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US Airways CLT-GIG Changes  
User currently offlineKinglobjaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10814 times:

Seems flight has been 0'ed out from 12/2-12/15 in each direction.

12/15 sees an earlier 8:30PM departure soutbound
12/16 sees a regular scheduled departure time

Have to contact Kirby to see what the heck is going on since I have to be on the inaugural flight and now it seems like we're not sure which one will be the actual southbound inaugural.

Anyone booked between 12/2-12/14 that received a schedule change email/notice or a call?

-Kinglobjaw


Kinglobjaw
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10722 times:

A possible sign that the service will not launch this winter. US Airways must start the route by December 15th. If they zero it out after that date without DOT permission for dormancy, they risk losing the frequencies.


a.
User currently offlineTheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10542 times:

It also shows an E190 running the route GIG-CLT on 15DEC. With F zeroed out!

User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10203 times:

Could see this coming from a mile away.

User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

Isn't US in the process of trading this frequency to DL for a GRU route as part of the LGA-DCA slot swap? Perhaps US has no intention of ever flying this route thinking the government approval for the trade will come in time.


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10119 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
US Airways must start the route by December 15th. If they zero it out after that date without DOT permission for dormancy, they risk losing the frequencies.

Technically, if the US/DL transaction date is completed by that date, then DL will be using those frequencies on its ATL-GIG route and they won't be dormant. US could then hold onto it's new unrestricted frequencies until everything is set up for them to launch GRU (assuming that process doesn't take an unreasonable amount of time that it attracts the interest of other airlines).

That said, I still think that US will launch CLT-GIG flights on 12/15 (12/16, northbound). Loads, outside of the now zeroed-out first two weeks, are not that bad thus far. 12/2 was a dumb start date anyhow; why you would start a new route in what is one of the slowest travel periods of the year (the lull between Thanksgiving and Christmas) when you could easily push it back two weeks is beyond me.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10031 times:



Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 5):
why you would start a new route in what is one of the slowest travel periods of the year (the lull between Thanksgiving and Christmas) when you could easily push it back two weeks is beyond me.

Same reason many new European routes launch in April/early May and many new Caribbean/LatAm routes launch in early November. There is always a "breaking in" period when flying to a new airport, and less passengers will be inconvenienced when you launch right before peak traffic. The last thing an airline wants to do is launch in the middle of peak travel. Launching a few weeks before is an excellent strategy.



a.
User currently offlineDLDTW1962 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9379 times:

Where are they getting the addtional aircraft for these flights. They are also starting CLT-HNL
non-stop the same time in Dec. ?

Chuck


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9254 times:
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How many 767's is US moving from PHL and Europe to launch Sao Paulo ?

User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9200 times:

US flies a number of 767 Europe routes only in the summer months (generally April or May through late September or October). The 767's have been generally used for domestic and Caribbean routes in the winter months. Also, US continues to take A330-200 deliveries this year, so will have more widebodies this winter, allowing 767s to operate to Hawaii and Brazil.

User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8610 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
A possible sign that the service will not launch this winter.

It should even launch this route to me is laughable for Latin America to work there has to be some O&D from your hub...ATL is another story...but they can't make secondary destinations work anyway...

Quoting DLDTW1962 (Reply 7):
Where are they getting the addtional aircraft for these flights. They are also starting CLT-HNL
non-stop the same time in Dec. ?

The 332s are starting to trickle in and 762s leftover go to CLT , plus, several destinations Eurpoean destinations from PHL are now seasonal



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineKinglobjaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8482 times:

Not to mention DUB, GLA, AMS, BRU and ARN which were all 767's now 757's. This winter, certain LHR/MUC flights get the A332 instead of the 767. Next summer, BCN and ATH go A332. That's were all the 767's are coming/will be coming from.

-Kinglobjaw



Kinglobjaw
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8776 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8417 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 10):
is laughable for Latin America to work there has to be some O&D from your hub...ATL is another story...

It is? What story is that?... I am sorry but Atlanta is not Miami. Both Atlanta and Charlotte function (and do it well) based on the same principles.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8304 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):

It is? What story is that?... I am sorry but Atlanta is not Miami. Both Atlanta and Charlotte function (and do it well) based on the same principles.

Atlanta actually has decent O&D to Brazil, Peru and Colombia. It's not Miami, but it's about 1,200% larger a market than Charlotte.



a.
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8028 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
Both Atlanta and Charlotte function (and do it well) based on the same principles.

CLT doesn't even come close to ATL

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Atlanta actually has decent O&D to Brazil, Peru and Colombia. It's not Miami, but it's about 1,200% larger a market than Charlotte.

Exactly why this route is doomed, US will realize it's under performing, but will be reluctant to pull out due to sheer embarrassment

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
It is? What story is that?...

The fact that there is a respectable O&D market, you can get anywhere from ATL, they have been in South America for quite some time, not venturing for the first time like US, it's CLT, US-South America is saturated...how can it work from a hub that doesn't even have O&D? How are you going to find connections when a large portion of this traffic starts or ends their journeys in Southern Florida?



