JetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 385 posts, RR: 6 Posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 19197 times:
To all employees:
"Over the past several months, we have seen a significant increase in pass irregularities from other airline employees. Unfortunately, the most recent event was covered extensively by the media; and as it turns out, it was a nonrevenue pass rider. Pass privileges are just that, a privilege, and can be suspended or taken away if we see abuse. Therefore, effective immediately, and for an undetermined amount of time, FedEx nonrevenue travelers with a ticket issue date later than August 28 will not be eligible for nonrevenue travel on Southwest Airlines. Because tickets were issued prior to the expiration date, please continue to accept the tickets that are currently in circulation for the next 90 days. Please understand that we very rarely embargo an entire carrier due to pass abuse; however, the severity and the cost to the Company of the most recent event warrants this punitive action.
Although travel privileges on Southwest Airlines have been suspended for FedEx employees, this in no way affects the discount Southwest Employees have with FedEx."
I've heard of individuals losing their non-rev benefits but never a whole company. Anyone else ever heard of something like this? And anyone know of what other irregularities that have occured besides the infamous big naked dude that caused the diversion?
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
Atlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1015 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18877 times:
The only thing i can think of is that there was a rash of incidents involving FedEx employees. Usually the companies just notify the offending company and that individual is dealt with. Its crap like this that ruins Non-rev travel for the rest of us. People need to understand it is not a right it is a privilege and you need to uphold yourself and your companion as well to a standard HIGHER then the average passenger, particularly if its not even your own company. Hopefully the issue can be resolved and the Fedex employees will be able to continue to ride because for alot of there pilots they use Southwest and a host of other carriers to commute let alone travel for leisure.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18845 times:
There was another thread on this last week started by FXRamper..... I can't seem to find it though....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
KL911 From Hungary, joined Jul 2003, 4437 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18806 times:
Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18791 times:
I have actually supported bringing back the service charge fees on our own airlines for a while now. When I was working at AS, it used to be $8 OW in coach and $25 OW in FC.
I think it is time to bring them back.... This is another way to cover some of the costs to occupy open seats....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18743 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2): There was another thread on this last week started by FXRamper..... I can't seem to find it though....
I think it was deleted because it was unverified, i.e. he wouldn't (and undoubted couldn't) re-post the internal memo he received. Now that someone has re-posted what was on SWA's employee site, the cat's out of the bag and it's thus confirmed.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18677 times:
Quoting JetBlue (Thread starter): I've heard of individuals losing their non-rev benefits but never a whole company
It is more than likley the thug "hubites" that thow boxes in the hub that are cauing the trouble..FedEx used to pre 9/11 allow all employees to ride the jumpseat even in the cockpit. I heard a funny story from a co-worker that some woman who worked in the hub sat in the F/E's seat and when the second officer did his walk around and came back she wouldn't let him have the seat she said "uh uh this is my seat" lol..I know the pilots are glad that jumpseat was taken away from all but those who hold an airman cert..
AAAL From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18646 times:
Wow, now that is bad. Any idea what did the fedex guy do?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18621 times:
Quoting AAAL (Reply 7): Any idea what did the fedex guy do?
From what FXRamper said in his original thread was that two employees pitched a fit to a gate agent. I have seen CO employees pitching a fit at the gate in SEA before trying to non-rev on AS to JNU many, many times.....
It is not the first time something similar to this has happened, nor will it be the last time. Common Sense prevails.....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18593 times:
Quoting AAAL (Reply 7): Wow, now that is bad. Any idea what did the fedex guy do?
As mentioned in the news coverage, he exposed himself to a female passenger, and also took off all his clothes before being restrained. The OAK-LAS flight turned around and went back to OAK.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18493 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9): As mentioned in the news coverage, he exposed himself to a female passenger, and also took off all his clothes before being restrained. The OAK-LAS flight turned around and went back to OAK.
I thought that was a totally different situation....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Bcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18469 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):
As mentioned in the news coverage, he exposed himself to a female passenger, and also took off all his clothes before being restrained. The OAK-LAS flight turned around and went back to OAK.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18314 times:
I'm not sure why FedEx is hitching rides on WN anyways. So let me get this straight. FedEx employees are getting flights on Southwest, and Southwest employees are getting 10% off ground shipping? And to top it off, these strokes are trying to play games and exploit something?
YVPHX From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18254 times:
That is unfortunate for Southwest employees that they only get 10% off on shipping. I get 65% I and I work for the worst airline in the world..
PITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2328 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18211 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 13): FedEx employees are getting flights on Southwest, and Southwest employees are getting 10% off ground shipping?
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18182 times:
It may not be 10%, I'm not totally sure to be honest. But whatever it is I'll gladly trade it in to be able to ride with the boxes on a FedEx flight.
PWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 514 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18151 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 3): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
Is the fuel for flying an extra 200 pounds significant?
Do dispatchers really look and say, "Oh, there's 147 instead of 146 passengers, better throw on more fuel"?
To me it seems that extra 200 pounds is insignificant and it costs the airline absolutely nothing.
But maybe they DO actually take that extra passenger into account when getting fuel costs, and if I'm dead wrong, correct me.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18150 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 13): ...FedEx employees are getting flights on Southwest...
Are we talking about ANY FedEx employee or just the ones who work airport ops?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17889 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 3): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
Because nonrev travel, for the most part, is what makes working for an airline attractive. If they took that away, they'd better start paying us much better
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3855 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17888 times:
Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 17): To me it seems that extra 200 pounds is insignificant and it costs the airline absolutely nothing.
Well its not "nothing"... besides the incremental fuel costs (depending on plane type and number of passengers, it is likely into the several $ range for an average transcon), there are also the added time of adding reservations, clearing the standbys at the gate, plus any drinks/food that the airline may offer. It all adds up.
Look, I'm not advocating that airlines start charging their own employees for flights (its sort of a slap in the face I think) but you've got to call a spade a spade. It's not free.
Cle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 961 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17811 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 19): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
Its a trade off for low pay (at some airlines) working nights, holidays weekends etc etc.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 14244 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17781 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 3): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate?
It's part of the employees' compensation. Nonrev benefits already allow the industry to pay substandard wages (combined with the value of travel benefits it should be more equal), so a cut to those benefits is a cut in compensation.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17742 times:
Quoting Richierich (Reply 20): Look, I'm not advocating that airlines start charging their own employees for flights...
The airlines had removed the service fee charges for employees on their own airline after 9/11. Again, I'd welcome the surcharges back. Not everything is free....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3855 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17600 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23): The airlines had removed the service fee charges for employees on their own airline after 9/11. Again, I'd welcome the surcharges back. Not everything is free....
That's fine - and your opinion. I'm sure plenty of people don't agree with this opinion, such as myself, but it doesn't matter what we think of it.
N200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 771 posts, RR: 9 Reply 25, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17604 times:
For the record, Pilots and Dispatchers riding jumpseat are not included in the embargo.
Dvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1710 posts, RR: 14 Reply 26, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18938 times:
Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 6): It is more than likley the thug "hubites" that thow boxes in the hub that are cauing the trouble..FedEx used to pre 9/11 allow all employees to ride the jumpseat even in the cockpit. I heard a funny story from a co-worker that some woman who worked in the hub sat in the F/E's seat and when the second officer did his walk around and came back she wouldn't let him have the seat she said "uh uh this is my seat" lol..I know the pilots are glad that jumpseat was taken away from all but those who hold an airman cert..
I thought FedEx changed their nonrev policies after FX 705 such that jumpseating by FX employees became very difficult to do?
Unfortunately my memory is a bit at a loss on this one, so if someone could help fill in I would appreciate it.
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4703 posts, RR: 22 Reply 27, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18908 times:
Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 17): To me it seems that extra 200 pounds is insignificant and it costs the airline absolutely nothing.
Dead wrong!
When CX started running their silver bullets (shaving off 200KG/440lbs per frame) they saved HK$2.8M (US$361,000) per year. That was at May 2006 fuel prices and exchange rates. Given the sheer number of flights and frames WN operates the cost to them of non-rev pax is significant. It's a shame certain FXers have screwed this up for their colleagues.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18732 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 25): For the record, Pilots and Dispatchers riding jumpseat are not included in the embargo.
PITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 5 Reply 29, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18421 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 28): Who exactly does the embargo apply to then?
Anyone using the Fedex nonrev passes that are issued for WN travel. Which is usually ground workers.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 30, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18360 times:
Quoting PITops (Reply 29): Which is usually ground workers.
You mean airport ops workers, not the FedEx home delivery folks, right?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
PITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 5 Reply 31, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18112 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 30): You mean airport ops workers, not the FedEx home delivery folks, right?
Yes. I don't think FedEx Ground employees could use those benefits. It was just for ground workers at FedEx locations at airports.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 32, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17985 times:
N200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 771 posts, RR: 9 Reply 33, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18127 times:
Before everyone comes down too hard on FedEx employees, note that the memo above (which, as an internal memo should not have been posted here) states that there has been an increase in irregularities from "other airline" employees. FedEx was embargoed because of the severity of this incident. I run into FX nonrevs all the time and, with one exception, they have been great. I appreciate the pass agreement between WN and FX as I often use the discount for overnight letters.
N200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 771 posts, RR: 9 Reply 34, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18004 times:
Quoting PITops (Reply 31): Yes. I don't think FedEx Ground employees could use those benefits. It was just for ground workers at FedEx locations at airports.
It's not just for FX airport workers. I drop off items at the main FedEx shipping location in San Antonio, away from the airport, and the employees there tell me they use the flight benefits often.
ERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 241 posts, RR: 3 Reply 35, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17968 times:
As I understand it, all direct employees of FedEx (airport ops, delivery, corporate, etc...) have non-rev benefits with most airlines. In return, employees of the other carriers get interline rates on FedEx shipping. This is not talking about dead-heading crew members, this is about standby travel privileges. It is similar to a ZED agreement.
As a side note, I asked a FedEx Kinko's employee about her benefits. She said she does not get to non-rev on OA, but her husband, a FedEx driver, does because he works for the FedEx corporation and not a subsidiary (like Kinko's). I'm sure someone else on here will be able to verify this.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 36, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17955 times:
I'm annoyed that FedEx ground workers were ever getting flight benefits on Southwest to begin with. Nothing personal against those particular individuals, but I was always under the impression that pass agreements were sort of a reciprocal thing. I don't think getting a discount for shipping a box is an adequate trade off for a free flight. All I know about FedEx is from the movie "Castaway", when Tom Hank's character was able to fly on FedEx flights. Is that really how it works? Can FedEx employees fly around on those flights? If that's the case, let us fly on the FedEx flights, then I don't have a problem with letting FedEx people fly on us.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 37, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17774 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 35): As I understand it, all direct employees of FedEx (airport ops, delivery, corporate, etc...) have non-rev benefits with most airlines.
If that is the case, then that is not necessarily fair to the rest of the airline employees. Delivery (door to door) folks are not airport workers so why should they get them? That is so wrong, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
N200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 771 posts, RR: 9 Reply 38, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17799 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 36): I'm annoyed that FedEx ground workers were ever getting flight benefits on Southwest to begin with.
I'm not annoyed. The WN Pass Bureau must have thought it was a fair deal, and I like and use the discount. Overnight letters are a little higher now, but for many years it was just five bucks to send an overnight letter for next day delivery. I appreciate the agreements that we have and letting FX employees non-rev for $25 one-way is no skin off my back.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 39, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17681 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 38): I'm not annoyed. The WN Pass Bureau must have thought it was a fair deal, and I like and use the discount. Overnight letters are a little higher now, but for many years it was just five bucks to send an overnight letter for next day delivery. I appreciate the agreements that we have and letting FX employees non-rev for $25 one-way is no skin off my back.
Don't you think it's a little bit uneven? What do you save, a few bucks for shipping an envelope? And these guys are getting flights that cost hundreds of dollars for $25?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 40, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17591 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 33): Before everyone comes down too hard on FedEx employees, note that the memo above (which, as an internal memo should not have been posted here) states that there has been an increase in irregularities from "other airline" employees. FedEx was embargoed because of the severity of this incident. I run into FX nonrevs all the time and, with one exception, they have been great. I appreciate the pass agreement between WN and FX as I often use the discount for overnight letters.
PITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2328 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17508 times:
If one ships often, a 75% discount on premium shipping will be enough to outright buy a positive space ticket on WN.
If anything is uneven, it is against FX. Its not like your substantially discounted letters are "space available". In other words, they will get delivered just like all the other packages. Can't say the same about a standby ticket.
PITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 5 Reply 42, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17453 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 33): Before everyone comes down too hard on FedEx employees, note that the memo above (which, as an internal memo should not have been posted here) states that there has been an increase in irregularities from "other airline" employees. FedEx was embargoed because of the severity of this incident. I run into FX nonrevs all the time and, with one exception, they have been great. I appreciate the pass agreement between WN and FX as I often use the discount for overnight letters.
I have never had a problem with the ones that fly thru PIT.
7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 619 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17396 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 39):
Don't you think it's a little bit uneven? What do you save, a few bucks for shipping an envelope? And these guys are getting flights that cost hundreds of dollars for $25?
It bugs me, I can't help it..
If you don't ship a lot I suppose it would bug you.
But when I send packages internationally at the holidays - I usually pay $75-200 dollars with the discount. I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.
Therefore it doesn't bug me ... if the seat is open - come aboard!!!
JetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 385 posts, RR: 6 Reply 44, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17084 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 33): note that the memo above (which, as an internal memo should not have been posted here)
First of all, I don't work for WN and this was a notice that went out to 13,000+ WN employees, along with everyone at FedEx who previously had benefits on WN. It wasn't marked confidential and for all you know it was posted at the airport for all FX employees to read.
We're not dealing with trade secrets here or one on one phone conversations wtih Gary Kelly. I'm pretty sure if you called the pr people over at WN, they'd read the same statement to you.
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
Jlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 585 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16969 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22): It's part of the employees' compensation. Nonrev benefits already allow the industry to pay substandard wages (combined with the value of travel benefits it should be more equal), so a cut to those benefits is a cut in compensation.
A little off topic, but......dose this mean that you pay taxes on the Nonrev portion of your compensation package? If so, how is it calculated?
Luvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 417 posts, RR: 6 Reply 46, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16924 times:
We pay taxes on Non-rev travel for off-line travel. We pay taxes on the buddy passes that are issued to give to friends.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 47, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16838 times:
Quoting JetBlue (Reply 45): this was a notice that went out to 13,000+ WN employees,
However it was disseminated at FDX aside, it was issued here as a mention in Today@SWA, a daily e-newsletter, and the prohibitions for its re-use are right there at the bottom of the e-newsletter, as any employee knows.
One of these days, someone will again post stuff that's not supposed to be cut-and-pasted into a public forum, and the reaction may well be to change the official policy to then prohibit all employee participation in blogs/forums etc. (like already exist at some outfits). Should this ever happen here, the vast majority who complied with the old policy will suffer for the sins of a few that didn't, and SWAers like myself will be outta here rather than risk the consequences.
ERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 241 posts, RR: 3 Reply 48, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16570 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37): If that is the case, then that is not necessarily fair to the rest of the airline employees. Delivery (door to door) folks are not airport workers so why should they get them? That is so wrong, IMO.
By that logic non-airport employees of airlines shouldn't be allowed to purchase standby travel on other airlines.... dispatchers, maintenance, accounting, corporate, sales... I don't think that policy would go over too well at any airline.
Besides, these are not free tickets. They are standby passes that are purchased, and low priority standby on top of that. Yes, you do pay taxes too. Most standby travellers are not choosing to fly standby instead of buying a ticket, therefore the airline is not losing money on ticket sales.
N200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 771 posts, RR: 9 Reply 49, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16382 times:
Quoting JetBlue (Reply 45): I don't work for WN and this was a notice that went out to 13,000+ WN employees
Yes, it was sent to all WN employees, as an internal memo.
