Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SAA Looking For 4 Daily Flights To South America  
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

The brazilian press informed today that, according to South African's South American director, the airline plans to have 4 daily flights between JNB and South America until 2011, those being 2 daily to GRU and one daily to EZE and GIG.

The article also reports that on june 2nd, 2010 SAA will introduce 4 new weekly frequencies to GRU.

Source - Panrotas (portuguese only)


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Honestly by just looking at what you posted this looks like a move for world cup traffic


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 4756 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

World Cup traffic for sure, plus SAA has a lot of potential to carry onward 6th freedom traffic via their JNB hub to all across Africa, BOM, HKG and other "code share destinations" such as SIN operated by SQ.

User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6055 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5001 times:

When I was in NBO the other day there were a fair amount of Brazlians and even a few Argentines going on Safari.....

Definitely a market SAA would be well positioned to tap.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4822 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting AF086 (Thread starter):
The brazilian press informed today that, according to South African's South American director, the airline plans to have 4 daily flights between JNB and South America until 2011, those being 2 daily to GRU and one daily to EZE and GIG.

As many posted, in my view the new flights will be solely to accomplish with World Cup demand, and i doubt they could make it work the same way they tried in 2007/2008 and failed. GRU got more services, including DKR and LAD, and the best chance SAA could have is to increase EZE and open GIG.
The 4 additional flights will work during the World Cup but after, they will remove them as soon as they realize their yields went down with two flights.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8291 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4701 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AF086 (Thread starter):
The brazilian press informed today that, according to South African's South American director, the airline plans to have 4 daily flights between JNB and South America until 2011, those being 2 daily to GRU and one daily to EZE and GIG

Why did SAA ever stop flying to EZE, these 3 cities should have been on the SAA MAP FOR 20 YEARS.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4687 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Why did SAA ever stop flying to EZE,

SAA left GIG as well a long time ago. Every year SAA states to the brazilian press that they'll reopen the GIG station but in the end of the day that just doesn't happen.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
these 3 cities should have been on the SAA MAP FOR 20 YEARS.

Agreed.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4655 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting AF086 (Reply 6):
SAA left GIG as well a long time ago. Every year SAA states to the brazilian press that they'll reopen the GIG station but in the end of the day that just doesn't happen.

That's true, in 2007 said 2009, in 2008 said 2010, now 2011.... all not to lost some valuable customers in Rio like Vale and Petrobras.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

One dilemma, where do they come up with extra frames, I think all their fleet are pretty tied up now. Also is there room for 5th or even 6th daily flights? Those don't have to be daily but I think there's potential, especially SSA, CPT-GRU, JNB-SSA, JNB-REC, JNB-LIM (connects upper South America, Central America, West Coast of US with LAN Peru or TACA)

User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4164 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Why did SAA ever stop flying to EZE, these 3 cities should have been on the SAA MAP FOR 20 YEARS.

Recurring crises: Corralito, Tequila effect, etc...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Vincewy (Reply 8):
One dilemma, where do they come up with extra frames, I think all their fleet are pretty tied up now. Also is there room for 5th or even 6th daily flights? Those don't have to be daily but I think there's potential, especially SSA, CPT-GRU, JNB-SSA, JNB-REC, JNB-LIM (connects upper South America, Central America, West Coast of US with LAN Peru or TACA)

What i believe:

JNB-GRU A346
JNB-GIG A342
JNB-SSA A342 - 2x weekly
JNB-REC A342 - 2x weekly

And the same problem as flights from Northeast to the United States, it lacks a clear hub for the region. They lost a lot because each city is not able to handle multiple flights (except LIS for obvious reasons like historical ties, the chance of connections at LIS and language).

Also, it shows how South America is limited in terms of connections (with the exception of Sao Paulo). GIG and REC are in better situation to deal with Africa, but only GIG has limited regular service (only LAD)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4109 times:



Quoting Vincewy (Reply 8):
JNB-LIM (connects upper South America, Central America, West Coast of US with LAN Peru or TACA)

LIM is a Oneworld hub (LA). TA isn't Star yet and if CM joins Star (because SA)">CO) TA most likely won't be in.
LIM then wouldn't work for SA, even if the good news is that Peruvians don't need visas for Southafrica and Southafricans don't need them for Perú. I may expect a CM-SA codeshare or at least a thru-fare for the PTY-GRU-JNB route soon.

In the near future I can see SA flying JNB-GIG, CPT-GRU, JNB-SSA too.
I'd not rule out REC, CNF or BSB but SA won't be able to use those Brazilian airports as stop en-route to Northamerica or other Southamerican destinations, since Brazil ANAC restricts SA to where and to how use their 5th liberty rights.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3991 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 11):
In the near future I can see SA flying JNB-GIG, CPT-GRU, JNB-SSA too.

