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Venezuela Starts Suspending Colombian Flights  
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6974 times:

INAC, Venezuela's aviation authority, has started suspending the frequencies allocated to colombian airlines on a unilateral move. It is argued that it's because the extra freqs. had been granted through special permssions (a case similar to Copa's) even though the countries have an open-skies agreement. Also, Avianca has been denied the use of their new A32S fleet on Venezuelan territory.

Aerocivil, Colombia's CAA, has been trying to make contact with the Venezuelan authority with no response whatsoever:

http://www.portafolio.com.co/economi...B-NOTA_INTERIOR_PORTA-6068407.html
http://eleconomista.com.mx/notas-imp...-chavez-entrada-vuelos-colombianos

In spanish only, I will try to get an english article as soon as it's out

These are the weekly frequencies being suspended:

Pax:

Avianca 3 frequencies on BOG-CCS and 2 frequencies on BOG-VLN
Aerorepública BOG route suspended entirely, 3 frequencies on MDE-CCS and 3 on CTG-CCS
Aires risks the suspesion of all 9 frequencies used on BOG-MAR and BAQ-MAR.

Cargo:

Aerosucre all frequencies suspended (about 4 weekly flights)
LAS all frequencies suspended (about 5 weekly flights)

Note: Cargo flights are only being flown by Venescar right now (a venezuelan carrier).

All of this BS is coming from Chavez' new policy of blocking trade with Colombia due to the usage agreement on colombian bases with the US Army and Navy. Since Colombia and Peru are the only countries with right-wing governments in the hemisphere Chavez has decided to play bully.

The airlines shouldn't suffer from this, especially because of the undercapacity there is in this particular air market due to the venezuelan carriers not being able to offer constant service to neighboring Colombia mainly due to financial constraints and bad management.


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

Correction:

Avianca 7 frequencies 5 on BOG-CCS and 2 on BOG-VLN



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6936 times:

What can we expect now? Would AV start BOG-MAO and make O6 start MAO-CCS? Or even BVB?

[Edited 2009-09-10 16:48:51]

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6914 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
Would AV start BOG-MAO and make O6 start MAO-CCS? Or even BVB?

That is some extreme routing. I guess, if all frequencies are finally blocked, that people would be swarming through PTY and AUA/CUR.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6902 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 3):
That is some extreme routing.

I'm sure it is, but it would also keep passengers flying AV at least.

[Edited 2009-09-10 17:04:44]

User currently offlineNetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6566 times:



Quoting RCS763AV (Thread starter):
All of this BS is coming from Chavez' new policy of blocking trade with Colombia due to the usage agreement on colombian
bases with the US Army and Navy. Since Colombia and Peru are the only countries with right-wing governments in the hemisphere Chavez has decided to play bully.

The airlines shouldn't suffer from this, especially because of the undercapacity there is in this particular air market due to the venezuelan carriers not being able to offer constant service to neighboring Colombia mainly due to financial constraints and bad management.

I agree with you. Its hard to participate in this thread, and not sound political.....I guess the other airlines in the region could jump in and benefit, maybe LAN and the Brazilian airlines.

Sucks for Avianca tough...... Chavez definetly has it in for Colombia


User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 499 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Also Aires has been suspended in the MAR - BOG route since february.

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6249 times:



Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 5):
I agree with you. Its hard to participate in this thread, and not sound political.....I guess the other airlines in the region could jump in and benefit, maybe LAN and the Brazilian airlines.

Sucks for Avianca tough...... Chavez definetly has it in for Colombia

It is indeed impossible to talk about it in a non-political manner, after all, it is a political decision.

On the other hand, LAN might want to jump into the market again, and this could be benefitial, at least to relieve some capacity.

Avianca has been left with only 3 daily flights on BOG-CCS (they had 6 dailies at it's peak), and the market is way larger than that.

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 6):
Also Aires has been suspended in the MAR - BOG route since february.

What do you mean? Aires is currently operating the route. Is it that from February 2010 they won't be allowed to operate?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineTarheelwings From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6219 times:



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 7):
On the other hand, LAN might want to jump into the market again, and this could be benefitial, at least to relieve some capacity.

Does LAN really want to do that? The Venezuelan business climate is not the most "stable" as far as giving assurances to companies such as LAN that things won't change based on a whim from our friend Chavez. On top of that, there is a really good possiblity that the next president of Chile (which is where LAN is based out of) will be Sebastian Pinera who is the right of center candidate from the Alianza para Chile coalition. As mentioned above, Chavez is not necessarily "friendly" with the 2 South American countries that have right wing presidents: Peru and Colombia.


User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6189 times:

I guess Mr. Chavez is following same guideline that Cuba followed in the sixties , trying of isolate the country from "the evil neighbors" It is really a shame!!

