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CX's Plan To Start Hong Kong-Manchester-Moscow  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11050 times:

CX was planning to start Hong Kong-Manchester-Moscow or Hong Kong-Moscow-Manchester earlier but was put on hold due to flight right issues in Russia. What's the latest news now? Will they start this route anytime soon?

Thank goodness CX didn't scale back much. Wonder when will they return to 2007 size as well as net profit. Will we see triple daily for HKG-LAX and HKG-YVR by next year?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

I seriously doubt YVR would go triple daily. It was flown in 2007-08 triple daily only because to piss off Oasis Hong Kong Airlines which they did successfully.

If Russia is giving CX a problem, I would instead propose that they fly to MAN via AUH on a daily basis using an A 333 (2 class configuration). Though there is traffic for CX to warrant sending a 4 weekly nonstop A 343 as apart from SQ no other airline I can think of flies nonstop from MAN to SE Asia. Combine that CX's superior geographical positioning versus SQ for pax from MAN bound to China, ICN, Japan, SGN, MNL, TPE and BKK, there is bound to be a lot of 6th freedom traffic along with the O&D on this route. They would also get a decent amount of AKL and Australia bound traffic from MAN via HKG.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10908 times:

I think CX wants to fly to Moscow too. Why is the Russian government giving CX a hard time but not SQ

Does KA still have plans to fly to LHR and SYD after the merger?

[Edited 2009-08-28 22:04:14]

User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10751 times:

I doubt you're going to get many people flying from Australia only any two stop service operated by CX when SQ and EK offer one-stop.

User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2080 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10369 times:

Why not? Plenty of people fly BA/QF via LHR and connect onto the BA domestic flights to MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL/ABZ.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10304 times:
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Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Why not? Plenty of people fly BA/QF via LHR and connect onto the BA domestic flights to MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL/ABZ.

Err....for MAN, QF/BA tie-up to Australia two stop via LHR and another point = 34,000 pax whilst the one-stop strategy = over 150,000 pax (per a fairly recent CAA survey).


User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10255 times:

I don't think the CX MAN service was about Russia not liking it, rather than bmi opposing it as they wanted to operate a UK-MOS service themselves, and didn't like the idea of a foreign carrier coming in and doing it (the original CX routing proposal was HKG-MOS-MAN). bmi do now operate to MOS, albeit from LHR.


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User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10237 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
Does KA still have plans to fly to LHR and SYD after the merger?

I would assume KA will remain CX's regional subsidary operating flights within Asia, unless CX wants to operate some routes in addition or only as a low cost carrier and use it simmilar as QF does with Jetstar otherwise there is no point for KA to fly to Europe or Australia.


User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10156 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Why not? Plenty of people fly BA/QF via LHR and connect onto the BA domestic flights to MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL/ABZ.

Yes that's because it's QF (And the BA JSA) - QF is good at ferrying the great unwashed of Australia to the two big Ls of the anglosphere & most people know that and bemoan the fact you have to go through Heathrow if you want to go anywhere else in the UK (or Ireland!)...

I was referring to a potential CX HKG-AUH-MAN service which would not complete with SQ or EK.

Slightly off topic, but on MAN - if ever there was an airport where you'd want to slip in quietly, it would be MAN - I actually flew MEL-SIN-MAN back in July, EU lines at passport control wasn't even looking at the screens as they scanned the passports (I could have been a seedy character with all sorts of a record and they wouldn't have noticied) and there was 0 people on Customs - the whole process of disembarking to walking into the UK took less than 10 minutes.

$0.02


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5126 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

Why not re-indroduce the HKG-AMS-MAN tag on? AMS-MAN is quite expensive with only KLM operating it. A bit of competition would be good.

User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8983 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 9):
Why not re-indroduce the HKG-AMS-MAN tag on? AMS-MAN is quite expensive with only KLM operating it. A bit of competition would be good.

WW also operate MAN to AMS. I've heard that KL does pretty well at MAN.



seemyseems
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8674 times:

What about CX starting nonstops to both Moscow and Manchester?

A flight to DME could connect to most of the S7 services within Russia, and would probably make a nice bit of money for CX. Meanwhile, MAN probably has enough traffic to sustain a 3-4x weekly nonstop flight, and CX certainly has the equipment (B777-300ER). It would also bring some competition on the MAN-East Asia market, which right now only has SQ providing direct flights.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5134 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 8431 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Why not? Plenty of people fly BA/QF via LHR and connect onto the BA domestic flights to MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL/ABZ.

For two of the airports you mentioned (EDI/ABZ), there is no one stop option. For 2 of the others (GLA/NCL) the flight is in the morning, which I believe is not ideal for connecting onwards to Australia. Add to that frequent flyer and airline loyalty, and that is why many still fly 2 stop to australia via LHR.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

Nothing has changed. CX would still like to do it, but the rights issue is one which is not going away. They were looking at Manchester via a different, non-European airport but the economy has delayed pretty much all expansion plans for now. However once the economy is back to normal it will also be business as normal and expansion will be pursued.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

Are they still interested to fly to Moscow?

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6925 times:
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Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 13):
Nothing has changed. CX would still like to do it, but the rights issue is one which is not going away. They were looking at Manchester via a different, non-European airport

If the CAA is correct in asserting that a projected 136,000 passengers went MAN-LHR-HKG in 2007, why the reticence for the non-stop unless BA have such sway over CX that CX is unable to think for itself and do it non-stop? That is the challenge for CX when they want to expand their European services.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

CX flew to Manchester before right? When was that? And was it a direct nonstop flight?