Quoting JetBlue (Reply 45): along with everyone at FedEx who previously had benefits on WN
I doubt this was the same letter that was sent to FedEx employees, as the context of the letter is giving specific instructions to WN CSA's on how to handle the passes, as shown below:
Quoting JetBlue (Thread starter): Because tickets were issued prior to the expiration date, please continue to accept the tickets that are currently in circulation
Quoting JetBlue (Reply 45): I'm pretty sure if you called the pr people over at WN, they'd read the same statement to you.
That may be so, but let it come from the PR folks after they make the decision to go public.
Lincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 10 Reply 50, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16262 times:
Quoting YOWza (Reply 27): When CX started running their silver bullets (shaving off 200KG/440lbs per frame) they saved HK$2.8M (US$361,000) per year.
Ok, I have to ask... was that savings per frame or total?
Even if the savings was per frame it's still probably not the best comparison as that 440lbs of paint is something that's missing from every flight. Nonrevs aren't on every single flight (perhaps they are on some routes, but generally speaking)
Lincoln
(Never benefited a nonrev)
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 516 posts, RR: 1 Reply 52, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15620 times:
First off, FedEx has interline agreements for both revenue business travel as well as non-rev personal travel. Not only does FedEx send considerable business to Southwest and other passenger carriers, FedEx also offers 75% discounts on FedEx shipping to interline employees. It is unfortunate that a few individuals who do not understand the etiquette and protocols of non-rev travel can ruin the reputation and agreement of an entire airlines employees. This is not the first time something like this has happened. Hopefully, the persons who abused their privileges will be identified and receive appropriate attention from their peers as well as Management.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 53, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15460 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 28): Who exactly does the embargo apply to then?
The embargo applies to all FedEx workers except pilots and dispatchers who use the jumpseat option and my understanding is that it is not permanent just a suspension.
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 39): Don't you think it's a little bit uneven? What do you save, a few bucks for shipping an envelope? And these guys are getting flights that cost hundreds of dollars for $25?
It bugs me, I can't help it..
I don't know why it bothers you. You could save a lot depending on how much you ship..But even at that I am sure our boarding priority is very low so you would get on way before I would.
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 36): All I know about FedEx is from the movie "Castaway", when Tom Hank's character was able to fly on FedEx flights. Is that really how it works? Can FedEx employees fly around on those flights? If that's the case, let us fly on the FedEx flights, then I don't have a problem with letting FedEx people fly on us
Those seats are jumpseats even though they are outside the cockpit they are still considered jumpseats. The only ones at FedEx that can ride in those outside the cockpit jumpseats are either company business or employees who work in AOD airline ops can do what is called "staging" meaning if they live somewhere else they can commute but only between those two cities. Finally for personal travel within the 50 states it is limited to FedEx employees who hold a federal airman certificate AND they have to be working in a position that requires it so that means pilots, dispatchers and aircraft mechanics.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3475 posts, RR: 44 Reply 54, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15134 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 36): Can FedEx employees fly around on those flights? If that's the case, let us fly on the FedEx flights, then I don't have a problem with letting FedEx people fly on us.
Maybe WN employees can't nonrev on FedEx flights, but there are other airline employees who can. IIRC Rebecca Shaw, the FO on Colgan 3407 commuted from her home in SEA to EWR on a FedEx flight (through MEM).
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 756 posts, RR: 5 Reply 55, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15031 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23): The airlines had removed the service fee charges for employees on their own airline after 9/11. Again, I'd welcome the surcharges back. Not everything is free....
How many times have you had your base involuntarily changed and thus forced to commute using your pass benefits? Talk to OH folks about how it has affected them just having their priority changed. Pass benefits are there for a reason. You will not see a change in the policies as it will cause labor unrest that the industry doesn't need right now.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11685 posts, RR: 8 Reply 56, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13902 times:
When something goes out to many 1000's of employees at a company, there is bound to be some leaks. In this case, this disclosure does not release any particular security information, but a very broad statement as to the embargo, probably written by the public relations department and lawyers. The leak may be an 'allowable' one, to get the message out those that use or have access to non-rev privileges (incluing 'buddy passes', if that applies as to FedEx and WN) that serious violations have occured and there are penalties for misbehavior under such passes. That at least 2 violations of pass privilege behavor as to FedEx-WN were well publicized in the news media, the leaks could be a way to placate the public that we don't tolarate such behavior and will do with it takes to prevent it in the future.
Canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 58, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13504 times:
Just my .02. In the 3+ years I worked as a CSA I had dozens of FedEx employees non-rev on the airline I used to work for. In that time I used the FX discount exactly 2 times. At the time it was 75% of the express shipping cost.
I can't remember any time that a FX employee acted in a manor that could cause a problem with their agreement with our carrier, but... Had I acted, or a number of employees of the carrier I worked for acted in the manner that FX employees have over the past few months at another carrier like CO, US, or UA to name a few, I have no doubt I wouldn't be allowed to fly on a pass bureau or local agreement if it was anyone other than FX.
I've read this thread and it's apparent that pilots/FA wouldn't care as much as CSAs. In my opinion pilots and FAs have many more travel options than CSAs, yet we have to sort the madness before everyone gets on the plane. I'm not singling out FX people, but I guarentee than on an idividual basis I wouldn't be able to travel on CO if I acted that way.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2175 posts, RR: 15 Reply 59, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12841 times:
I have to admit that I only had time to read about half of the thread so if I say something that has already been said there ya go. I think I have a perspective that a lot of people on here don't have and because I happen to be in upper management it sometimes conflicts A LOT with what others here think.
So on this matter I think that I would be with most that actually work in this industry in saying that nonrev benefits are just that benefits and NOT a privilege. ALL OF US work in this crazy industry that has a long history of never making a single penny. (True stat: If you look at airlines overall since dereg in the USA you will find that OVERALL they have never turned a profit. Reasons you find this can be argued but that you find this to me is significant!) We do it because we love the industry and we love our travel benefits! We take a major cut in our pay because we get to do what most don't and that is hop on any plane anytime going anywhere as long as its going with an empty seat. Even in the executive level of management I still take a pay cut to be able to have those benefits. Granted my benefits are a little different than a ramp agent but I just like that ramp agent do take a pay cut that is probably around the same percent as compared to similar jobs in other industries. I don't work in HR so I don't get to make the decisions about memos going out constantly telling our employees that they are "privileges" but you can be sure I ALWAYS respond to the HR person on my level that it is crap and I don't agree. (Most of the time with a response that tells me to STFU and how are the kids!)
So my point to all of you is ITS NOT A PRIVILEGE and don't let anyone tell you that it is, it is a benefit just like your health insurance and you should consider it part of your compensation package and NEVER forget that or it will be the next thing you lose!
Quoting KL911 (Reply 3): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
Like I said above we give everything to our airline and we deserve it. Take it away and they will have to pay us what we would make elsewhere.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4): I have actually supported bringing back the service charge fees on our own airlines for a while now. When I was working at AS, it used to be $8 OW in coach and $25 OW in FC.
I think it is time to bring them back.... This is another way to cover some of the costs to occupy open seats....
Wow I think that comment is not well thought out! Frontier has an amazing company atmosphere and most of that comes from treating everyone like they are in a family. I think the new owners doing this would cause a HUGE amount of resentment. I am very proud to say I put in a few years of service with F9, a GREAT airline, and will ALWAYS be very happy and proud of my lifetime F9 FREE flight benefits.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8): From what FXRamper said in his original thread was that two employees pitched a fit to a gate agent. I have seen CO employees pitching a fit at the gate in SEA before trying to non-rev on AS to JNU many, many times.....
It is not the first time something similar to this has happened, nor will it be the last time. Common Sense prevails....
As a nonrev we have to know the rules we fly under and accept them. When we go to a different airline our rules HAVE to be whatever they say we do! Even if we know it not to be true we are guests are their airline and we have to suck it up. My benefits allow me to fly in first class as an SA1 at most of the carriers in the US but there have been many times I was put behind SA2/3 employees from their own airline incorrectly and I just have to shut my mouth and take it. That is what you do when you are flying OAL.
