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Eastern Air Lines 747 Routes 1970-72?  
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8469 times:

While awaiting delivery of their L-1011s, Eastern leased 747-121s from Pan Am from late 1970 to Spring 1972...

Were Eastern's leased 747s regularly used on any route(s) other than New York-Miami and New York-San Juan? If so, what were some of the other routes to which they were assigned or were frequently subbed-in?

From what I have been able to find, there were three Pan Am 747s leased in by Eastern: N731PA, N735PA and N737PA; was/were any other 747/s ever operated by Eastern on lease?

Thank you for any information that can be provided in reply to these questions.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Maybe, Miami - Los Angeles and New York JFK - Los Angeles?



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User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 20751 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8356 times:



Quoting September11 (Reply 1):
New York JFK - Los Angeles?

I'd highly doubt that (but stand to be corrected), given that EA didn't fly the traditional transcon routes prior to deregulation. IIRC, their first LAX/SFO - JFK flights were on the Tristars much later.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

From what I recall the EA 747-121s were routed on:
JFK-MIA-JFK
JFK-SJU-JFK
ORD-MIA-ORD
Cheers


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8285 times:

The Feb. 1972 EA timetable shows the following 747 flights:
EA75 ORD-MIA and EA70 MIA-ORD
This is in addition to one JFK-MIA and THREE JFK-SJU flights!
Cheers.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2248 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8162 times:



Quoting September11 (Reply 1):
Maybe, Miami - Los Angeles and New York JFK - Los Angeles?

Prior to deregulation, LAX-JFK was served by AA, UA, and TWA. In 1969, PA was allowed to fly between the two cities, but was not able to carry LAX-JFK local passengers; they were only allowed to carry passengers flying internationally on PA - for example, Sydney-Los Angeles-New York.

The first MIA-LAX route was awarded to NA in 1961. Northeast was awarded MIA-LAX nonstops in 1969, but when Northeast merged with DL, the Civil Aeronautics Board excluded NE's MIA-LAX route from the transaction. After a lengthy CAB proceeding, the former Northeast authority was given to Western; WA began LAX-MIA nonstops in 1976.

EA added LAX-JFK / MIA nonstops in June, 1980, long after the 747s had been returned to Pan Am.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2560 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8087 times:

I clearly remember meeting my parents at ORD when they returned from MIA in 1971 aboard an EA 747. When they got their vacation pictures developed, I remember Dad had one of his pal standing up waving in the middle row of seats and you could see only about six other folks in the entire section. I asked if that was taken before they took off or after they landed and he said it was in-flight. The load factor on this flight was VERY low, and it was January when that lane should be full.

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 3):
From what I recall the EA 747-121s were routed on:
JFK-MIA-JFK
JFK-SJU-JFK
ORD-MIA-ORD
Cheers

My dad just verified the JFK-MIA-JFK route. Working on the others.

He just said yes to the SJU but doesn't think they went to ORD.

[Edited 2009-08-28 13:14:26]

User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2560 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7956 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
He just said yes to the SJU but doesn't think they went to ORD.

I can promise you they went to ORD - I am old but not quite senile yet, so I am pretty sure that my memory is valid on this point.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7902 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
He just said yes to the SJU but doesn't think they went to ORD.

Eastern's 747s may well have served ORD on a seasonal basis only. As noted in a previous reply:

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 4):
The Feb. 1972 EA timetable shows the following 747 flights:
EA75 ORD-MIA and EA70 MIA-ORD

Which makes total sense inasmuch as Delta scheduled their 747s regularly between ORD and MIA, at least during the peak (winter) months for the route... lucrative as the market was at the time, it seems there would be no way Eastern would concede the market to their rival... which is, in effect, what they would have done if they had not responded with 747 service... back in 1970-72, the Boeing "Jumbo Jet" had an irresistable magnetic appeal with the travelling public -- so much so that airlines could ill-afford to be without them on routes where the type was flown by one or more competing airline(s).


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10527 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7855 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 5):
Northeast was awarded MIA-LAX nonstops in 1969, but when Northeast merged with DL, the Civil Aeronautics Board excluded NE's MIA-LAX route from the transaction. After a lengthy CAB proceeding, the former Northeast authority was given to Western; WA began LAX-MIA nonstops in 1976.

