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United Mainline Returning To Miami  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9439 times:

I just noticed in the schedules that UA is resuming DEN-MIA starting October 25 once daily on an A320 which means the return of mainline service to MIA. When was this announced?


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9320 times:



Quoting BA (Thread starter):
I just noticed in the schedules that UA is resuming DEN-MIA starting October 25 once daily on an A320 which means the return of mainline service to MIA. When was this announced?

It's a seasonal change that's been happening every fall for the past few years. I don't believe mainline ORD-MIA and IAD-MIA are coming back this time around, though.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9140 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 1):
It's a seasonal change that's been happening every fall for the past few years. I don't believe mainline ORD-MIA and IAD-MIA are coming back this time around, though.

UA hasn't seasonally discontinued DEN-MIA before. DEN-MIA did become a Ted route, but returned to regular UA service after Ted was discontinued in January.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineGxman From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9011 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 2):
UA hasn't seasonally discontinued DEN-MIA before. DEN-MIA did become a Ted route, but returned to regular UA service after Ted was discontinued in January.

So this was the first year is was brought down to seasonl service?



Steve
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8967 times:



Quoting Gxman (Reply 3):
So this was the first year is was brought down to seasonl service?

I guess so. I always thought UA announced it was discontinuing mainline service to MIA altogether, but maybe I'm wrong and it is just a seasonal cut, however, as OB1504 pointed out, ORD-MIA and IAD-MIA are not returning and will continue to only be serviced by UAX.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8967 times:

I don't think that UA mainline would resume their Latin American operations out of MIA, taking into account the vast code-share agreements which are currently sustained with both JJ and TA.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineAnetter123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

I don't know why UA even bothers with South Florida anymore. The fact they shut down PBI/FLL and converted their only airport left in the region to a UAX operation still appalls me. The fact they don't connect SFO/LAX to S. Florida yet VX will come November is also apalling.

I simply cannot understand how and if they are even making a profit knowing AA has practically hourly service to ORD, mainline to IAD and YEAR ROUND mainline service to DEN...lol.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8541 times:



Quoting Anetter123 (Reply 6):
I don't know why UA even bothers with South Florida anymore. The fact they shut down PBI/FLL and converted their only airport left in the region to a UAX operation still appalls me. The fact they don't connect SFO/LAX to S. Florida yet VX will come November is also apalling.

I simply cannot understand how and if they are even making a profit knowing AA has practically hourly service to ORD, mainline to IAD and YEAR ROUND mainline service to DEN...lol.

Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap, why should UA fight to maintain a market that has no money for them. I would love to see UA to Florida more from ORD (my inlaws live there) but when Spirit, Southwest, Airtran and USA 3000 offer such low fares, I would be stupid not to take them.

What is so hard to understand that AA has a hub in MIA, they are connecting people through MIA to all of Latin America, which allows them to make money on the route because the LCCs can't compete with that!


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8358 times:

Is there that much traffic DEN-MIA or is it the CR7 can't fly that far?

User currently offlineAA757MIA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8272 times:



Quoting ADent (Reply 8):
Is there that much traffic DEN-MIA or is it the CR7 can't fly that far?

I don't have the traffic numbers but everytime I fly the route on AA (and once on UA) the load factor is 100% or very close to it.

The main problem with the CR7 (ER variant, which I dont know if those are the ones UAX has) will be departing from DEN @ 5,431', especially during the summer months; even during the winter, with a range of about 2000 nm, I don't think it can make it to MIA which is like 1700 nm from DEN.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8168 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
What is so hard to understand that AA has a hub in MIA, they are connecting people through MIA to all of Latin America, which allows them to make money on the route because the LCCs can't compete with that!