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9): As mentioned in the news coverage, he exposed himself to a female passenger, and also took off all his clothes before being restrained. The OAK-LAS flight turned around and went back to OAK.
WOW! He should be arrested, convicted, fired, and never fly on another WN aircraft in his life. I hope that WN comes around and changes things to allow FX again because we all know that they transport a lot of us but that will be up to how FX handles this. I do have to say that WN is one of the most accommodating airlines to OAL and maybe they have to change that.............?
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 13): I'm not sure why FedEx is hitching rides on WN anyways. So let me get this straight. FedEx employees are getting flights on Southwest, and Southwest employees are getting 10% off ground shipping? And to top it off, these strokes are trying to play games and exploit something?
Take a hike FedEx..
You only get 10%....? Im sorry! I think the rest of us ship everything for next to nothing!
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 60, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12782 times:
Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 59): Wow I think that comment is not well thought out!
Actually, it was. Anything I can do to help my airline generate more revenue, I would absolutely give back $10 or $25 out of my paycheck per flight.
Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 59): I am very proud to say I put in a few years of service with F9, a GREAT airline, and will ALWAYS be very happy
I absolutely share that same sentiment as well!
Quoting 727forever (Reply 55): How many times have you had your base involuntarily changed and thus forced to commute using your pass benefits?
ZERO times. I am not in Inflight, and never was and never will. My point was that there absolutely was a service charge BEFORE 9/11 occurred.
Quoting ERJ (Reply 48): By that logic non-airport employees of airlines shouldn't be allowed to purchase standby travel on other airlines....
I think you are taking that a bit excessive here. I meant that workers that are NOT affiliated with the airport ops, such as FedEx delivery drivers (in this case, who cannot claim they work for an airline.....) who have absolutely ZERO affiliation with the air freight ops should not have flight benefits whatsoever. They are under a totally different division, and that is ground services. That is where I stand. People who work for the airline, who do not even possess a valid SIDA badge should be allowed the privilege to have flight benefits.
Quoting ERJ (Reply 48): Most standby travellers are not choosing to fly standby instead of buying a ticket, therefore the airline is not losing money on ticket sales.
Yes, in a way. That seat is still worth no matter what.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4001 posts, RR: 48 Reply 61, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12389 times:
It's unusual that a whole company (FedEx) suffers for the actions of 2 or 3 individuals.
I think there is more behind this. Probably WN feels FedEx hasn't been outspoken enough to condemn the actions of these individuals. I am sure they wait for some sort of gesture from FedEx and then welcome the non revs back on board.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1990 posts, RR: 10 Reply 62, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12215 times:
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5672 posts, RR: 9 Reply 64, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12006 times:
Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 58): In my opinion pilots and FAs have many more travel options than CSAs, yet we have to sort the madness before everyone gets on the plane.
At what airline or airlines do pilots and FA's have more travel options than CSA's? None that I know of if you exclude the jump seat.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 2575 posts, RR: 2 Reply 65, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11916 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 47): Quoting JetBlue (Reply 45):
this was a notice that went out to 13,000+ WN employees,
However it was disseminated at FDX aside, it was issued here as a mention in Today@SWA, a daily e-newsletter, and the prohibitions for its re-use are right there at the bottom of the e-newsletter, as any employee knows.
One of these days, someone will again post stuff that's not supposed to be cut-and-pasted into a public forum, and the reaction may well be to change the official policy to then prohibit all employee participation in blogs/forums etc. (like already exist at some outfits). Should this ever happen here, the vast majority who complied with the old policy will suffer for the sins of a few that didn't, and SWAers like myself will be outta here rather than risk the consequences.
Rule 1, if you want anything to stay confidential, never put it in writing to more than a handfull of people.
In the UK we have a long history of information leaking from Government departments, much of which is deliberately done by either the Government, or its supporters, in order to place things into the public domain, which support their case.
Thus as a generalisation I would say that anyhting distributed to the workforce of two major organisations will never stay confidential.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 60): I think you are taking that a bit excessive here. I meant that workers that are NOT affiliated with the airport ops, such as FedEx delivery drivers (in this case, who cannot claim they work for an airline.....) who have absolutely ZERO affiliation with the air freight ops should not have flight benefits whatsoever. They are under a totally different division, and that is ground services. That is where I stand. People who work for the airline, who do not even possess a valid SIDA badge should be allowed the privilege to have flight benefits.
If Fed Ex and Southwest were happy for these privileges to apply to all directly employed staff, why should anyone else be upset about it?
As to the overall situation, it seems to be an overraction for these privileges to be withdrawn over a small number of incidents. Perhaps Southwest have had a think about this and reached the conculsion that FedEx employees do far better out of the deal than Southwest employees.
Finally, how long will the situation remain where Southwest staff keep their FedEx discount, with nothing being offered in exchange, as I'm sure there must be irregularities in thta direction as well. 75% discount is a good incentive to do your friends mailing for them.
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1106 posts, RR: 19 Reply 66, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11500 times:
Quoting JetBlue (Thread starter): Although travel privileges on Southwest Airlines have been suspended for FedEx employees, this in no way affects the discount Southwest Employees have with FedEx."
I would fully support FedEx removing SWA from the shipping discount. Pretty unfair to the remaining FedEx employees to use the shotgun approach by SWA. Perhaps if FedEx would revoke the shipping discount for SWA it would provide some leverage in the return of non-rev travel to the FedEx employees.
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1990 posts, RR: 10 Reply 67, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11157 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 65): If Fed Ex and Southwest were happy for these privileges to apply to all directly employed staff, why should anyone else be upset about it?
Ding!
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 66): I would fully support FedEx removing SWA from the shipping discount. Pretty unfair to the remaining FedEx employees to use the shotgun approach by SWA. Perhaps if FedEx would revoke the shipping discount for SWA it would provide some leverage in the return of non-rev travel to the FedEx employees.
Why start a pissing contest? The priveleges are only suspended, not discontinued. Let the two companies fix it between themselves. SWA can't just let folks with a history of being disruptive keep being. IMO, SWA is just stopping the problem until it's fixed.
I would imagine the FDX management has some assertive advise for it's folks as to behavior and it's impact on the company reputation. There were a couple freaks in the mix, that made it hard on the good folks. It will pass.
Think about what you are saying.
"If FDX employees can't strip down and flash people at another airline, then that airline shouldn't get any FDX benifits."
Looks a little wierd from that perspective, eh?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 756 posts, RR: 5 Reply 68, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11062 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 60): ZERO times. I am not in Inflight, and never was and never will. My point was that there absolutely was a service charge BEFORE 9/11 occurred.
Exactly. This qualifies your statements too. I have been displaced 5 times in my career to another base and I'm still only in my 30's. Am I supposed to sell the house and move each and everytime? If so, that will cost the company more after they pay my moving expenses than to just keep the travel benefits so I can commute to the new base.
If you want apples and apples, ok, give me pre-9/11 service charges. However, if you do be ready because I will strike to get back pre-9/11 pay rates. Those service charges will end up costing the company far greater as my pay rate will jump over 40%. The airlines don't want to charge service fees nor do they want the IRS to tax travel benefits because even they know the result will be extreme increases in labor expenses.
I know your response will be something about me willing to strike and drag down the company, blah, blah, blah, but I and most other employees have had enough. I love my job too, but it simply isn't worth doing for less compensation. I love flying airplanes, but I do it for the airlines and demand the high compensation due to the personal liability, the crazy hours, flying when I would rather not fly (think crummy weather), and travel to dangerous places. We know that AirframeAS won't strike, but the rest of us will and adding these fees back in would just push us towards the edge.
I reckon FX will probably respond and will end the discount for WN. This will probably go for a few years and then the discounts will return as it is really better for each company to participate in the interline programs.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 69, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10932 times:
Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 17): s the fuel for flying an extra 200 pounds significant?
Do dispatchers really look and say, "Oh, there's 147 instead of 146 passengers, better throw on more fuel"?
