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DFW Terminal Rehabilitation Project  
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1395 posts, RR: 8
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6889 times:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.ART0.State.Edition1.3cf3798.html

Key details:

  • All Terminals but D to receive major reconstruction
  • Estimated Cost: $3B financed "through grants, increased passenger facility charges, revenue from the airport and by selling as much as $2 billion in new debt"
  • Estimated Timeframe: 2011-2017

    I, for one, agree with the Director that, while showing their age a bit, the terminals currently work pretty well and are in decent shape. Are they the Taj Majal that Terminal D is? No. But perhaps they're finding sufficient revenue streams coming out of D to make this whole thing work financially.


  • I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
    28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
     
    User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6848 times:

    Great. Something else to look forward to when I go to/through DFW.

    I will agree with one thing - the restrooms in terminal C (AA) are in big time need of refurbishing. More concessions will be nice too.



    Flying Colors Forever!
    User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
    Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

    I have no doubt that DFW's terminals need refurbishing ... but $3 billion?

    The entire construction of Terminal D was only $1.2 billion.



    "Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
    User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1531 posts, RR: 4
    Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6528 times:



    Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
    I have no doubt that DFW's terminals need refurbishing ... but $3 billion?

    The entire construction of Terminal D was only $1.2 billion.

    They're trying to keep up with the new Cowboy's Stadium...  duck 



    Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
    User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

    Several thoughts:

    First and foremost, I think this is a great use of the airport's resources. D/FW - as analyst after analyst concludes - is in quite a good spot financially relative to most of their peers among other major U.S. hub airports. D/FW benefits from having massive amounts of land that it will never use for airfield or terminal space, and thus can be used for other purposes, including large amounts of commercial, industrial, and trade-zoned development, and for oil and natural gas exploration. Because of this huge amount of "non-traditional" revenue, D/FW has faired quite well financially even through the uncertainty of the last few years.

    Second, I look quite forward to seeing what exactly is in the plan for the renovation of the non-D terminals. I think we can all agree that the terminals do need plenty of work and updating, and it should be interesting to see how the final renovations shape up. I like the talk of updated restrooms, more concessions space (although I must say that I find D/FW's existing offerings more than adequate), and especially the higher ceilings.

    That last one - the higher ceilings - is probably priority #1 for me: I think that if the ceilings were raised 5-10 feet and skylights were put in, that alone would dramatically alter the entire look and feel of the terminal. The only issue there with skylights would be making sure that passengers don't bake in the terminals in the summer when light shines through.

    I also agree that offering some form of concessions outside security - probably near the baggage claims - would be a huge improvement. I will also look forward to seeing what they mean by more automated check-in systems, and how that integrates with perhaps modernized or altered check-in areas for the airlines. What I mean, specifically, is that anyone who has used, for example, AA check-in areas at D/FW sees that while they have done their best to put in tons of self-service machines, etc., they are still trying to create a 21st century check-in design within the architecture of a decidedly 20th century layout. That may be changing if the airlines like AA have the chance to rip up the current system and start from scratch. Should be interesting.

    Finally, I do have to agree that $3 billion seems like an enormous amount of money to spend on this, since, again, it does total almost double what the airport spent for Terminal D and the SkyLink. I'm not sure what, exactly, that number will encompass, and what they're planning, but that does seem like a huge amount for raising ceilings and reconfiguring some terminal space.


    User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6505 times:



    Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
    I have no doubt that DFW's terminals need refurbishing ... but $3 billion?

    The entire construction of Terminal D was only $1.2 billion.

    $3 billion is pretty cheap for that many gates. Then again, building mods cost a fortune. Might be cheaper long term to just start over and build a more effiicent facility for AA. Its a damn mess connecting with them across multiple terminals.


    User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6492 times:



    Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 5):
    Might be cheaper long term to just start over and build a more effiicent facility for AA. Its a damn mess connecting with them across multiple terminals.

    The original - I'm talking early 1990s - plan was to move Delta (which then still had a DFW hub) to a new terminal on the west side, knock down Terminal E (than 4E) and turn the entire East side in to one long, straight linear terminal for AA. I don't see that happening again because connecting now at DFW with the SkyLink is now fairly effortless (not sure why you find it a "damn mess").


    User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

    I just wish they would fix the roadways. They are in truly awful condition, not helped by the soil types in North Texas and overall neglect by the Airport.


    - DBC


    User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6263 times:



    Quoting DBCooper (Reply 7):
    I just wish they would fix the roadways. They are in truly awful condition, not helped by the soil types in North Texas and overall neglect by the Airport.

    Agreed. The roads - especially the infield circular drives leading up to the up/down inlets to the inner terminal loops - are absolutely horrific. They desperately need work, and I sincerely hope that they earmark some of this $3 billion for that. In fact, I don't even think that would cost all that much in the scheme of things.


    User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5391 posts, RR: 26
    Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

    One hopes that, this time, they'll not use the stunningly bad contract and bonding package used on the Term D / Infrastructure projects. That thieving crock of doo cost several honorable businesses their existence and hundreds of people, their jobs.


    ...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
    User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4841 posts, RR: 19
    Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6090 times:

    Time for refurbishment already? It seems like just yesterday they opened the place.

    I was last there a few months ago, and I do agree that the place looks dingy and dirty. I think it's not really dirty, just all the aging concrete gives it that look.

    Isn't Homeland security the group that closed down most restaurants and bars before security checkpoints due to security "risks"? If you are dropping someone off or picking somebody up, there usually isn't anywhere to eat before security, and if you aren't flying that day, then you can forget it.



    Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
    User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1661 posts, RR: 11
    Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

    DFW isn't the most beautiful airport in the world. Terminal A, B, C, and E are all in need of their touch-up's. I must say that I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what the mods are going to be. DFW could use a new look.