Spirit and jetBlue are certainly getting operations out of FLL to some selected Latin American stations.
For the case of Spirit in Central America, AA has tried in the past to match their fares to South Florida and adding additional flights onto AA FLL-SJO**

**AA FLL-SJO will be replacing for the forth daily frequency AA MIA-SJO next year.


Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8105 times:



Quoting Anetter123 (Reply 6):
I don't know why UA even bothers with South Florida anymore. The fact they shut down PBI/FLL and converted their only airport left in the region to a UAX operation still appalls me. The fact they don't connect SFO/LAX to S. Florida yet VX will come November is also apalling.

I simply cannot understand how and if they are even making a profit knowing AA has practically hourly service to ORD, mainline to IAD and YEAR ROUND mainline service to DEN...lol.

Well, its the sad story of what UA did in their early 2000s bankruptcy: dump some of their focus cities and move flights to the hubs. For the east coast, they got rid of the MIA/JFK/EWR traffic and moved it to IAD...



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineHondah35 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8044 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap, why should UA fight to maintain a market that has no money for them. I would love to see UA to Florida more from ORD (my inlaws live there) but when Spirit, Southwest, Airtran and USA 3000 offer such low fares, I would be stupid not to take them.

If UA is to be believed as a business airline, it has to at least make an effort to service MIA. While it is obvious that UA does not have a strong southern presence, much less South Florida, you can't pick and choose your high-yield routes without respect to the needs of your business travellers to reach certain business destinations, and MIA is a major business destination.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7850 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap,

Because Miami is a very different market than the rest of Florida and one of the most important business destinations in the country.



a.
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7805 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap, why should UA fight to maintain a market that has no money for them. I would love to see UA to Florida more from ORD (my inlaws live there) but when Spirit, Southwest, Airtran and USA 3000 offer such low fares, I would be stupid not to take them.


What I find surprising though is how UA keeps a good presence still at MCO (notorious for LCCs and a destination that has taken a blow during the recent recession) but has let MIA hit the dust..



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineGt1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6042 times:

Excellent points regarding the business traveler's needs, the MIA market, and UAL's thinking.

When airlines make scheduling decisions, do they consider that if a city like MIA isn't served at some reasonable level, that it may effect a travelers decision to use that airline for a completely different route? So, does using the RJ on ORD - MIA push customers in ORD to use AA to SEA for example, so that when they DO go to MIA they can use the main line carrier?

My suspicion is that they don't consider it. Would be interesting to know if UAL has lost customers in others cities due to the MIA service level.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5886 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 11):
Well, its the sad story of what UA did in their early 2000s bankruptcy: dump some of their focus cities and move flights to the hubs. For the east coast, they got rid of the MIA/JFK/EWR traffic and moved it to IAD...

It is quite sad. It's hard to believe now that I flew on a UA 777 on MIA-DEN back in 2000.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 16):
It is quite sad. It's hard to believe now that I flew on a UA 777 on MIA-DEN back in 2000.

Yup. I miss seeing the DEN-EWR-LHR 777 routing as well.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap, why should UA fight to maintain a market that has no money for them. I would love to see UA to Florida more from ORD (my inlaws live there) but when Spirit, Southwest, Airtran and USA 3000 offer such low fares, I would be stupid not to take them.

What is so hard to understand that AA has a hub in MIA, they are connecting people through MIA to all of Latin America, which allows them to make money on the route because the LCCs can't compete with that!

As Mark pointed out, MIA is as rather unique Florida market.

US flies from two cities to MIA a nine times a day with 737-300/-400 equipment. CO flies from three cities to MIA ten times a day with equipment ranging from the ERJ-145 to the 757-200. NW flies from three cities to MIA a total four to six times a day with A319/320 equipment. DL flies from three cities to MIA fifteen times a day with equipment ranging from the CRJ-700 to the 757-200.

UA, on the other hand, flies to only two cities four times a day, with nothing bigger than an EMB-170. How is it that the other legacies can make MIA work, but UA can't?

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 11):
Well, its the sad story of what UA did in their early 2000s bankruptcy: dump some of their focus cities and move flights to the hubs. For the east coast, they got rid of the MIA/JFK/EWR traffic and moved it to IAD...