Actually, the CAB excluded the MIA-LAX earlier than that, when NW and NE were going to merge. This exclusion was one of the things that made NW back out of the deal.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineEastern747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

Flight 75 was the 12:00 flight ord-mia. It then turned to a mia-jfk flight and then Jfk-sju. Then a reverse. I was on the first Jfk-sju flight. If memory recalls, a mechanic was still on board bolting down a dance floor and piano in the cabin behind f/c. I don't remember that lasting long.

User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

From departedflights.com

From the available EA timetable in 1972, it appears that EA had 4 daily two digit flights to MIA/FLL from ORD. (Am assuming that the two digit flight numbers indicated widebody 747's)

http://www.departedflights.com/EA090672p14.html

From a Delta 1973 timetable there were 3 747's daily ORD-MIA, and I know that in 1972 a 4th 747 flew ORD-ATL as I used to nonrev on it.

http://www.departedflights.com/DL030173p86.html


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6885 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7606 times:

2/71 OAG shows one daily EA 747 ORD-MIA, two daily JFK-MIA, and ten a week JFK-SJU.

Don't have a 1972 OAG, but I'm betting EA didn't have four ORD-MIA 747s.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7457 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 12):
From departedflights.com

From the available EA timetable in 1972, it appears that EA had 4 daily two digit flights to MIA/FLL from ORD. (Am assuming that the two digit flight numbers indicated widebody 747's)

The complete 1972 Eastern timetable illustrated at departedflights.com is dated September 6, 1972. By May 5, 1972 the last-ever Eastern 747 service had been flown. In other places in the 06 Sept. 72 timetable, widebody L-1011 service is noted in the very same manner as 747 service was indicated in Eastern timetables from 1971.

Therefore the two-digit ORD-MIA/FLL flight numbers mentioned above would have been operated by 727, DC-8 or DC-9 equipment; L-1011 can be ruled out due to lack of notation found with flights elsewhere in the same timetable and there is no possibility of the flights being operated by 747 inasmuch as the last one of the type ever to be operated by Eastern had been returned to Pan Am 4 months before the timetable's effective date.


User currently offlineTymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

I believe the EA 747 was known to call at BDA in '71.


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25834 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7348 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 5):
EA added LAX-JFK / MIA nonstops in June, 1980, long after the 747s had been returned to Pan Am.

Eastern LAX-JFK service was actually rather weird and not a traditional flight either.

EA signed some cargo deal with a freight forwarder(if believe CF) that purchased the belly space. Flights using A300s were also timed very poorly with like with a 10pm departure from NY and 1am arrival at LAX, and a early redeye arriving JFK at like 4am!. Passengers were also very limited in baggage as the bellies were sold as cargo.

I guess the cargo service did ok, as in later years EA expanded the cargo operation with hub at IAH with similar late night flights connecting across the country and sold as "Moonlight Special". I recall Coast to Coast fares were merely $89 for these midnight flights.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMarkBoston From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 6695 times:

My first 747 flight was on Eastern Airlines MIA-JFK on 1/14/71. There were only about 80 passengers on the plane. The stewardesses (that's what they were called then) were beautiful.

It was one of the best flights of my life.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6350 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Eastern LAX-JFK service was actually rather weird and not a traditional flight either.

EA signed some cargo deal with a freight forwarder(if believe CF) that purchased the belly space. Flights using A300s were also timed very poorly

In Eastern's January 12, 1981 timetable there are 3 daily non-stops each way between LAX and JFK, all with L-1011 equipment... departing LAX at 8:00am, 1:20pm, and 8:50pm, with meal service on all three flights except the latter, which offered a meal in F, snack in Y. Westbound flights were also timed like 'conventional' transcon pax services, with same aircraft type and inflight service.

Quoting September11 (Reply 1):
Maybe, Miami - Los Angeles and New York JFK - Los Angeles?

You are perhaps confusing these transcon routes with the (near) transcon non-stop route ATL-LAX v.v. Eastern was authorized (from ~1969) to fly prior to deregulation?

As others have correctly noted, these markets were not served on a non-stop basis by Eastern until after deregulation (the same 12 Jan 81 timetable mentioned above also shows a once daily L-1011 non-stop flight each way between MIA and LAX).

