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"Bluer Skies For Seaport"  
User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 250 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2020 times:

Didn't see this link to today's Oregonia story posted:

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...luer_skies_for_seaport_airlin.html

The article states that Seaport's service from PDX to Astoria and Newport is seeing some success... though it also admits the Astoria service averages around 2 passengers per flight. I don't know.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1990 times:
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I guess only in 2009 America can a 23% load factor be considered a "success."

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5266 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 1910 times:

I guess they are "seeing some success" if they expected only 1 person per flight.  Smile

Seriously, though, it seems that they are continuing to struggle finding a niche that will pay for itself, at least here in the PNW. I hope for the sake of diversity that they can, though.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1477 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1854 times:
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...as much as I love their concept and the PC-12, I cannot see how anyone can reasonably think this service will ever be self sustainable. Bottom line is, the PC-12 is way too much airplane for the job.

PDX-AST is only a 30 min or so flight. The block times between a PC-12 and Caravan are about the same on a segment so short. So there is no advantage to flying the PC-12 on those routes. The Caravan costs more than half less than the PC-12 does to operate per hour. Right now they are only filling 2.1 people per flight on $49 fares.

If they can't get more than that on those fares I am at a loss to see how anyone thinks this will work. Nobody will pay much more than $49 for a 30 min flight. With the PC-12 you'd either have to have 100% load factors or fares over $99 one way to break even on a less than full flight. I hope I'm wrong and am missing something. But I really just don't get how anyone invested in this airline.

9K probably could have made this work, as was suggested by the Newport council way back when they voted on it. 9K already had interline baggage agreements and access to ticketing systems as was requested by the AST/ONP. Seaport recently claimed they bought into global ticketing sites like Expedia. But they still have yet to get a baggage agreement with any other airline even though they were supposed to have one within 90 days. It's been way past 90 days and still nothing yet.

When the state of Oregon subsidy runs out, they will either keep AST/ONP propped up from the subsidies they get from their EAS routes to PDT and in the state of Arkansas, or they will just drop the routes altogether and try to focus on EAS markets.

Such a shame the city councils didn't stick with their initial choice, 9K, because they will be the ones burned in the end unless a new subsidy is offered once this one runs out.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5266 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

Convenient interlining is the only way to make it work if they don't have substantial O&D, and on a 30 minute flight they obviously can't expect much in the way of O&D in these markets.

BFI-PDX was an understandable venture, if flawed, but these routes really are not going to cut it for SeaPort unless someone can seemlessly and [relatively] effortlessly connect to a beyond point.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
Convenient interlining is the only way to make it work if they don't have substantial O&D, and on a 30 minute flight they obviously can't expect much in the way of O&D in these markets.


 checkmark   checkmark 

I am probably one of the most vocal rooters for SeaPort here -- I met them at the Oregon International Air Show and they are truly awesome people. The reality is, however, that four spokes in an isolated-system route structure will not work in the long run. I very much hope they can enter into a codeshare arrangement structure reasonably soon with another carrier. Would a codeshare with KenmoreAir work for connections to the norther part of Washington State? What other possible hookups exist?

~CGKings317  Smile



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5266 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

I support them, and thought that they might have some success in the BFI-PDX corridor, but I've lost my enthusiasm as they seem to lack a business plan that does not rely on subsidies.

If they can make it work, I think it'd be great. I'm just moving on from the enthusiasm to more of an interest.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1477 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1755 times:
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Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 5):
Would a codeshare with KenmoreAir work for connections to the norther part of Washington State?

While they don't have a formal codeshare, they have advertised in the past with Kenmore because they both fly into BFI. Don't know how much it has really worked though.

Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 5):
What other possible hookups exist?

Anything would help. They have to get an agreement with some carrier. They at least need interline agreements first to allow pax to check their bags all the way on one ticket. I always wonder if the "No TSA" part of their plan is negatively affecting their chances of a codeshare? It worked on the BFI-PDX pitch cause that was all O&D. But forcing people to take a shuttle bus and connect kind of defeats the purpose of a codeshare. Though I guess Kenmore and AS are about to sign an agreement similar to what I just described.

Bottom line, they need something because it's just not translating to anything substantial quite yet.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
but I've lost my enthusiasm as they seem to lack a business plan that does not rely on subsidies.