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6126 times:



Quoting Tarheelwings (Reply 8):
Does LAN really want to do that?

You have a point there but, it is one of the top intra-south america markets we are talking about here. LAN could use their Ecuador subsidiary and start several daily Ecuador-BOG-CCS flights...just a thought. Though I would tend to think the colombian government would jum in and protect Avianca from Venezuela's policies...(the situation has its merts to do so).

BTW, found the english article, from the Herald Tribune- Latin America:

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=343551&CategoryId=10717

If offers a broader explanation of the political situation and the consecuences that Chavez' policy could bring to the venezuelan economy.

As side news, it is being reported on colombian forums that the usage of A32S has been completely banned, not only restricted. I wonder what AV is going to do since the last MD-83 is scheduled to leave in January.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6047 times:



Quoting Tarheelwings (Reply 8):
Does LAN really want to do that? The Venezuelan business climate is not the most "stable" as far as giving assurances to companies such as LAN that things won't change based on a whim from our friend Chavez. On top of that, there is a really good possiblity that the next president of Chile (which is where LAN is based out of) will be Sebastian Pinera who is the right of center candidate from the Alianza para Chile coalition. As mentioned above, Chavez is not necessarily "friendly" with the 2 South American countries that have right wing presidents: Peru and Colombia.

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. A serious and successful company like LAN will think twice before jump into a market where you must play under the rules of a monkey with a knife ( or a Chavez with oil, basically the same )....with all due respect to the monkeys  Big grin

I don't see LAN risking that move in the near future.

Saludos.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5964 times:



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
As side news, it is being reported on colombian forums that the usage of A32S has been completely banned, not only restricted. I wonder what AV is going to do since the last MD-83 is scheduled to leave in January.

It seems that Avianca is running three daily 757s on the CCS-BOG run. On certain days, the last flight of day is flown by a 767. On Monday's the flight is only flown twice.

Cargo must also be light.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5725 times:



Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12):
It seems that Avianca is running three daily 757s on the CCS-BOG run. On certain days, the last flight of day is flown by a 767. On Monday's the flight is only flown twice.

I have just seen it in avianca.com, but there's gonna be a point in which those aircraft will also be retired. The move is simple: they don't want Avianca's new entertainment system to compete with the crap fleets of venezuelan carriers (with all due respect).

Not long ago, there was 1x daily 767-300, 1x daily 757, 3x daily MD-83 and 1x daily F100 on the route, what a shame.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

Another insane reaction by our beloved president. I was expecting this move since the very first difference these two presidents had. And the worst part is that the only one who's being harmed is 1) The Passengers, and 2) Avianca.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 13):
I have just seen it in avianca.com, but there's gonna be a point in which those aircraft will also be retired. The move is simple: they don't want Avianca's new entertainment system to compete with the crap fleets of venezuelan carriers (with all due respect).

Not really. Please remember there are no Venezuelan carriers flying into Colombia. Moreover, there are no Venezuelan carriers equipped to offer any entertainment system whatsoever. SBA Airlines has TVs in some of their 757s and they're not being used for unknown reasons. Seems like they want to offer a standard service in all their flights... and since some of their planes have no IFE, they simply don't use them at all.

With regards to possible options, maybe routing flights through AUA and CUR could work? I wonder if Chavez is banning the flights Country to Country, or simply banning Avianca?

Cheers



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

[quote=797,reply=14]simply banning Avianca?

Enrique,

The instructions are clear from someone who regards his country as his personal domain and its citizens subject to his every whim: NO Colombian product on Venezuelan soil; that includes, of course, airlines.

Greetings from Cancun


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5567 times:



Quoting Civilav (Reply 15):
The instructions are clear from someone who regards his country as his personal domain and its citizens subject to his every whim: NO Colombian product on Venezuelan soil; that includes, of course, airlines.

Would the Venezuelan government go as far as completely banning flights between CCS and BOG?

Avianca can respond to the reduction of flights by making CCS a 3x daily 763 operation since the 763s are already allowed to land in CCS. It's quite absurd, the whole thing, but that's what makes politics so interesting!


I leave you with a video of CCS from 1981. The Venezuela of 1981 is much different than the Venezuela of today of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWbU-FYP6ZY

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineNetjetsINTL From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5549 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 14):
Another insane reaction by our beloved president. I was expecting this move since the very first difference these two presidents had. And the worst part is that the only one who's being harmed is 1) The Passengers, and 2) Avianca

If Uribe makes him mad one more time, that's it-- Avianca is out of Venezuela completely...

It seems to me Colombia is replacing the U.S as the target of his weekly bashing


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5470 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 14):
2) Avianca.

And Aerorepública, Ares, LAS and Aerosucre.