Continuing on, UA had what the other legacies didn't. They inherited PA's MIA hub. They had all the framework in place, yet let their position deteriorate from that of a hub carrier to a distant sixth among domestic carriers. He's appalled because it's, well, appalling.

[Edited 2009-09-03 18:30:00]

User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

I would like to think that UA could do LAX-MIA, 2x-3x daily on A319/A320 equip. I am sure UA's loyal FF base on the West coast would welcome the opportunity to more conveniently reach MIA on UA metal while avoiding bad weather airports (think snow or T-storms) like DEN or ORD. Moreover, UAX service to MIA is so infrequent that a mis-connect can become a real hassle. I saw that same thing happen in February to an older lady routed SFO-IAD-MIA and mis-connected at IAD due to weather. An LAX connection if available would *probably* have worked out better.

AA runs 6-7x LAX-MIA. I know all the S.A./Caribbean bound connection and premium traffic arguments to support the AA service frequency. But really, UA can't make a few daily flights work, really?

[Edited 2009-09-03 19:58:55]


Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineAlitaliaDC10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Does UA still have any lounges at MIA?

Last time I flew MIA was back in Aug/Sep 2001 - flew LAX-MIA in First on a 777 and back on 08 Sep 01 on the A320 connecting back home LAX-SYD.

I remember there was a UA red carpet lounge and also an international Flagship First Lounge which LH pax were using too.



Orbis non sufficit
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25242 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4793 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 18):
As Mark pointed out, MIA is as rather unique Florida market.

I don't know who "Mark" is and he may be right, but that doesn't mean it is "unique" for United.

Surely the time has past when every US airline had to serve everywhere?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4763 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 18):
Continuing on, UA had what the other legacies didn't. They inherited PA's MIA hub. They had all the framework in place, yet let their position deteriorate from that of a hub carrier to a distant sixth among domestic carriers. He's appalled because it's, well, appalling.

As the financial positions of most legacy carriers have weakened over the past decade, the network carriers have all retreated from hub markets where they could not sustain a dominant market position. Unlike AA, UA will soon have two Star Alliance partners to service the South Florida market as well as complement the limited service provided by UAX.

Some could argue that AA's retrenchment at SJC, DL's retrenchment at DFW (and CVG), and US' retrenchment at BWI and PIT could be seen as equally "appalling." I would argue that MIA's loss of UA has been IAD's gain, with expanded service to Asia, Europe, South America, and The Middle East.

I'd say that is better to re-deploy one's assets to where they will generate the greatest amounts of revenue...



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineAnetter123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4638 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
Why are you so appalled? Every LCC and their mother flies all over Florida, the yields are crap, why should UA fight to maintain a market that has no money for them. I would love to see UA to Florida more from ORD (my inlaws live there) but when Spirit, Southwest, Airtran and USA 3000 offer such low fares, I would be stupid not to take them.

Why am I so appalled? Because South Florida is a region with 5 million plus people...very important business/leisure destination and UA (with its 5 hubs) only has 2 UAX flights to one of the regions 3 airports. Do I have to continue to explain myself? Most of the folks in this thread have already stood by my point...I'm just appalled now that you are asking me WHY I'm appalled...LOL!

Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
What is so hard to understand that AA has a hub in MIA, they are connecting people through MIA to all of Latin America, which allows them to make money on the route because the LCCs can't compete with that!

I don't get this last comment? Yes AA has a hub in MIA? So what? Are you implying this is the reason UA doesn't serve South Florida more? So why do CO/NW/US/AS/DL continue to fly down here then? Not to mention they fly out of FLL/PBI?


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4452 times:



Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 20):
I remember there was a UA red carpet lounge and also an international Flagship First Lounge which LH pax were using too.