    "Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
    User currently offlineDfwcre8tive From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 67 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

    Here's another story. They will start work right after Super Bowl XLV in 2011 with Terminal A finished in 2014.

    http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2009/08/31/daily49.html


    User currently offlineDfwcre8tive From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 67 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

    As posted in another thread here, last year ACSA and DFW hosted a student competition to redesign the terminals. The end result was a terminal quite different from the current facility. Hopefully they will incorporate elements of the winning design into the terminal improvements.

    https://www.acsa-arch.org/competitions/0708airport.aspx


    User currently onlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3782 posts, RR: 34
    Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5529 times:

    I was just going to post that.

    http://www.coa.gatech.edu/arch/images/2007-8_student_work/2008_summer_DFW_airport/2008_burton_hall_dfw_airport_fullsize1.jpg

    That's just the first page. There's a lot more.

    LoneStarMike


    User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
    Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5399 times:

    Wow. Notice how just about all the aircraft in that rendering are 4-engined birds. And that's for Terminal A -- a domestic terminal!


    "Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
    User currently offlineAA757200 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5376 times:



    Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 5):
    Its a damn mess connecting with them across multiple terminals.

    Not really sure where your angst is coming from. With the rail system in place, connecting at DFW to any terminal could not be easier. You clearly have not been there recently, or if you did, you missed your chance to hop the rail, and walked instead. Regardless, you are point is utterly invalid.


    User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5350 times:



    Quoting AA757200 (Reply 16):
    Not really sure where your angst is coming from. With the rail system in place, connecting at DFW to any terminal could not be easier. You clearly have not been there recently, or if you did, you missed your chance to hop the rail, and walked instead. Regardless, you are point is utterly invalid.

    Yeah, it works real well in thunderstorms.


    User currently offlineAA757200 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5312 times:



    Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 17):
    Yeah, it works real well in thunderstorms.

    So do arrivals and departures. If the train is closed due to a storm, the ramp is closed as well. Not really a need to rush to your gate in that instance. So again, what's your point? You clearly have an axe to grind with DFW. Get over it. Connecting there is as easy as it gets.


    User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5264 times:



    Quoting AA757200 (Reply 18):
    So do arrivals and departures. If the train is closed due to a storm, the ramp is closed as well. Not really a need to rush to your gate in that instance. So again, what's your point? You clearly have an axe to grind with DFW. Get over it. Connecting there is as easy as it gets.

    No axe to grind, don't get so spun up in your defense of a poorly layed out terminal arrangement for a hubbing airline. It is an absolute certainty that if DFW were going clean sheet that the existing O&D type terminal layout would not be used or prefered by the airport or AA.


    User currently offlineAA757200 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5247 times:



    Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 19):
    It is an absolute certainty that if DFW were going clean sheet that the existing O&D type terminal layout would not be used or prefered by the airport or AA.

    Way to point out the obvious. The sun will also set tonight, but I don't claim to be an astronomer.

    Given the current terminal configuration, getting to and from any point inside of security at DFW could not be any easier than it is now. We are not talking about a clean sheet approach; we are discussing 'improvements' to what is currently in place. I am confident that on a day to day basis, the average passenger at DFW would tell you connecting from Terminal E to Terminal B (an illogical connection at best, but one that covers the longest possible physical distance one could conceivably have to cross for any connection at DFW) is simple and efficient, given the use of the train system. That could not be said 5 years ago, when it truly was (using your inaccurate phraseology) a damned mess.

    I’m struggling to find a point in your verbiage.


    User currently offlineGlbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 634 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

    Interesting that the article cites competition from Love Field as a reason for the DFW facility upgrade.

    User currently offlineJustPlaneNutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 492 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

    The food courts arond the Skylink stations makes a lot of sense. I'll be intersted to see what the do with the following:

    Lower Level--With the decline of curbside check-in, the lower levels are underused. Do they move baggage claim down?
    Old Airtran Tracks--Do they rip it all out or do they rework it as a landside people mover to the rental car facility and offsite rail station.


    User currently offlineFlyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 558 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

    Quoting Ssides (Reply 15):
    Wow. Notice how just about all the aircraft in that rendering are 4-engined birds. And that's for Terminal A -- a domestic terminal!

    Expecting more traffic over time after recovery of the recession, expect many new 748i birds and some A380's landing there due to a renewed DFW airport which can compete with the no 1 hubs in Asia ( Hongkong, Seoul, Singapore).   * )

    I am happy to see some long term investment plan, which is an exception compared to the usual quarterly year financial reporting method of companies and general under investing in Infrastructure habit in the US.

    regards

    Flyglobal

    PS: * ) forgot the re-engined 777 'NG' with geared turbofan which will be a 4 holer and the A360 geared turbofan which also will be a 4 holer derivetive of the A350.

    [Edited 2009-09-05 13:02:02]

    User currently offlineAAtakeMeAway From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 310 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4908 times:



    Quoting JustPlaneNutz (Reply 22):
    Old Airtran Tracks--Do they rip it all out or do they rework it as a landside people mover to the rental car facility and offsite rail station.

    Speaking of which... They've done something with the old tracks at Terminal A. Does anybody know what?


    25 Notdownnlocked : My biggest hopes are that they repaint the roads so that new persons exiting from Intl Parkway into the terminals know that there are 2 lanes instead
    26 JayDavis : Here are my thoughts on the whole matter. I noticed in the article in the Dallas newspaper, it said that there were going to be fewer security check-p
    27 Reality : I think it does make sense to consolidate security in one or two entrances per terminal. That way security personnel can be used more efficiently, an
    28 Commavia : The devil's in the details, and I think it all depends on the execution. I generally do agree that one of the nicest things about DFW is that there a
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