Can't they start HKG-Moscow as well as HKG-MAN separately?


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6896 times:
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Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
CX flew to Manchester before right? When was that? And was it a direct nonstop flight?

They began MAN ops in 1989 but was a one-stop service using 744s on a 2 weekly basis via FRA. At other times it routed via ZRH, CDG and AMS, with frequencies being added until it went daily; at it's peak in 1997, CX uplfted 145,000 pax out of MAN but what the breakdown was for the AMS stop and how many went to HKG and beyond is not known. They did also operate A340s apparently (I've no recollection of this at all!) so whether it was non-stop I can't tell you. The service stopped in 2001; the CX pilots strike put paid to the service in addition to a certain event in that year, plus they admitted that they were promoting the CX codeshare on BA's LHR shuttle in favour of their own routing direct to MAN.


User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 878 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

I remember CX flying to MAN via ZRH with brandly new A343 in 1998 .

dennys


User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6718 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):

Maybe CX were looking at a purely MAN-HKG market - the Chinese community in NW England (esp. Liverpool) is second only to London in number.



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User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6713 times:
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Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
CX flew to Manchester before right? When was that? And was it a direct nonstop flight?

I remember in 1992 flying CX MAN-FRA-HKG , I am pretty sure that at one point the service was daily MAN-XXX-HKG with some flights via FRA and some via ZRH



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

When CX use to fly from MAN they didn't have as much competition on the route...

Nowadays there are many options for passengers flying to Hong Kong or the Far East from Manchester. You now have the the Middle Eastern carriers like Emirates, Etihad and Qatar that all offer connections to this region as well as the traditional European carriers like BA, AF, LH and KL via their respected hubs.

Then their is also BMI that can offer numerous connections with its Star Alliance and codeshare partners at LHR.

A one stop flight is not going to be all that attractive, and to attract people the route really needs to be direct. Then it is questionable if their would be enough people to fill up an A340 or 747.

Singapore Airlines from what I understand also operates from MAN and this flies 2-3 times a week and this route has also been struggling and is very low yieldings. From what I have read on here, this route is questionable on how long it will continue?!


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6238 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
Can't they start HKG-Moscow as well as HKG-MAN separately?

Cathay could do it and might even make money on those two separate routes, but they would rather use the plane on other more lucrative routes. In good times there are plenty of routes which can make money but if you over-extend yourself during the good times, when the bad times come you will hurt badly for it. It is a fine balance and CX has always been on the more conservative side of things. They are looking at MAN with one stop (In India) but not Moscow non-stop. Not for now.


User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

India is an interesting move, no direct competition on the route, MAN could benefit from this, it may even kick 9W/IT/AI into operating the route.


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5936 times:
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Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Then it is questionable if their would be enough people to fill up an A340 or 747.

When a typical single daily transatlantic service generates around 100,000 pax if using a 767, I fail to see how a 3 weekly non-stop A340 will not be filled if 136,000 pax fly MAN-HKG via LHR alone!

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
this route has also been struggling and is very low yieldings

in the form that SQ needs the MAN pax to fill the A380s at LHR.

_

I'm just wondering how many pax route MAN-HEL-HKG as that appears to be the "quick" one-stop route? Let's get AY and CX to codeshare that just to see the impact on the LHR numbers.


25 Cricket : Heh, unlikely given the situation of those guys right now. SQ used to operate SIN-BOM-MAN 4x weekly on a 744 many moons ago before MAN went non-stop
26 United Airline : Will CX ever fly to Northern Europe, Central/South America?
27 CX flyboy : They tried Stockholm before with the A340s but that did not last long. South America might come one day but it is definately not a priority. Mexico C
28 TristarSteve : Actually they were B744. It was a tag on the FRA flight, which seemed strange. They could fill up the flight out of FRA to HKG most days, and sold th
29 Flyboy_se : well they do operate to ARN with 747 freighters.Would be nice to see them back at ARN.I think they would do good
30 Cornish : Having looked at this market for a certain other operator in the past, I know full well that there is a large potential market between HKG and Manches
31 United Airline : If they fly to South America I suppose they will go through SYD or AKL right? When did they try Stockholm? Wonder if they will fly passenger planes t
32 David_itl : So it's pure coincidence that all 4 carriers did not alter much at MAN for past 2 years apart from timetable changes. SQ then introduces the A380 to
33 Danfearn77 : I have to say i think your both right. It wasnt purely coincidental that SQ chopped their timetable as they introduced the A380 down to LHR. But in t
34 Oly720man : Some historical snapshots from some old timetables, and the A343 only seemed to be used in the summer of '98 Oct '91 CX289/288, arr 0800 dep 1050 Tue
35 Cornish : I wish you'd remove those gigantic chips of your shoulders. You do actually talk a half decent amount of sense on here - far more than most of the ch
36 Addd : MAN-DME-HKG may be tricky: - demand for DME-HKG segment, I guess, would be limited (SU already flies to HKG from Moscow, and South East Asia and Austr
37 Pylon101 : Traffic between Moscow and Hong Kong is quite heavy. And I believe there is place for additional player besides SU on this non-stop route. I heard man
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