I really can't see SA in NE Brazil in the next 10, maybe 20 years. I will be surprised if they can fill up a single airplane out of REC a few days before the Cup.


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3832 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
JNB-GRU A346
JNB-GIG A342
JNB-SSA A342 - 2x weekly
JNB-REC A342 - 2x weekly

Honestly, sometimes I try to be optimistic as you but it just doesn't cut it for me. OK GIG I can sore of understand where u coming from, but SSA & REC? Come one!!! What kind of inspiration do you get to make such surreal suggestions?

There is no demand whatsoever that would sustain flights from South Africa to NE Brazil. It's delusional!!!

Coming back to planet Earth, I do believe EZE has potential for daily flights and GIG a handful of 3 weekly operations. Actually, SAA should use the extra frequencies in GIG, this way it would open a new station without reducing their yields on the JNB-GRU market.

TAM did a very smart thing when they decided to use only charter flights to JNB. There isn't room for 2 airlines to operate in it profitably.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3748 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 13):
There is no demand whatsoever that would sustain flights from South Africa to NE Brazil. It's delusional!!!

Then why TAAG Angola aruns charters into SSA?
SSA may be attractive for Southafricans (plus Mozambiqueans) as it's the centre of Afro-Brazilian culture and it has its share of resorts nearby.
Surely, JNB-SSA wouldn't come near JNB-GRU/GIG in terms of profit, but I could think SSA, but not REC, can support at least twice weekly JNB service.
As for SA Southafrica - REC, only as a enroute stop to/from Northamerica.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3732 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 13):
Honestly, sometimes I try to be optimistic as you but it just doesn't cut it for me. OK GIG I can sore of understand where u coming from, but SSA & REC? Come one!!! What kind of inspiration do you get to make such surreal suggestions?

Information, just information. And a lot of respect.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 13):
There is no demand whatsoever that would sustain flights from South Africa to NE Brazil. It's delusional!!!

No demand ? Northeast represents at least 20% of the current Brazil-Africa demand. Unexplored ties, possible ethnic tourism, growing VFR because of two large corporations like Odebrecht and Queiroz Galvao, and yes if it's "delusional" to go against A.Net general view, i'm doing this since i become a member



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3503 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
No demand ? Northeast represents at least 20% of the current Brazil-Africa demand. Unexplored ties, possible ethnic tourism, growing VFR because of two large corporations like Odebrecht and Queiroz Galvao, and yes if it's "delusional" to go against A.Net general view, i'm doing this since i become a member

We all like to make rational guesses.

Brazil and Africa like you said have a lot of potential. But why would SA be the one to fly to NE Brazil?

Just looking at geography, one can see an uphill battle for them to cover their costs. Recife is less than 2000 miles from Dakar. JNB is more than twice as far. Salvador is not much different. They could both be served from the southwestern tip of Africa with a narrow-body equipped with ETOPS instead of a wide-body required for JNB. JNB would be an awful connecting point for the rest of Africa (often worse than LIS).

Then airlines rarely fly twice a week to longhaul destinations anymore. This stuff only works where there is lots of money to be made, like LHR-LAD. If SA is to fly to NE Brazil twice a week, what happens to the crew? They can either take a 3-4 day stay in Brazil (costly) or the plane will sit on the ground waiting for the inbound crew to clock their rest time before heading back (costly). REC-DKR on the other hand can probably be done with a single crew out and back the same day.

Sorry, JNB to NE Brazil is a far far away shot.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
CO IAH-GIG - DL Looking For More Flights To Brazil posted Wed Nov 12 2008 18:58:56 by LipeGIG
Future EK Flights To South America Routed Via FRA? posted Fri Nov 4 2005 20:11:09 by Avianca
Who Has More Flights To South America? posted Mon Sep 20 2004 02:42:56 by Squirrel83
Flights To South America. posted Sat Aug 14 2004 15:10:41 by CRJboy
Emirates To Launch Flights To South America posted Fri Jun 25 2004 02:34:09 by Jeff32
BA Flights To South America? posted Sun Dec 29 2002 22:13:50 by Donder10
AA Flights From DFW To South America Canceled 8/27 posted Tue Aug 28 2007 05:56:55 by Ghillier
Planes Required For Daily SYD To LHR Flights? posted Sun Feb 15 2004 09:53:39 by MEA
America West Airlines Starts Daily Flights To YYC posted Sun Oct 27 2002 20:12:55 by Westjet_8
SAA Routes To South America? posted Fri Jun 28 2002 18:17:08 by Ts-ior