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Any Chance Of Qantas/Air NZ To Scandinavia?  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3836 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Any chance that Qantas or Air New Zealand would ever do a route to Scandinavia ? Australia and New Zealand are populare destinations with scandinavians...

What would that take ?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Not at all on NZ's radar - publicly they've spoken only about MAN and either FRA or MUC in terms of European destinations. I'd be surprised if the market would support even a few flights per week for both NZ and Australia to Scandinavia. A code share might be a possibility, though, I suppose?


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

I doubt Qantas would be even remotely interested. From my understanding, Scandanvian countries are considered fairly low yield.


Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

Well you could say that they do serve them through their respective alliances QF with BA and NZ with SAS and LH, so there is no reason for them to serve it directly.


"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 806 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Traffic between Australia/New Zealand and Scandinavia is mostly leaisure. A non stop service would not be profitable.The only airport that could possibly support this service would be CPH, but then its too close to FRA where both QF/NZ fly to allready.
you also have TG that flies to both OSL/ARN/CPH , not to mention SQ to CPH and while not Scandinavia , AY has also many easy connections from their Asian destinations.
But it would be nice to see QF and NZ in ARN.maybe in the future.
If i remember correctly, QF did operate some charters few years ago from LHR to ARN transporting some cruise passengers.



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Okay not a chance for QF mostly because of Scandianvain attitudes towards premium classes (or lack of suppor t) The demand for this flight would be mostly at the european end and mostly low yielding.

There is of course one possibility. Jetstar. If jetstar was to send a 332 via some leisure destination, provided it had 5th freedom rights (it usually would from Asia to europe as part of an Australia leg) then I could see that working. Somewhere such as Phuket. It is of course JQ's intention to start service to southern europe but Northern Europe may be an undiscovered opportunity particualrly if JQ get get in the the packaged wholesale bunch.

As for NZ. Well last i checked they didn't even serve FRA anymore. However years ago I had a thought of a way that may be able to make this work, provided they get anti trust immunity.
The route I would suggest would be AKL-DEN(or possibly SFO)-CPH. They would need SK and UA codes on the flights and they would need a full joint venture on the flights similar to AF/DL from JFK or QF/BA. SK would feed it from Scandinavia/Northern German/Finland/Russia (maybe even poland), UA at its hub. 772 obviously.


User currently offlinePagophilus From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

I doubt it. QF is not an adventurous airline. They don't like to try out new things, but they do know how to make money from what does work. Hence, they concentrate on high-yielding routes to popular destinations. Unfortunately, to Qantas, Europe consists of London, Paris, Frankfurt, Rome and that's about it. And that's why they've done remarkable well financially in recent years.

I'd rather fly Scandinavian Airlines via NRT anyway. Or a Star Alliance combination via BKK/SIN. QF staff are too "Australian" for my liking. Don't get me wrong, I like living here (in Australia), but "service" is something better left to others.


User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 4):
AY has also many easy connections from their Asian destinations.

Surprinsigly, the great circle map shows HEL is closer to SYD than any other hub in EU.
The connections between HEL and SYD can be pretty quick via HKG/BKK, next winter HEL-SYD 19h 40min via HKG, AY code sharing with CX.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5):
There is of course one possibility. Jetstar. If jetstar was to send a 332 via some leisure destination, provided it had 5th freedom rights (it usually would from Asia to europe as part of an Australia leg) then I could see that working. Somewhere such as Phuket.

Phuket could work, HKT already gets a LOT of leisure traffic from the Nordic countries. How about a new travel product like Thailand+Australia package...

[Edited 2009-09-14 03:22:55]

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3860 times:



Quoting Andaman (Reply 7):
Phuket could work, HKT already gets a LOT of leisure traffic from the Nordic countries.

Hmm i think we're onto something there. The labour costs of using jetstar staff should come in substancially below that of a swedish/danish charter airline (though nowhere near as cheap as say thai staff would be) and jetstar's 'star class' is probably more suited to scandinavian markets then a more luxurious offering price wise for this kind of market. It's really more a premium economy then a business class. If only 1/3 of the aircraft is Scandinavia/Australia traffic with the remaing 2/3rds from europe as Scandianvain going to HKT and from Australia as Aussies going to HKT then it should easy work. And that's without a single thai passenger!
Hmm Jetstar ppl, any of you reading this?


User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3821 times:



Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 4):
but then its too close to FRA where both QF/NZ fly to allready.

Sorry to say AirNZ pulled out of FRA many moons ago - LHR is the only Euro dest now via HKG or LAX from AKL


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2918 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3757 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 8):
Hmm i think we're onto something there.