To me it seems that extra 200 pounds is insignificant and it costs the airline absolutely nothing.
But maybe they DO actually take that extra passenger into account when getting fuel costs, and if I'm dead wrong, correct me.
This is a slippery slope and discussed in detailed last year during high fuel cost often behind close doors. If the non-rev go the non-revs go, including employees and Frequent Flyer redemption!! Which was a huge strain on last years airline revenue. Not so much this year.
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1106 posts, RR: 19 Reply 70, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10877 times:
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 67): Why start a pissing contest? The priveleges are only suspended, not discontinued. Let the two companies fix it between themselves. SWA can't just let folks with a history of being disruptive keep being. IMO, SWA is just stopping the problem until it's fixed.
In turn FedEx should should suspend the shipping discount to mirror the policy of SWA. I am sure there have been more than one employee from SWA that have shipped a package on FedEx that wasn't technically "their" package, but for a friend. Probably outside of the bounds of the agreement. Maybe FedEx needs to assure compliance with the rules of shipping by the SWA employees. A stand down for SWA benefits is certainly in order in response to this decision by SWA to punish the entire FedEx workforce for the actions of one person.
This seems to be a continuing trend with SWA. They don't mind getting relief from the FAA for flying with illegal parts on their airplanes. Holding others to a standard they don't comply with themselves.
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1990 posts, RR: 10 Reply 71, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10263 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): In turn FedEx should should suspend the shipping discount to mirror the policy of SWA.
Why, if there have been no infractions by SWA privilege holders?
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): Maybe FedEx needs to assure compliance with the rules of shipping by the SWA employees.
I imagine they have a process for that. I'm sure, that if an SWA privelige holder stripped naked, then shipped themselves somewhere, FDX would take similar action.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): A stand down for SWA benefits is certainly in order in response to this decision by SWA to punish the entire FedEx workforce for the actions of one person.
SWA isn't punishing anyone. Southwest is protecting themselves from further disruption until FDX can reenforce the requirements and limitations addressing non-rev travel. The dumb asses that can't keep it in their pants are punishing their fellow FDX employees.
So, we can see you are no fan of SWA. How about that Nicolau Award?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 72, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10115 times:
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 62): Why should you be annoyed at anything agreed between two consenting companies that do not employ you, or in any other way, affect your daily life?
Seems to me like It's pretty obvious that I work for Southwest,.. So it does indeed affect me.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4436 posts, RR: 34 Reply 73, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9954 times:
I honestly had no idea that employees of FedEx got travel benefits. Even more shocking is that "some" of the FedEx employees abused the benefit. It is a complete shame. When I non-rev, whether it is the company I work for or another company, I make sure I am 110% respectful, and helpful in any way I can be. That is the way it is, and the way it should remain. Shame on anyone that abuses the benefit, and that is for anyone in any company that abuses it! More importantly, I am sorry for those that can't enjoy the benefit anymore.
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1106 posts, RR: 19 Reply 74, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9866 times:
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 71): SWA isn't punishing anyone. Southwest is protecting themselves from further disruption until FDX can reenforce the requirements and limitations addressing non-rev travel. The dumb asses that can't keep it in their pants are punishing their fellow FDX employees.
Really? Not punishing anyone with the decision to ban ALL FedEx non-revs as a result of the stupidity of ONE employee?
If that is the case then many of the hotels that SWA uses for overnights should ban ALL SWA employees from ever staying at their hotels due to some of the boneheaded things they have done on overnights.
I do hope FedEx stops the SWA shipping discount immediately. The shipping discount has been the benefit provided by FedEx to the airline employees since they don't offer seats for use. This would be the proper and correct action to reciprocate the suspension of the shipping discount if FedEx employees are not afforded a pass privilege.
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 71): So, we can see you are no fan of SWA. How about that Nicolau Award?
No, I am not a SWA fan. Probably never will be, and fortunately I don't have to be a US/HP pilot to be in that group. Not sure how you can compare the seniority integration at those carriers to a complete and total lack of maintenance oversight at SWA? Safety and Seniority should be separate issues.
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1990 posts, RR: 10 Reply 75, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9511 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 74): Not sure how you can compare the seniority integration at those carriers to a complete and total lack of maintenance oversight at SWA?
I wasn't. I asked an opinion.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2175 posts, RR: 15 Reply 76, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9489 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): This seems to be a continuing trend with SWA. They don't mind getting relief from the FAA for flying with illegal parts on their airplanes. Holding others to a standard they don't comply with themselves.
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 71):
I imagine they have a process for that. I'm sure, that if an SWA privelige holder stripped naked, then shipped themselves somewhere, FDX would take similar action.
I don't care what side of this your on that is some funny S*** right there!
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 74): If that is the case then many of the hotels that SWA uses for overnights should ban ALL SWA employees from ever staying at their hotels due to some of the boneheaded things they have done on overnights.
Flashes of ExpressJet, the Omaha Hilton, and naked pilots run through my mind when I read this!
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 77, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9385 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): This seems to be a continuing trend with SWA. They don't mind getting relief from the FAA for flying with illegal parts on their airplanes. Holding others to a standard they don't comply with themselves.
I've seen and heard of some stretches being made when making some "conclusions", but that one about takes the cake....
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5549 posts, RR: 57 Reply 78, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9331 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 74):
I do hope FedEx stops the SWA shipping discount immediately. The shipping discount has been the benefit provided by FedEx to the airline employees since they don't offer seats for use. This would be the proper and correct action to reciprocate the suspension of the shipping discount if FedEx employees are not afforded a pass privilege.
I think the issue is, when you travel on a non rev ticket, you represent your company.
Just like when our university has basketball games and such, you represent your university, if you tarnish it by drinking or whatever, it is the TEAM and the university who suffers because of one teammates actions.
Same goes for an airline employee, you represent your company.
Kind of like an apple thing, you take a bite and it had a bad taste, do you cut that piece out of the apple, or do you end up throwing the whole thing away? Odds are you probably throw the whole thing away.
As for demanding FX to strip WN's benefits away, sure. However so far, FX has not deemed this to be necessary yet. If FX wants to strip WN's benefits, then let them decide that. They know what they are doing.
I actually heard from inside at WN, FX actually requested and implemented the embargo and WN is doing so at FX's request. Allowing the time for FX to go over their non rev policies and such. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.
As for shipping for a friend, I guess that is possible, but for our benefit we as the employee have to physically go to a FX office, and show our badge to get the discount. Cannot be issued online or anything, so while possible, it does make it slightly a bit harder, especially if our friends do not live in the same city as we do.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1106 posts, RR: 19 Reply 79, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9279 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 77): I've seen and heard of some stretches being made when making some "conclusions", but that one about takes the cake.... Yeah sure
Hardly, SWA has placed themselves in the inconvenient position of being in VIOLATION of the FAR's. They should have had up to 80+ airplanes grounded, or perhaps the entire airline for questionable maintenance oversight. Instead they pleaded for and were granted a rather unusual waiver from the FAA.
In this case you had ONE FedEx employee does something illegal. As a result the company that has had to ask for leniency from the FAA now shuts down the travel benefits for an entire group.
This is another case of SWA and a double standard. Karma is a unwed mother. SWA kicked off the weekend with some classless commercials during the football weekend. Would love to see the other carriers retaliate with some direct revelations about SWA and its own practices, legal and illegal.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 80, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9225 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 78): I actually heard from inside at WN, FX actually requested and implemented the embargo and WN is doing so at FX's request. Allowing the time for FX to go over their non rev policies and such. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.
I've heard pretty much the same thing. Likewise, whether it's true or not, the overall issue is a matter between both the companies. While folks ouside (or even inside) SWA or FDX can have their own personal opinions of things, they're all kind of moot points---in the big scheme of things it's still at matter between the Execs of both outfits to work out. I'm confident they will eventually will do so and the suspension will end.
N702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 81, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9164 times:
First of all, it concerns me that someone who does not even work for Southwest Airlines posted an internal memo on a very public forum.