During the regulated era, Eastern could only "sit back and watch" as arch-rival National flew MIA-LAX v.v., with 747s during some seasons... later joined by Western with DC-10s before deregulation finally gave Eastern the opportunity to enter the market.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6885 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5987 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Eastern LAX-JFK service was actually rather weird and not a traditional flight either.

The 1980 nonstops JFK to LAX and SFO were traditional enough.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
EA signed some cargo deal with a freight forwarder(if believe CF) that purchased the belly space.

That was later-- the Moonlight Special, all A300 thru an overnight IAH hub.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25834 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5987 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 18):
In Eastern's January 12, 1981 timetable there are 3 daily non-stops each way between LAX and JFK, all with L-1011 equipment... departing LAX at 8:00am, 1:20pm, and 8:50pm, with meal service on all three flights except the latter, which offered a meal in F, snack in Y. Westbound flights were also timed like 'conventional' transcon pax services, with same aircraft type and inflight service.

Look a little further -- the flights were quickly discontinued sans the cargo flight.

Departed flights has a 3/82 timetable with only the late night A300 service.
http://www.departedflights.com/EA030282intro.html



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10527 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5974 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 12):

From a Delta 1973 timetable there were 3 747's daily ORD-MIA, and I know that in 1972 a 4th 747 flew ORD-ATL as I used to nonrev on it.

I can recall only 2 747 ORD-MIA flights......one at about 0900 and the other about 1900. The 747 to ATL left in the afternoon and went ORD-ATL-JAX, IIRC.

The other MIA 747 may have gone out about noon or so.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Hey guys....

Hope this helps some...

From the January 21, 1971 Eastern timetable:

Boeing 747 service on the following flights:

ORD-MIA EA 73 9:15am-1:16pm Daily

MIA-ORD EA 70 4:45pm-6:48pm Daily

MIA-JFK EA 20 2:00pm-4:51pm Daily

MIA-JFK EA 24 4:00pm-6:48pm Daily

JFK-MIA EA 9 9:00am-12:07pm Daily

JFK-MIA EA 17 12:00pm-3:01pm Daily

JFK-SJU EA 935 6:30pm-11:11pm FriSatSunOnly

JFK-SJU EA 929 11:30pm-4:07am Daily

SJU-JFK EA 920 7:00am-9:44am Daily

SJU-JFK EA 938 12:45am-3:31am MonSatSunOnly

I hope that helps!

Greg
www.departedflights.com


User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 693 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5868 times:

N702ML. You got it right.

I worked for Eastern back then in MIA and I had to load the liquor kits on those B747s. As I recall there were 24 of them that went into the upper deck lounge. Not a lot of fun going up and down those stairs.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Sorry to be a little off topic but this got me interested. My very first flight was on March 26, 1975 (I was 2 years old) from ORD to FLL. My Dad believes it was on Eastern and the EA flights to FLL made a stop in MIA. Is that correct? It sounds like the 747s were already returned but does anyone know what kind of aircraft it may have been? I did the same flights in '76 and '77, would those have been the same possibilities?

Thank you!


25 Sankaps : That's what they are still called in many parts of the world by some of the world's leading airlines (eg Singapore Airlines), with no negative connot
26 Timz : In the 3/75 OAG, the three direct EA flights were all 727 nonstops; in 3/76, same except the 2100 departure was a D9S; in 3/77, no EA direct flights,
27 Tango-Bravo : Can anyone confirm whether Eastern ever subbed in a 747 on their (near) transcon route ATL-LAX? ...or perhaps occasionally on high density Florida rou
28 WA707atMSP : I would be very surprised if the 747s appeared on ATL-LAX. EA really struggled to make this route a success in its early years, and often flew 727-25
29 United Airline : Any international routes???????????????????
30 Kellmark : Good questions. There were several reasons why the 747s would not be utilized that way. 1. Crews. There were limited crews available and they were se
31 Viscount724 : Eastern's only international routes in those days were Canada (YUL/YOW/YYZ), Mexico (MEX/ACA), the Bahamas (NAS/FPO), and Bermuda (BDA). The 747 woul
32 TymnBalewne : EAL did send the 747 to BDA. C.
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