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CVG AD (life After Delta)  
User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 21
Posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6576 times:

I know there has been some discussion and speculation before in various threads on what CVG will be like when Delta pulls out, so I thought it might be easier if there was a dedicated thread to this discussion. So what type of service do you think CVG will have after Delta pulls the plug?

Having grown up around CVG, I'm so used to Delta everything, so while I'll miss the level of service the DL hub brought here, I'm excited to see what things will be like when all is said and done.

Personally, I don't think Southwest will swoop in and refill the 300-400 flight-a-day void that Delta will leave, but this is what I foresee:

DL to all their hubs
AA and UA adding is some mainline and a few additional cities, maybe LAX or LGA
B6 to the northeast and some florida routes
FL to the focus cities, florida routes and maybe a few other p2p flights
WN to the focus cities, some florida, and some western operations
F9 to DEN

....and then I foresee one of the majors or maybe a foreign carrier maintaining a daily link to at least one destination in Europe which the local Chambers of Commerce and businesses here will subsidize.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

DL will not "Pull out". Maybe de-hub, but stay as a "focus" due to good O & D.


I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7642 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6526 times:

If DL cut CVG-DFW, AA would probably go mainline on that route.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5912 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6521 times:
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If DL were to de-hub CVG, I think there's a good chance that WN will move in.

User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6476 times:



Quoting Flyguy89 (Thread starter):
FL to the focus cities, florida routes and maybe a few other p2p flights

What about DAY?


User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

I see CO has not yet been mentioned. I see them adding a NS to GUM.  Wink


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6375 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 4):
Quoting Flyguy89 (Thread starter):
FL to the focus cities, florida routes and maybe a few other p2p flights

What about DAY?



I think FL's operations at DAY are a little bloated from all the leakage they've traditionally gotten from CVG, but I think once the hub goes and fares decrease, FL will either move DAY operations to CVG or they'll add markets out of CVG based on the Cincinnati O/D alone.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 769 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

I would expect AA to add some mainline back to CVG. Especially to DFW. I had heard at one time that DFW-CVG-DFW was one of AE's biggest performers. Not sure if that's still true.

I think DL will keep LGA, ATL, DTW, MSP, MEM, SLC, LAX, JFK, MCO, BOS and DCA. The rest will go. Would they try a Paris run, al la PIT?

I think WN would add flights to BWI, MDW and maybe MCO or BNA, possibly STL.

B6 is a good bet to JFK and maybe BOS.

F9/Midwest to DEN/MKE probably at the expense of DAY.

FL: I could see BWI, MKE (maybe at the expense of DAY)

I see UA keeping its small mainline presence to ORD and maybe DEN.

I see CO and US remaining Express flights (maybe a PHL mainline on US)

I also think that terminal 2 would completely close leaving the Delta terminals (A&B) to handle all flights. I'd sure miss the convenience of terminal 2 and its po-dunk feel.  Smile


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

It's a shame because we could alway rely on CVG to do a better job at connecting cargo (especially across the pond) than any other hub that DL had. JFK was ok, ATL was a "black hole" but CVG could be relied on, if necessary, to do a same day connection on the international cargo.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6257 times:

I think CVG's days as a major hub in the DL system are obviously over, but I don't see the doomsday that some on here do. DL isn't going to cut back so much that they ignore the O/D base that is very heavy with corporate traffic (cough, P&G, cough). I would guess that CVG would be officially dehubbed within the next year or so, but I think it will still remain a strong focus city in the DL network, geared to the O/D market with incidental connections. My guess would be the following once all is said and done:

ATL x8
DTW x5
MSP x4
SLC x2
MEM x3
LGA x4
JFK x1
BOS x3
DCA x3
MCO x2
TPA x1
FLL x1
LAX x2
LAS x1
SFO x1
CDG 5x weekly
CUN 1x weekly

I think there's a chance DL may even run one or two daily flights on Connection metal to some strong East Coast cities, i.e. PHL, BDL, RDU, etc...


User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6254 times:



Quoting Seatback (Reply 7):
Would they try a Paris run, al la PIT?

I don't know if it would be DL to Paris or LH to FRA but I know that CVG will always have at least one non-stop link to Europe, the business community (P&G, Chiquita, Fidelity, Toyota, Mazak...etc) here demands it. It will probably be more a la RDU with subsidies at first, although I think the route would ultimately do well with the O&D and yields from here as long as there was feed on the other end.


User currently offlineCle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

CVG-CLE service returns on CO


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineGxman From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

I thought DL was dropping or cutting back CVG-DCA with the slot sale to US. I read that US was going to start DCA-CVG.


Steve
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9508 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5923 times:



Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 9):
JFK x1

2 or 3 daily.

Quoting Gxman (Reply 12):
I thought DL was dropping or cutting back CVG-DCA with the slot sale to US. I read that US was going to start DCA-CVG.

That doesn't mean Delta will be changing the CVG flights. Alot of people assume it will be cut though(on here which is likely thats where you saw it) It will likely stay 2-3x daily with mostly CR9s.



yep.
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5855 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
2 or 3 daily.

I don't see why they would keep three flights on JFK. LGA, especially with the upcoming increased service there, would serve the O/D market. The JFK flight would likely just serve to feed the international connection bank.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5810 times:



Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 14):
The JFK flight would likely just serve to feed the international connection bank.

...which would probably become larger if they drop the Europe flights and there are still a bunch of Delta FFers in Cincinnati.

Quoting Flyguy89 (Reply 10):
I don't know if it would be DL to Paris or LH to FRA but I know that CVG will always have at least one non-stop link to Europe, the business community (P&G, Chiquita, Fidelity, Toyota, Mazak...etc) here demands it.