Quoting 797 (Reply 14):
Not really. Please remember there are no Venezuelan carriers flying into Colombia. Moreover, there are no Venezuelan carriers equipped to offer any entertainment system whatsoever. SBA Airlines has TVs in some of their 757s and they're not being used for unknown reasons. Seems like they want to offer a standard service in all their flights... and since some of their planes have no IFE, they simply don't use them at all.

SBA Airlines has been constantly repeating that they will be starting service to BOG soon. Of course, a 30-year old DC-9 will be no match for AV's brand new A32S and P5's E190s. I guess it comes as an addition to the original move; making AV offer a product thats down-to-par with venezuelan carriers.

It's not the fault of these airlines, as the taxes for acquiring new aircraft in Venezuela are absurdly big and the process of certification is ridiculous. But one would think a serious government would lower these taxes and expedite procedures instead of blocking foreign competition.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 16):
3x daily 763 operation

I guess that's whats going to happen. Its still no match to what was being offered before (some 830 daily seats against 640 daily seats). Traffic has been very affected by othe rmoves that have been taken by the venezuelan government lately, too
.

Quoting NetjetsINTL (Reply 17):
If Uribe makes him mad one more time, that's it-- Avianca is out of Venezuela completely...

It's a valid, soveregin decision that's not meant to affect anyone outside of Colombia's borders.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineVZLA787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

I can only say, what a moronic way to run a country and not help the airline industry.

This is one of the reasons I left Venezuela a few years back, it is completely insane, no set rules for businesses, only what THE MONKEY WANTS.
What a shame..........


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5330 times:



Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 16):
I leave you with a video of CCS from 1981. The Venezuela of 1981 is much different than the Venezuela of today of course.

I can't thank you enough for such an amazing video! It gave me goose bumps. Thanks!!!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 18):

SBA Airlines has been constantly repeating that they will be starting service to BOG soon. Of course, a 30-year old DC-9 will be no match for AV's brand new A32S and P5's E190s. I guess it comes as an addition to the original move; making AV offer a product thats down-to-par with venezuelan carriers.

Their intentions to "begin" BOG is with a daily 757 flight, not DC-9s. Now, I am positive this will NEVER happen for the aforementioned reasons.

This is only the beginning of a tough ride for most of us. Chavez has no clue of what he's doing, and while Uribe will keep heading in the correct direction, Chavez will continue moving backward toward the miserable and disgraceful path for our country.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5186 times:

The inevitable march of CCS to an obscure reguional airport rather than a viable s American point of entry, mini-hub continues.

Wait until new US visa restrictions on vzlans start filtering down system and the (as yet) big US-Vzla volumes, especially MIA-CCS-MIA will really start to take a hit.

Oh well, CCS will be a minor regional airport that happns to have lots of frequency to Havana, Tehran, and Syria. if either venezuela or North Korea had anythig even better than '4th world" calibre aviation industry maybe you could ad Pyongyang to the list, except neither country could likely manage that routing with 4 stops and 4 dedicated aircraft. Be fun to see though, maybe Chavez could assign a Conviasa A342 to n Korea, it's cycle would take a wek and it might carry a dozen pax return, 3 or 4 tech stops and probable weejkly groundings in N Korea when they can't service the a/c wheh it goes mencanical, but it'd be fun to wqacth from sidelines.

Also back on Colombia issue, with vzlan govt is severe financuial distress it suits their purpose to make it that much harder again for Vzlans to travel abroad to utilize their CADIVI cupo/ dollars so making Coombia either that much more hard tio get space or expensive suits the communist agenda, gotta give them credit for an aviation policy which serves a political plan.


Great busines models!


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5150 times:



Quoting CayMan (Reply 21):
The inevitable march of CCS to an obscure reguional airport rather than a viable s American point of entry, mini-hub continues.

I cannot agree more with this. I am regularly flying UIO-CCS-FRA on S3 or AV and LH every time we have a 2-3 hour delay in CCS because of incapable ground handling and baggage checking in CCS implemented by the Chavez government. The same delays occur to AF, AZ, TP, IB...they are lined up an waiting. It is just a matter of time until airlines will re-think CCS. All the additional costs for crew overtime, re-booking of connections etc. A couple of months ago somebody started a thread where he was stating that LH is rethinking CCS and instead use BOG as point of entry for the Andean Region. Maybe there was some truth about it.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

[CM/P5 Colombia-PTY and then CM PTY-Venezuela] may benefit themselves in this regard, taking into account that CM PTY-CCS 3x daily is likely the best route in terms of the yields for the Panamanian airline.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4986 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
[CM/P5 Colombia-PTY and then CM PTY-Venezuela] may benefit themselves in this regard, taking into account that CM PTY-CCS 3x daily is likely the best route in terms of the yields for the Panamanian airline.