That makes me wonder if the OP has access to an employee's password and if the employee is aware that the OP is posting these types of items.
As OPNLguy said....I do not want all of us (WN employees) to be banned from participating in public forums because memos...EXACT memos, word for word, are being posted for the world to see.
Second of all, this is NOT the first time WN has imposed an embargo on FedEx employees. I specifically recall a period in the late 90s when I was an airport agent and a similar embargo was put into effect.
I will say, and this is with all due respect to the many, many fine people of Fedex...as an airport agent I recall having more "issues" with FedEx nonrevs than any other type of nonrev. I recall conversations taking place at the ticket counter with other agents expressing their frustrations caused by FedEx nonevs. I've had FedEx nonrevs yell at me, ask for compensation and demand a supervisor when they did not get on flights. I've had them express shock at the fact that they were not confirmed and not guaranteed a seat.
The problem, in my opinion, is that many FedEx employees have no idea what flying Non-Revenue Space Available means. And why would they? I mean I am not implying that the rules of NRSA travel are not included with the passes but who actually TELLS them how to use the passes, how to behave, what to expect or not expect?
As airline employees....we are surrounded by the concept of standby travel. Airport agents and reservations sales agents deal with standby listings and standby lists and priority lists.....Pilots and flight attendants use their benefits to commute....The rampers and headquarters people frequently use their flight benefits for pleasure travel..... My point is....if you are an airline employee and you have NEVER non-revved before, you can turn to anyone at work and ask: "How does this work? What happens if this happens? What if...."
When we give our buddy passes to people, most of us explain at length what the conditions and possibilities are to the person receiving them. By the time I have given someone of of my buddy passes they know EVERY possible scenerio...."You might not get on...don't cause a scene. Someone might be rude to you...just smile and say thank you. You might get stuck someplace overnight....its not the airline's fault and you'll be on your own. We might lose your luggage and you will never see it again....deal with it."
The majority of the FedEx nonrevs, however, are entering a world they know nothing about when they go to non-rev.
It would be like someone giving me a coupon for a free product that I was not familiar with....I go to the store to pick up my free product and I am told: "I am not sure if I am going to have one of those for you. You need to wait until the store closes. If I have one left, you can have it. However, it may not be the color you want OR the size you want. Oh, and if it damages any of your property, we aren't responsible. By, the way, at some point, I may need to track you down and take it back. Just be ready to give it back." I would be standing there with my coupon for a free thingy wondering...."What the hell kind of process is this??? No one told me in order to use this coupon I would have to endure so many conditions and waiting around....this is crazy!"
And to those people who say...."Its wrong to suspend the privilidges of an entire group based on the behavior of one person"..... This is one highly-publicized incident.... I am sure there have been other incidents at the ticket counters and gates that have been written-up by our front-line employees.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 82, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9135 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 78): I actually heard from inside at WN, FX actually requested and implemented the embargo and WN is doing so at FX's request. Allowing the time for FX to go over their non rev policies and such. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.
It is true the travel embargo was requested by FX and not imposed by SWA
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5549 posts, RR: 57 Reply 83, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9132 times:
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 84, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9113 times:
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 54): Maybe WN employees can't nonrev on FedEx flights, but there are other airline employees who can. IIRC Rebecca Shaw, the FO on Colgan 3407 commuted from her home in SEA to EWR on a FedEx flight (through MEM).
The only offline employees who can fly on FX are pilots and I am not sure about offline dispatchers but possibly them but no one else.
N702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 85, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8986 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 38): I'm not annoyed. The WN Pass Bureau must have thought it was a fair deal, and I like and use the discount.
I agree with you...I have also used the FedEx discount a few times. I don't use it often, but its nice to know its there when I need it.
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 39): Don't you think it's a little bit uneven? What do you save, a few bucks for shipping an envelope? And these guys are getting flights that cost hundreds of dollars for $25?
It bugs me, I can't help it..
Maybe we only get a few extra bucks off on shipping, but I have to wonder how much of a corporate discount the Company gets in exchange for this. I recall working in baggage service offices at the airport using FedEx on a weekly basis to ship and deliver lost bags to places we didn't fly to at the time. I am sure Southwest, as a whole, uses FedEx quite a bit. Maybe its all part of a bigger discount for the Company?
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 54): Maybe WN employees can't nonrev on FedEx flights, but there are other airline employees who can. IIRC Rebecca Shaw, the FO on Colgan 3407 commuted from her home in SEA to EWR on a FedEx flight (through MEM).
I am sure she jumpseated which, technically, is different than non-revving.
Quoting Silentbob (Reply 57): The problem there would be the US flight attendants.
The majority of US flight attendants I have had onboard between PIT and PHL usually mention that they have purchased their tickets. The price is worth the piece of mind that they are getting on the plane and there are usually many of them onboard.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 70): This seems to be a continuing trend with SWA. They don't mind getting relief from the FAA for flying with illegal parts on their airplanes. Holding others to a standard they don't comply with themselves.
I won't even respond to that comparison.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 74): If that is the case then many of the hotels that SWA uses for overnights should ban ALL SWA employees from ever staying at their hotels due to some of the boneheaded things they have done on overnights.
I have a feeling that the millions of dollars WN pays to these hotels a year is more valuable than the $25 or $35 the FedEx employees are paying is to WN.
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 71): I imagine they have a process for that. I'm sure, that if an SWA privelige holder stripped naked, then shipped themselves somewhere, FDX would take similar action.
THAT could be the funniest thing I have read on here in a long time! LOL!
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 88, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8882 times:
Quoting N702ML (Reply 81): The problem, in my opinion, is that many FedEx employees have no idea what flying Non-Revenue Space Available means. And why would they? I mean I am not implying that the rules of NRSA travel are not included with the passes but who actually TELLS them how to use the passes, how to behave, what to expect or not expect?
You hit the nail on the head...Quite a few of the people that work here have never worked for a passenger airline before and have no idea how to non-rev. I think you are right they need to explain in better detail what this benefit is and the consequences for not following the rules. Of course most pilots and dispatchers as well as a lot of aircraft mechanics have worked for other airlines before coming here and have had more exposure to the non-rev experience.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 17843 posts, RR: 59 Reply 89, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8875 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 3): Why continue the nonrev thing anyway in this economic climate? Shouldn't we save fuel and not fly for free? The least we can do is buy a paid ticket on our own airline right?
Airline employees are already helping their airlines out in the form of taking pay cuts, reduced or eliminated pensions, changing their hours, etc. All of those help out much more than not non-reving would. To expect them to refrain from non-revving in addition to that is asking a bit much.
To put it another way: if my airline is going to cut my salary, take away my pension, up my number of scheduled hours, and force me to change bases, all in the name of saving money, the least they could do for me is to continue to let me grab an empty seat (something that is increasingly becoming a rare commodity these days) when I need to travel (such as getting to that new base that I was assigned without having much choice in the matter).
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 92, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8672 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 91): We should not have negative discussions about SWA?
How did it become a negative discussion about Southwest? And if it did, perhaps it should be locked because then this topic has strayed off topic..
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4040 posts, RR: 31 Reply 94, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8573 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 87): Haven't anything officially posted. Only some internet chatter. Produce the memo then I will become a believer.
If you read above, official memos are not to be distributed publically so you won't find your official memo...at least you shouldn't. If you want, you can take the word from someone who has access to that information. If not, then there is really nothing left to be said.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 95, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8421 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 87): Haven't anything officially posted. Only some internet chatter. Produce the memo then I will become a believer.
Take my word for it..I work at FX we have all received an e mail from upper management explaining the suspension and FX imposing the suspension and the companies desire to not jepardize the interline relationship with SWA. They have taken action against said employees who violated the rules but does not give a timetable on when the travel would be restored.
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8113 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22): It's part of the employees' compensation. Nonrev benefits already allow the industry to pay substandard wages (combined with the value of travel benefits it should be more equal), so a cut to those benefits is a cut in compensation.
