! :p

LH America= LH bought UAL = soon to be CO Big grin haha only kidding


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

Would LH transfer the Airbus fleet to them and leave OS with all Boeing fleet?

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Hopefully this doesn't mean the end of OS at YYZ. I love the 767 with winglets in their colours!!


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5373 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):
What do you think JetBlue is?

- I believe LH has minority ownership of B6.



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineBuzzaway From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4522 times:



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 18):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):
What do you think JetBlue is?

- I believe LH has minority ownership of B6.

19,x % of JetBlue is owned by LH.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

Congratulations to both airlines.

Quoting TW741 (Thread starter):

So does that make LH the largest airline in europe or is that position still held by the AF/KL group?

They already were, if I'm not mistaken.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):


It looks like it won't be too much longer before Lufthansa becomes the next Pan Am, with hubs all over the world....

Quite an achievement, considering the situations they have been in in the past.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9146 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4395 times:



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 18):
I believe LH has minority ownership of B6.

they bought all the available shares which came out to just under 20%, I guess they will buy up to the mximum imit of 25% eventually when more shares become available.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4341 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
That's still true for U.S. carriers today

But that's true for virtually all airlines, not just US carriers.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4339 times:

Interesting will be the fleet developmet:

What will happen with the 767/777 fleet ? I doubt that they will be replaced soon, likely they will go when a modern replacement 787/A350 is available.

I can imagine that OS will also get the CSeries as their new narrowbody/regional aircraft.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4209 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):

they bought all the available shares which came out to just under 20%, I guess they will buy up to the mximum imit of 25% eventually when more shares become available.

They are currently evaluating the option of selling all B6 shares, or some if they don't sell BMI. So definately no new shares in the next year if ever. (That's just what LH was saying)



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
25 PanHAM : the reason for selling shares has been the feared down grading by rating agencies., That has happened now, from BBB+ to BBB-
26 Viscount724 : With a big exception in the EU, where any EU-based airline can fly anywhere in the EU, including wholly-domestic routes in other countries. US and ot
27 PanAm788 : So will OS retain their identity like KL, or will they lose it like NW?
28 PanHAM : well, EU carriers don't have that kind of flexibility in the US either. OS will retain their identity. That is a very important factor, in a European
29 ZRH : You better ask, will OS retain its identity like SWISS? Because SWISS also belongs to the LH group. I guess so.
30 Fabo : Quite much in Austria, especially, in my opinion. True, but US domestic market is much bigger than any European domestic market. Accounting any EU ai
31 SKAirbus : Before long they will be the only competitor!! BA and IB had better get their socks on..
32 PanHAM : The European single market is larger by population than the US. Ryanair, Easy and to some extend Air Berlin are using the liberties if the single mar
33 Fabo : That is why I said more like, not just like.
34 GlobeEx : You mean the right thing, but make it sound right. The EU's population is bigger. However, the market is smaller. This has to do with much smaller di
35 JU068 : Well OS was always proud of it's Eastern European destinations, does anyone know what is going to happen there? I am sure that flights will be reduced
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