It's too much volume were are talking about here. CM should launch a 4th daily flight, but good luck with that and INAC.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
25 MasseyBrown : I wonder if CM, as owner of Aerorepublica, will also be the object of Venezuelan displeasure. Looking at Chavez's military budget for tanks and short
26 2travel2know : If CM is heading towards Star Alliance, chances are LH may consider PTY as the point of entry for the Andean region. P5 has been affected by INAC's r
27 RCS763AV : You seem to ignore that Panamá is definately overserved in terms of Europe flights right now. CCS and BOG provide at least 4 times the O/D that the
28 Post contains images Tavong : Yes i know, but i really can´t take this thing lightly so i really felt that is better to stay aside. I don´t know if this is the feeling of all th
29 2travel2know : Does LH wants a daily A340-600 from FRA to one hub in (or near) the Andean region? Usually an airline would start a route with a smaller plane and th
30 Planeguy : I agree! This is something I can't figure out. Why do carriers like LH, TP, AZ and AF even bother with CCS? First of all, this airport doesn't even h
31 Varig md-11 : For LH and AF I guess there's a lot of business pax wanting to stop at CCS, and not interested in connections beyond; because of his primary anti-US
32 757MDE : The government said they would start looking to alternative markets some time ago, maybe the Airlines should also try to get in that train so to say f
33 IAD380 : An important question is how stringent foreign currency controls imposed by the Venezuelan government and the vastly overvalued bolivar affect the pr
34 RCS763AV : They did fly the A346 daily to CCS in the past and now they are flying a daily A343, the would be the least they would want if they would change airp
35 LH506 : Actually on the booking confirmations for my next flight between October and December it still says 346.
36 Summa767 : Today AV has one of its flights to CCS (AV68) programmed to operate with an A320, so maybe this is a positive sign that this aircraft type will be all
37 SJOtoLIR : I would second that point. Even CM PTY-MAR 1x daily and CM PTY-VLN 1x daily are utilizing the 738 and 73G respectively for the time being. These rout
38 797 : This ended up being a very interesting discussion despite the fact that the topic is yet another political fiasco... CCS is a gold mine for many inter
39 RCS763AV : That is statment is not entirely true. CCS might have more traffic to Europe (lots of VFR, ethnical ties) and the US (business/emigrants) than BOG, b
40 Post contains links 797 : Hola Roberto! What I meant is that CCS has always been bigger than BOG in terms of transatlantic services. I apologize for not making that clear. Ven
41 Tavong : Thanks for the comments (really it´s hard to find some good commentary about Colombians in the forums). Maybe Colombia has learned the hard way, unf
42 RCS763AV : It has been reported that an A320 flew yesterday to CCS in order to be inspected by INAC officials to see if the type will be allowed to be operated i
43 777jaah : I wonder what kind of inspection can be done. Anyone knows how these procedeures are done?? It's hard not to get political in this issue.... You will
44 Summa767 : All is relative, and even more so when Chavez is involved. There is no doubt that Uribe has been to the guerrillas like chemotherapy to cancer: Neces
45 777jaah : I want to keep my personal political feelings outside this forum. I quote myself, because I think is clear that was their feelings what i wanted to e
46 757MDE : BOG looks like the very best concession ever made compared to MDE... Airplan sucks with passion. For the rest, I can only agree with you.
47 Summa767 : I am not critisising the bidder chosen to carry out the airport expansion plan, as I trust that Opain will deliver a good finished product. But rathe
48 Mexicana757 : Why does INAC have to inspect AV A320??? I mean the aircraft type already flies into Venezuela with different airlines. Or are they going to start doi
49 757MDE : Again I agree with what you say about the BOG process. Not only is it a mess (some mess is absolutely expected, but not that much) but they want to ni
50 Summa767 : Oh oh, thanks for the report. Perhaps the interventoria should have a look at what Airplan are doing. I can understand that they want to enforce park
51 RCS763AV : Guys, i'm sorry to say this but even though the discussion is getting very informative, let's stick to the subjets. We should start a Colombia thread
52 Avianca : sorry not correct, for TAMPA Venezuela is/was a very important market - as they had daily often double daily flights fom MIA to CCS and VLN - and alw
53 757MDE : Maybe I should rephrase. Not of little importance for Tampa per se, but comparing whole operations it's my understanding that LAS Cargo and Aerosucre
54 LatinPlane : I know - the concord at Caracas! There must have been a lot of business travelers flying into CCS! When I see old TV recordings of Venezuela from the
55 777jaah : I just flew to MDE from BOG and this move is really stupid. Had to walk to the parking lot meet my company driver. Ridicoulous. Plane that brought me
56 797 : It surely is like this how it will remain... I believe the INAC has not given any rational explanation as to why they'd be banning the entry of AV wi
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