Funny how I hear that even airline caterers do not get flight benefits, but they pay very well and everyone gets free food anyway.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 97, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8029 times:
Quoting Malaysia (Reply 96): Funny how I hear that even airline caterers do not get flight benefits, but they pay very well and everyone gets free food anyway.
Not every airline's flight benefits package is the same. What you're referring to sounds like one specific airline's policy. You also have to remember that not everyone outside working is an employee of the airline. Some of those guys work for 3rd party contract companies. Catering companies are often times contracted, and they would receive no company flight benefits. Some airlines have their OWN internal catering department and they WOULD have flight benefits. There's great variations with the way all airlines operate. For the most part, in the USA, airlines offer ALL employees non revenue flight benefits on their own airline. Some charge for small taxes and whatnot, and some are totally free and without any limitation. As like any company, every company has it's own policies.
Pay varies as well. Some contract companies start off at a better hourly wage than an airline employed equivalent, but then you sacrifice on the flight benefits and medical coverage. And, some airlines offer better pay and benefits altogether. I've bounced around the airline biz for my entire working adult life so I know the ins and outs. You've got the unionized places, the non unionized places and the resulting policy differences. You've got the subcontracted regional carriers operating the little planes under the mainline brand, and the policy differences between those employees and the mainline employees. There's a lot of variables involved.
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5549 posts, RR: 57 Reply 98, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7982 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 87):
Haven't anything officially posted. Only some internet chatter. Produce the memo then I will become a believer.
Everyone has responded for me, but since you are directing the quote to me, we cannot post internal memo anyway.
Your profile says you are an airline pilot so I am sure whomever the airline you fly for, has the same policy, not to post internal memo's or emails sent to your company's site.
Stratosphere has mentioned on behalf of FX and I have mentioned along with OPNLguy, Silver1swa and others on behalf of WN that FX implemented the embargo on themselves and that WN is simply following FX's request until it gets all sorted out.
You can take our word for it or choose to ignore it, and if thats the case then so be it.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 99, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7829 times:
Quoting N702ML (Reply 81): I will say, and this is with all due respect to the many, many fine people of Fedex...as an airport agent I recall having more "issues" with FedEx nonrevs than any other type of nonrev. I recall conversations taking place at the ticket counter with other agents expressing their frustrations caused by FedEx nonevs. I've had FedEx nonrevs yell at me, ask for compensation and demand a supervisor when they did not get on flights. I've had them express shock at the fact that they were not confirmed and not guaranteed a seat.
The problem, in my opinion, is that many FedEx employees have no idea what flying Non-Revenue Space Available means. And why would they? I mean I am not implying that the rules of NRSA travel are not included with the passes but who actually TELLS them how to use the passes, how to behave, what to expect or not expect?
Wouldn't FX's pass bureau explain their employees the basics of non revving, and knowing they won't get on a flight since their priority is low? I know it has to be very low on the food chain since they are not employees of the airline. (I'm not talking about flightdeck staff like pilots, mechanics, or dispatchers)
I've a question? Do FedEx employees have non rev benefits on every airline?
What is their priority, and is it below a "Other Airline" employee (and their family & pass riders) when they fly on another airline besides WN?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
Fxra From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 660 posts, RR: 3 Reply 100, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7667 times:
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 99): Wouldn't FX's pass bureau explain their employees the basics of non revving, and knowing they won't get on a flight since their priority is low? I know it has to be very low on the food chain since they are not employees of the airline. (I'm not talking about flightdeck staff like pilots, mechanics, or dispatchers)
From what i recall, the non-rev (or discount travel) policies were spelled out in the email bulletins boards. As an employee you were repsonsable for reading the directions and abiding by them. You filled out a form, and sent it to corporate travel to ask for a price quote for the airline and route you were flying. They returned the quote, you printed it, sent it COMAT with a check, and a pass was issued. I personally used the corporate option once in 8 years at Fedex, as cost the time the rate was more than buying a restricted fare 3 weeks out (I lived in a non SWA city at the the time). You could get good deals on int'l though.
However, a person can skip the rules and regulations email easily and just send the request off thinking they were buying a ticket. And for the "non-airline" types, they have no idea what stand-by or NRSA means. I grew up pass riding and knew that never was a seats guaranteed. I used to see the same attitudes when personal jumpseaters were bumped from FDX flights (when all employees could ride). They seemed to have no idea about the jumpseat requirements and often I sent employees to shave beards or change clothes, and you were required to take a test every 6 months to maintain jumpseat eligibility.
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 99): I've a question? Do FedEx employees have non rev benefits on every airline?
What is their priority, and is it below a "Other Airline" employee (and their family & pass riders) when they fly on another airline besides WN?
There was a list of both domestic and international carriers we at fedex were eligible of discount fares on, usually ID75 or ID90 fares. Domestically, it was almost always cheaper to buy a confirmed ticjet a few weeks out than to use the discount. Int'l there were some good deals to be had (BA Speedbird fares and Delta Global fares to Europe come to mind). Priority was, I think, the same as any other OAL pass rider, which is to say somewhere slightly below flying sandbags around.
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2896 posts, RR: 4 Reply 101, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7393 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 35): As I understand it, all direct employees of FedEx (airport ops, delivery, corporate, etc...) have non-rev benefits with most airlines. In return, employees of the other carriers get interline rates on FedEx shipping. This is not talking about dead-heading crew members, this is about standby travel privileges. It is similar to a ZED agreement.
As a side note, I asked a FedEx Kinko's employee about her benefits. She said she does not get to non-rev on OA, but her husband, a FedEx driver, does because he works for the FedEx corporation and not a subsidiary (like Kinko's). I'm sure someone else on here will be able to verify this.
To expand on this - FX works on a franchise model unlike UPS(where everyone is a corporate employee). "Home delivery" and "ground" are run by franchisees and not the company proper itself. "Home delivery" drivers are actually independent contractors and aren't even employees of the franchise - they have to purchase their own trucks and their routes. FedEx Express delivery, the guys in the delivery trucks with the orange and purple lettering, are corporate employees. As you said, Kinko's is a separate subisidiary and as such are not privy to same privileges that corporate employees are.
BillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0 Reply 102, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7359 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 19): Because nonrev travel, for the most part, is what makes working for an airline attractive. If they took that away, they'd better start paying us much better
What about pay so we can eat and have a roof?
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
BillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0 Reply 103, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7343 times:
Quoting Swa4life (Reply 36): I'm annoyed that FedEx ground workers were ever getting flight benefits on Southwest to begin with. Nothing personal against those particular individuals, but I was always under the impression that pass agreements were sort of a reciprocal thing. I don't think getting a discount for shipping a box is an adequate trade off for a free flight. All I know about FedEx is from the movie "Castaway", when Tom Hank's character was able to fly on FedEx flights. Is that really how it works? Can FedEx employees fly around on those flights? If that's the case, let us fly on the FedEx flights, then I don't have a problem with letting FedEx people fly on us.
Read your interline non-rev rules. Before 9/11 it was very possible. Not sure now. You ay be able to nrsa on FedEx, but the flights are at night. In fact it was a great way to go international while avoiding alot of the pax flight competitions to get on.
Not that its FedEx, but when I worked for evergreen I had the opportunity to sit beside a very nice WN flight attendant trying to get home on one of our cargo birds.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1990 posts, RR: 10 Reply 104, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7246 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 87): Haven't anything officially posted. Only some internet chatter. Produce the memo then I will become a believer.
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 91): We should not have negative discussions about SWA?
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 98): Everyone has responded for me, but since you are directing the quote to me, we cannot post internal memo anyway.
Your profile says you are an airline pilot so I am sure whomever the airline you fly for, has the same policy, not to post internal memo's or emails sent to your company's site.
Stratosphere has mentioned on behalf of FX and I have mentioned along with OPNLguy, Silver1swa and others on behalf of WN that FX implemented the embargo on themselves and that WN is simply following FX's request until it gets all sorted out.
You can take our word for it or choose to ignore it, and if thats the case then so be it.
Alex
Alex, IF he is a pilot, his attitude that of one who missed the cut at SWA ,so he hates SWA.