I've been thinking the same thing about St. Louis for a while, and a number of things have kept it from happening.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 9):
I think CVG's days as a major hub in the DL system are obviously over, but I don't see the doomsday that some on here do.

I have to agree. I think CVG will not become the ghost town (like STL) that some seem to envision.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Maybe with the AA/BA ATI, AA could start CVG-LHR with a 752?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7642 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5623 times:



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 16):
Maybe with the AA/BA ATI, AA could start CVG-LHR with a 752?

If DL abandoned all nonstop service to Europe from CVG, that might happen. But as long as CVG-CDG is there, AA/BA wont go for it.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineORDnHKG From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4285 times:



Quoting Seatback (Reply 7):
I see UA keeping its small mainline presence to ORD and maybe DEN.


What do you mean by UA keeping mainline to ORD ?

There is no UA mainline from CVG to ORD since last year, it had all been using ERD and CR7, especially since UA is going to retire all 737. CVG never have enough loads for UA to use mainline at all like 320 or 319, they would rather use it for similiar distance to MSP instead.


User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4143 times:



Quoting ORDnHKG (Reply 18):
Quoting Seatback (Reply 7):
I see UA keeping its small mainline presence to ORD and maybe DEN.


What do you mean by UA keeping mainline to ORD ?

There is no UA mainline from CVG to ORD since last year, it had all been using ERD and CR7, especially since UA is going to retire all 737. CVG never have enough loads for UA to use mainline at all like 320 or 319, they would rather use it for similiar distance to MSP instead.

Chicago (O'Hare), IL (ORD) to Cincinnati, OH (CVG) - September 8, 2009
Depart Arrive Via Duration Flight numbers Aircraft Info
6:51am 9:07am 1h16m UA5979 CRJ Info
9:21am 11:30am 1h09m UA5752 CRJ Info
11:53am 2:02pm 1h09m UA7421 CR7 Info
1:38pm 3:53pm 1h15m UA7419 CR7 Info
2:40pm 4:49pm 1h09m UA7898 ER4 Info
4:21pm 6:30pm 1h09m UA7884 ER4 Info
6:53pm 9:03pm 1h10m UA398 320 Info
9:22pm 11:31pm 1h09m UA7930 ER4 Info

Cincinnati, OH (CVG) to Chicago (O'Hare), IL (ORD) - September 9, 2009
Depart Arrive Via Duration Flight numbers Aircraft Info
6:03am 6:20am 1h17m UA7907 ER4 Info
7:55am 8:11am 1h16m UA489 320 Info
9:33am 9:50am 1h17m UA5979 CRJ Info
12:50pm 1:07pm 1h17m UA5752 CRJ Info
3:23pm 3:40pm 1h17m UA5894 CR7 Info
5:25pm 5:42pm 1h17m UA7898 ER4 Info
6:58pm 7:15pm 1h17m UA7884 ER4 Info
7:49pm 8:09pm 1h20m UA7925 ER4 Info

One flight a day mainline still counts as mainline.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 769 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

I thought UA still had mainline here. I am however surprised to see that UA has 8 flights to ORD. With AA and DL also on the route, that's a lot of seats.

User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3062 times:



Quoting Seatback (Reply 20):
I thought UA still had mainline here. I am however surprised to see that UA has 8 flights to ORD. With AA and DL also on the route, that's a lot of seats.

it's a pretty high-yield route with solid demand, and plus you have the connecting opportunities AA and UA have at ORD.


User currently offlineSkyway1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Just transited through CVG the past few weekends. Sad to see what the airport has dwindled down to. Great airport to connect thru.

Having worked at DAY for years I was used to all the leakage we had from the tri-state area. Many of Delta's pax would drive up to DAY just to transit back through CVG.

I guess the only *slight* positive with a DL drawdown is that CVG might finally be a viable o/d option for poor schmucks like me. DAY fares have gotten ridicilulous and the drive to CMH can be a pain in the arse....


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

looking into the future, EWR is still going to be served 4-5x daily with ERJ/CRJ. EWR isn't the only station (phl, bdl, bwi) that is holding onto their frequencies. Its much like AA in STL in which they still fly ERJs to some east coast cities (ewr, iad, phl..)


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2810 times:



Quoting Flyguy89 (Reply 6):
FL will either move DAY operations to CVG or they'll add markets out of CVG based on the Cincinnati O/D alone.

FL opened DTW up well after FNT was established. They haven't pulled FNT down. For similar reasons DAY won't get pulled down. There's a lot of traffic north of both CVG and DTW, but there's also a market for the carrier at CVG and DTW.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I think CVG will not become the ghost town (like STL) that some seem to envision.

It already looks that way. T1 - closed. Concourse C - closed. The remainder of T3 is under utilized now.

The KCAB should be consolidating the airport into T3. The problem is the contract they have with Delta. Until the current contract is renegotiated, DL controls the future of CVG. Even if they dehub.


User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 21
Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2383 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 24):
FL opened DTW up well after FNT was established. They haven't pulled FNT down. For similar reasons DAY won't get pulled down. There's a lot of traffic north of both CVG and DTW, but there's also a market for the carrier at CVG and DTW.

I don't believe FL will leave DAY, though it could be a possibility if they want to consolidate operations. As stated, DAY and the northern area have plenty O/D for FL to service. But I do not believe, as some have stated, that FL will just stay at DAY and not enter CVG.

Quoting Toltommy (Reply 24):
It already looks that way. T1 - closed. Concourse C - closed. The remainder of T3 is under utilized now.

The KCAB should be consolidating the airport into T3. The problem is the contract they have with Delta. Until the current contract is renegotiated, DL controls the future of CVG. Even if they dehub.


I agree, but if DL pulls out prematurely before the contract period ends, DL will still have to pay the KCAB fees for the land T3 is on, which is a nice little clause for CVG.


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