If I recall correctly, the Red Carpet Club is now the Club America, and the first class lounge on the fourth floor is now used as an impromptu storage room by Customs and Border Protection.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Surely the time has past when every US airline had to serve everywhere?

Why is it, then, that American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, US Airways, AirTran, Allegiant, jetBlue, Southwest, and Spirit can maintain a presence in South Florida while all UA can do is four daily RJs to one of the country's largest metro areas?

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 22):
As the financial positions of most legacy carriers have weakened over the past decade, the network carriers have all retreated from hub markets where they could not sustain a dominant market position.

Neither AA at SJC, US at PIT, nor DL at DFW have cut their respective former hubs at the rate that UA has cut MIA.


25 Mariner : United "could" do it, too. That isn't the point. Why should every US airline serve everywhere in the US? All it leads to is over-capacity, reduced yi
26 SurfandSnow : Hardly anything to jump up and down about though. Unless UA ever realizes that Miami actually is a year-round city it will be gone in a few months...
27 Mariner : i understand the point, and mine remains the same. United is estimated by the analysts to lose nearly $10 a share this financial year. To go into a m
28 LAXintl : UA at MCO is a totaly different dynamic then MIA, as the airline has some strength there and holds a very key corporate contract. = Disney. This was
29 MAH4546 : AA's MIA hub operation runs around 60% local traffic. The conversion to UAX never happened. UA at MIA is still mainline staffed, and hence DEN return
30 Mariner : United does serve MIA, both with it's express affiliate and through its code share partner, US. I have no idea what the point of domestic code share
31 MAH4546 : The fact remains that while every major U.S. airline has at least three dozen daily flights to South Florida, United has five. It's pathetic anyway y
32 Mariner : So we come back to the old argument - that every major US airline has to serve everywhere? In which case, what is the point of domestic code share? m
33 MAH4546 : I'm not arguing anything. United has five daily flights to one of the most densely populated regions in the United States and every other major carri
34 Mariner : "Argument" in this sense means the premise of the debate. Okay. But every US major is in financial stress, so just because many other carriers are do
35 MAH4546 : Maybe United needs to offer a convenient schedule for business travelers first. South Florida is Washington, D.C.'s third largest domestic O&D market
36 Pellegrine : So bloody what??? UA chose to de-emphasize MIA, period. As someone else pointed to above, the do not have anywhere near the critical mass that AA has
37 MAH4546 : And good for them. It is still pathetic. I'm not even talking about MIA here. I'm talking about South Florida. A small pressence at MIA, who cares, m
38 Mariner : Okay, I get it, you think it is pathetic, you've said it often enough. You don't debate it, you ignore or dismiss the fact that they serve South Flor
39 MSYtristar : UA has not abandoned ATL and DFW (and neither MIA, but they choose to have a minimal presence their). Both ATL and DFW see at least 15 flights per bu
40 Intermodal64 : UA serves Florida very well through its US Airways partner.
41 MAH4546 : And US Airways flies exactly how many daily flights between South Florida and Chicago, LA, San Fran, Denver and D.C.? Although its nice to see US wil
42 Mariner : Really, I shrug. Back in the 1990's, Rono Dutta, when he was president of United, made a famous speech in which he said, in effect, that market share
43 OB1504 : When do the flights start?
44 BA : It doesn't appear to be seasonal. From the time it resumes on October 25, flights are showing all the way until August of next year.
45 Intermodal64 : United's presence in South Florida seems very rational to me. While DEN, SFO, and ORD are very strong hubs for UA, they are far from MIA and are not g
46 Hiflyer : The upcoming sked change for MIA showing DEN is a route only planned for 5 months or less which is the max time UA can put a mainline aircraft into an
47 LACA773 : A lot of things UA does these days is not very understandable. They really destroyed what PA had in MIA. I'm still surprised VX decided to serve FLL o
48 MIASkies : MIA never got rid of UA "Mainline" employees as planned if I remember correctly; it never in essence became an "UAEx" station as MAH stated previousl
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