Or, his carrier hasn't been properly managed since 1978 and is in the crapper, so he hates SWA.
Or, his career expectations haven't been met because of furloughs, scope, merger, or Chap. 11, so he hates SWA.
Maybe his ex works for SWA. The list could go on.
I certify that I do not now, nor I have ever been, an employee of SWA. I do not have SWA stock. But, I am rather enjoying this thread.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
SWABrian From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 294 posts, RR: 2 Reply 105, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7229 times:
Quoting Mcdu (Reply 87): Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 83):
Well mcdu, there is your answer. This is why FX has not "banned" WN because FX implemented the embargo on themselves.
Haven't anything officially posted. Only some internet chatter. Produce the memo then I will become a believer.
mcdu,
It's official, but it doesn't include the the cockpit agreement for pilots. There is no memo.
Brian Lusk
Southwest Airlines
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 7518 posts, RR: 10 Reply 106, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7172 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 60): ZERO times. I am not in Inflight, and never was and never will. My point was that there absolutely was a service charge BEFORE 9/11 occurred.
On your airline, maybe......never on DL.
Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 59): My benefits allow me to fly in first class as an SA1 at most of the carriers in the US but there have been many times I was put behind SA2/3 employees from their own airline incorrectly and I just have to shut my mouth and take it. That is what you do when you are flying OAL.
This is odd. I've never heard of an airline employee, traveling on another airline, boarding before employees of that airline.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Skyway1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 107, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7140 times:
Quoting PITops (Reply 31): Yes. I don't think FedEx Ground employees could use those benefits. It was just for ground workers at FedEx locations at airports.
I'd imagine the ground side receives no flight travel benefits. All Express side employees, DGO and AGFS, can non rev.
Having worked in the industry for year I don't even bother with it, just purchase tickets whenever I travel. I've had co-workers use it and fly to some lovely places.
Sad that a few rotten apples spoil it for the rest of us. When I was at C8 we had a wife of an ATA pilot that was just a bear when she non revved.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5672 posts, RR: 9 Reply 108, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7122 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 106): Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 59):
My benefits allow me to fly in first class as an SA1 at most of the carriers in the US but there have been many times I was put behind SA2/3 employees from their own airline incorrectly and I just have to shut my mouth and take it. That is what you do when you are flying OAL.
This is odd. I've never heard of an airline employee, traveling on another airline, boarding before employees of that airline.
Don't know about all airlines but you never got those boarding privalages on AA,DL or NW and I kind of doubt on any other carrier.
JetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 385 posts, RR: 6 Reply 109, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7070 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 56): When something goes out to many 1000's of employees at a company, there is bound to be some leaks. In this case, this disclosure does not release any particular security information, but a very broad statement as to the embargo, probably written by the public relations department and lawyers. The leak may be an 'allowable' one, to get the message out those that use or have access to non-rev privileges
Exactly, and how many people posted on here that they saw the same memo or got a simliar email from FX. Someone was gonna post something saying "I heard a rumor bla bla bla" and eventually someone was going to quote the memo/email/sign/note they saw and read.
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 77): I've seen and heard of some stretches being made when making some "conclusions", but that one about takes the cake
Totally agree. Talk about going off an a whole new topic. Go spread crazy conspiracy theorys somewhere else. We are all stocked up here.
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 104): Alex, IF he is a pilot, his attitude that of one who missed the cut at SWA ,so he hates SWA.
Or, his carrier hasn't been properly managed since 1978 and is in the crapper, so he hates SWA.
Or, his career expectations haven't been met because of furloughs, scope, merger, or Chap. 11, so he hates SWA.
Maybe his ex works for SWA. The list could go on.
Amen...hello bitter...party of 1...your table is ready. And I'm with the Swa4life and N702ML, I think we're beating a dead horse here and its time to wrap this up.
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 4 Reply 110, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6885 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 106): This is odd. I've never heard of an airline employee, traveling on another airline, boarding before employees of that airline.
I am not sure what SA1 is because I believe that is a DL baording code..But at NW anything with a 1 was positive space non-revenue usually only people in training or executives of the airline flew on that code. Now management from other ailines do fly ahead of you if they are on company business.
Swa4life From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 111, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6873 times:
Quoting Skyway1 (Reply 107): Sad that a few rotten apples spoil it for the rest of us. When I was at C8 we had a wife of an ATA pilot that was just a bear when she non revved.
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 112, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6730 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 106): Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 59):
My benefits allow me to fly in first class as an SA1 at most of the carriers in the US but there have been many times I was put behind SA2/3 employees from their own airline incorrectly and I just have to shut my mouth and take it. That is what you do when you are flying OAL.
This is odd. I've never heard of an airline employee, traveling on another airline, boarding before employees of that airline.
Are you an airline executive or in high management?
I've always thought that SA1 (or the equivalent) was for positive space non-rev too. (The Holy Grail of non-revving, since most employees who are not flight crew members or mechanics rarely ever sees a SA1) I've always knew that whenever I'm have to interline on another airline, I'm usually an SA 5 or 6 (or the lower equivalent) or the very bottom of the list, when all of that particular airline's employees and pass riders were accommodated.
I usually get on that particular flight after patiently waiting (and not pestering the gate agent...)
IIRC: If you were trying to get on a NW flight and you worked for CO, you had a higher boarding priority than a AA or UA employee. And if you were trying to get on a DL flight, all Skyteam members have a higher OA boarding priority than a non Skyteam carrier. Is this the case due to the fact that I had no problems ever getting on a DL flight?
So getting back to my original question.....FX employees must be on the very bottom of any airline's priority list, huh?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
Canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 113, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6709 times:
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 112): FX employees must be on the very bottom of any airline's priority list, huh?
They were treated as any other airline employee at the carrier I used to work for (not QX) . Basically, if a non-rev from QX checked in 2 min later than a FX employee, the FX employee would fly before the QX non-rev. Baring jumpseat availability/qualification for the QX employee. We had similar agreements with travel agents who also flew at the same standby priority as FX employees. Although seen less frequently, they probably understood the space available system about equally as well as FX employees...i.e., not very well.
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 64): At what airline or airlines do pilots and FA's have more travel options than CSA's? None that I know of if you exclude the jump seat.
I wasn't excluding the jumpseat. And, although we technically are calling it jumpseating, most airlines will give you a seat in the back if it's available to keep you off the jump. If you include the jumpseat, pilots have many, many more travel options than CSAs many of them free.
I saw a printout once of AS's standby priority list, it's been a while so don't flame me on being a little wrong, but it seemed like there were dozens of different standby priorities.
I guess some of us are "half full" optimists and others are "half empty" pessimists.
The optimists amongst us will look at any opportunity our employer takes that might save us a few bucks as being positive and a welcome contribution to our remuneration package with one proviso. And that proviso should be that we do not have to pay in any other way whether or not we take advantage of the opportuity.
The pessimists amongst us will include FedEx employees who would always reject the opportunity to fly in favour of using ground transportation who get bugged by the steady stream of other airline employees who take advantage of the discount offered to non-FedEx airline employees for the express delivery of letters and parcels,.
Yes. Of course. FedEx is as much a commercial airline as any other operator. It has one of the largest fleets of commercial aircraft in the world. And a couple of years back and perhaps since was rated number one in a list of the world's most profitable airlines. So if ground staff of passenger airlines can non-rev with other airlines why should the ground-staff with FedEx be prevented fropm doing the same?
And afterall you can non-rev with WN or a whole host of other airlines. But you cannot send low cost express letters or parcels with them.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 15604 posts, RR: 90 Reply 115, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6628 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37): Delivery (door to door) folks are not airport workers so why should they get them?
I am pretty sure non-airport personnel at airlines get to interline as well.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 101): "Home delivery" and "ground" are run by franchisees and not the company proper itself.
Well, Ground is a wholly owned subsidiary, I believe it used to be RDS.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16217 posts, RR: 57 Reply 116, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6609 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
At this point, the thread has run its' course and the discussion has veered away from the topic. This thread is now locked.
Any posts that appear after this post will be deleted for housekeeping reasons.
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