Does Australia have 5th Freedom Beyond Rights from HKT available to a carrier like JQ?

Apart from a remote JQ chance I can't see QF or NZ mainline flying to CPH.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3748 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 10):
Does Australia have 5th Freedom Beyond Rights from HKT available to a carrier like JQ?

if QF has it its basically just a formality to transfer it over. Obviously if there's any frequency limit that'd dead in the ass if it means competing with LHR-BKK.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3741 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 10):



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 10):
Apart from a remote JQ chance I can't see QF or NZ mainline flying to CPH.

Oh its not just CPH. If they used JQ from HKT, the could go into ARN and probably OSL too, and I wouldn't be surprised if they could do the odd one from GOT as well.

Something like CPH and ARN 3 times per week, OSL and GOT maybe once or maybe a triangle fright for the 2.

But id start with just ARN and CPH. Probably ARN because its got less international service despite its population.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3701 times:



Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Australia and New Zealand are populare destinations with scandinavians...

Still, the volumes are quite small.

...and don't get me started on the yields- Backpackers and students don't exactly fill up the front of the plane


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3699 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 12):
If they used JQ from HKT, the could go into ARN and probably OSL too, and I wouldn't be surprised if they could do the odd one from GOT as well.

Doesn't some charter airlines fly from Scandinavia to HKT already?

Those blonde scandinavians seems to be everywhere.
I departured from GOA to BLR one evening when a Novair A320 left for ARNBig grin



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3680 times:



Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 14):
Doesn't some charter airlines fly from Scandinavia to HKT already?

yeah as do all other major european markets that like to travel a lot. You'd be competing...which JQ has shown it can do fairly well in this sort of low yeild market. It wouldn't be my personal choice unless the price is very very cheap, but I'm the sort of traveller who pays more to fly SQ or EK so I'm not the target market.


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

When you consider all the European airports that QF used to serve (CDG, FCO, ZRH, ATH, IST etc) but have since abandoned in favour of LHR and FRA only, it is highly unlikely that they will have their sights on Scandinavia. Besides which sending a 744 or a wide body over to Europe would have it away from base for 3/4 days, on a low yielding route, so they would be better placed using their resources on the more profitable routes.

Just like BA now only serves SYD in Australia, and leaves their passengers to connect at SYD (or BKK, SIN or HKG) with QF for other Australian cities, QF leaves their passengers to connect with BA at LHR (or LH at FRA) for other European cities. In fact, many of BA's flights from CPH, OSL and HEL are codeshares with QF.

I think we would more likely see the likes of EY or EH at CPH, OSL or HEL offering connections to Australia or New Zealand via their hubs at DUB or AHU.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

And with QR starting DOH-MEL on Dec 6, 2009, Stockholm will get a one-stop connection to Australia. DOH-SYD should be announced shortly as well.


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

@BCAL
You forgot BEG as well...

I think QF would rather start BEG or ATH as there is a very big population of Serbs, Macedonians(FYROMians), Greeks and Lebanese there. So if they really wanted to try something exotic they could launch flights to ATH and have the local airlines feed them pax from the surrounding countries... That could work, no?


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3542 times:



Quoting Airmale (Reply 17):
And with QR starting DOH-MEL on Dec 6, 2009, Stockholm will get a one-stop connection to Australia. DOH-SYD should be announced shortly as well.

Stockholm (Oslo and Copenhagen) already has that with Thai


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Qantas doesn't need to serve Scandinavia directly, they can use their partnership with FinnAir to bring passengers there.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3505 times:



Quoting JU068 (Reply 18):
@BCAL
You forgot BEG as well...

 bitelip 
Funny you should mention that as I remember back in the 1970s some of the best fares available when flying UK to Australia were with JAT. OA also had some good deals in those days, when nearly every major European airline flew to Australia and every major European City was served by QF.

 old 



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

LoooL I think JU had those two times a week... Or maybe more I am not sure.
I am not sure if QF stopped flying to BEG in 1982 or 1987, apparently it couldn't compete with JU... Argh how much things have changed since then  Smile

Was BEG QF's only communist destination in Europe? Or did they fly to some city other as well? Like SVO?


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3438 times:



Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
Was BEG QF's only communist destination in Europe? Or did they fly to some city other as well? Like SVO?

Looking at QF's timetables for 1962 and 1983, it seems that BEG was their only communist destination in Europe. Flights to SVO (although included on the QF route map) were "operated by other airlines for Qantas".



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Ah we were so special Big grin
Hope that one day they do return to BEG...

Besides the tourists flying to Australia are there many of them living down there?


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