I agree. The CEO even at one point admitted that running an airline was so much harder than they thought (their management all have non-airline backgrounds). He had said that the EAS routes came at a welcome time because without it, the BFI-PDX route would have flopped. Pretty much tells you that their plan wouldn't have worked without EAS and the extra $1 million in investments they got a few months after their startup.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

I wonder what impact NOAA's move from Lake Union to Newport will affect traffic. As they start building the facility to get ready for 2011 opening, I am sure traffic will start to build. Perhaps QX might add some service too.

User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1477 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I wonder what impact NOAA's move from Lake Union to Newport will affect traffic. As they start building the facility to get ready for 2011 opening, I am sure traffic will start to build. Perhaps QX might add some service too.

Isn't the facility only going to provide something like 175 jobs? I wonder how much that will help long term. I'm sure short term as people and supplies come in it might help. But I don't know how many folks travel to and from those facilities. Does anyone know since it has been in the Seattle area?


User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4892 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1677 times:

Sometimes I wonder if certain EAS routes can easily be serviced by 172s or the like with the number of passengers they usually get on some of these routes...


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

I think Seaport really needs to take a look at their route structure, and investigate some business routes or full fare routes that can justify their aircraft they are operating...
Routes where they could operate this aircraft with adequate fares and reasonable loads should be considered..these include...

BOI-MSO-BIL This route was one of Big Sky's most profitable that was non EAS. The time required now on this is to connect thru SLC on OO-DL or through GEG or SEA on QX.

BOI-SUN (especially during the winter months) In the winter months, SUN can use almost all the capacity anyone can offer for connections from BOI.. QX operates 1 flight a day - It needs some flights to meet BOI arrivals for connectivity. Many of these passengers loathe the bus ride from BOI to the Sun Valley area

BOI-LWS this market needs a business departure from both ends. QX has reduced service down to 1 flight a day..at the end of the day from both Boi and LWS.

RNO-EKO-BOI This market has long been overlooked--As it stands now, all flights from to EKO go thru SLC. There are many mining & construction companies that have dual offices in BOI and EKO. EKO-RNO can support several flights a day for business between the 2 nevada cities, and the drive is long long between the two.

COE-BOI this is a route that could support the aircraft Seaport is using, with decent load factors almost assured. This route would be sure to be almost 90% Business Passengers who would appreciate direct flights from Idahos capital city to COE.

Interline agreements and code shares (similar to what ZK has with UA and F9) would most certainly help this out.--but to interline baggage etc, Seaport would probably have to give up on the nonTSA type operation.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1477 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1438 times:
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Well this just came across on the Daily Astorian.

http://www.dailyastorian.info/main.a...2&SubSectionID=395&ArticleID=64116

Quote:

In other business Tuesday, the Commission voted unanimously to:

amend the contract with SeaPort Airlines to extend the deadline for the company to implement electronic ticketing to March 2010 and eliminate the requirement for the company to sign interline baggage agreements. Crider said the e-ticketing process has proven expensive and time consuming and an interline baggage agreement would require SeaPort to follow Transportation Security Administration regulations and complicate the boarding process at the airports in Astoria and Newport.

The commission they are referring to is the Port of Astoria. This is extremely disappointing. Looks like SeaPort doesn't want to codeshare with anyone anytime soon if they won't even interline. It is really frustrating because the initial request for proposal for this service to AST/ONP called for at least interline baggage. Cape Air already has that ability and promised they would meet those requirements, including their extensive use of GDS when they bid. But SeaPort pulled the "we're a local company" card and won out only because the Port dragged their feet for so long that Cape could no longer commit to the original start date.

In my opinion, this is a huge blow to the success of these routes.


User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1413 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 12):
In my opinion, this is a huge blow to the success of these routes.

I would agree with you there. Non-TSA, and non-interlining to end destinations like Astoria, really serves no purpose to someone traveling beyond Portland, and how many passengers fly from Astoria with portland as their destination?


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5266 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1387 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 13):
and how many passengers fly from Astoria with portland as their destination?

I would guess close to none. Very disappointing outcome, considering how valuable an interline agreement would be for the very communities that this service is/was supposed to serve.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
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