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8006 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 14):
Exactly why this route is doomed, US will realize it's under performing, but will be reluctant to pull out due to sheer embarrassment

The fact that it's impossible to book GIG-CLT-GIG anywhere so far and there's been no advertising among the brazilian public and travel agents doesn't help the loads either.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7957 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
brazilian public and travel agents doesn't help the loads either.

Exactly for these type of routes you need to invest in infrastructure like that....Doug and the gang might realize that their just wasting cash and a 762



Our Returning Champion
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8776 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7939 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 14):
US will realize it's under performing, but will be reluctant to pull out due to sheer embarrassment

Sigh, and I suppose Delta never does that  Big grin

What with their 1,200% higher traffic, or so it appears... that's like an infomercial statistic right there. It sounds initially like it might really mean something, for the first couple seconds.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 14):
How are you going to find connections when a large portion of this traffic starts or ends their journeys in Southern Florida?

I suppose they would book it at usairways.com? Or aa.com? Sorry guys, I am just making obvious conversation.. hope you are having a good laugh wherever you are. This is like saying Washington, DC is smaller than New York, therefore Washington DC doesn't need any air service. CLT and ATL both earn their own lunch money every day. They compete, but they are both going to stick around. Lately, ATL is cutting international services and CLT, whose carrier was chronically short of widebody aircraft, is getting a bit of fill-in, experimentally, though some of it may work.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5374 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7931 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
What with their 1,200% higher traffic, or so it appears... that's like an infomercial statistic right there. It sounds initially like it might really mean something, for the first couple seconds.

Are you disputing the fact that ATL-GRU is a much larger market than CLT-GRU? Or, do you actually think that ATL-GRU is going to suffer simply because US is introducing CLT-GRU?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7856 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):

What with their 1,200% higher traffic, or so it appears... that's like an infomercial statistic right there. It sounds initially like it might really mean something, for the first couple seconds.

It does mean something. It's actually far more than 1,200%.

CLT-GIG is less than 1 PDEW.

ATL-GIG is, IIRC, 27 PDEW.

So make that 2,700% larger market, and then some, because CLT-GIG is so small it doesn't even register.



a.
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7856 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
ATL-GIG is, IIRC, 27 PDEW.

What was the PDEW just before ATL-GIG service was initiated?

I think that would be a more valuable statistic for comparison.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7857 times:

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 20):
What was the PDEW just before ATL-GIG service was initiated?

I don't know what it was in 1997. Atlanta-Brazil in general has always been a respectably sized market, even before Delta served. Varig even used to fly to Atlanta.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 20):
I think that would be a more valuable statistic for comparison.

It would be, but it won't change much. CLT-GIG will remain small. Market stimulation is rarely more than 30%. Of course, 30% on CLT-GIG would not even be one person. So maybe CLT-GIG will get 4 PDEW. Still pretty poor. Its no wonder US is pretty desperate to get into GRU ASAP. CLT-GRU actually has a shot. The local market is still non-existent, but the overall size of U.S.-GRU is dense enough that it should work.

[Edited 2009-09-16 21:37:47]


a.
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7855 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
What with their 1,200% higher traffic, or so it appears... that's like an infomercial statistic right there. It sounds initially like it might really mean something, for the first couple seconds.

Are you disputing the fact that ATL-GRU is a much larger market than CLT-GRU? Or, do you actually think that ATL-GRU is going to suffer simply because US is introducing CLT-GRU?

I think what Flighty is referring to that you shouldn't be "wowed" by that astronomical percentage, when looking at the raw numbers would give a better indication of the difference. Sure 1200% difference is correct, but it makes more sense to say that ATL has ~25 more PDEW than CLT. In other words, the success of BOTH the CLT and ATL flights is HEAVILY dependent upon connections.

I wouldn't use the word "suffer" but, ATL-GRU will certainly be affected by CLT-GRU.

Local ATL-GRU traffic? Probably not
A portion of the GRU traffic that currently flows over ATL though? Absolutely

Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
The fact that it's impossible to book GIG-CLT-GIG anywhere so far and there's been no advertising among the brazilian public and travel agents doesn't help the loads either.

Well, US is still waiting on final approval from the Brazilian government. IIRC, B6 ran into a similiar situation with MCO-BOG in which travel had to originate in the US at first.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 14):
CLT doesn't even come close to ATL

US will be able to connect upwards of 95% of GIG traffic that can currently connect via ATL, so yes, it does come close.


User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7711 times:

I am skeptical that US can pull off either HNL or Brazil from CLT but i wish them the best and hope they pull them off to become profitable routes

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

It seems everything is back to normal. All flights scheduled before December 15th show availability as usual. Inaugural CLT-GIG remains December 2nd.

25 ThegreatRDU : Where are they going to get the connecting traffic from? Exactly CLT-GIG just has no chance Ok if you say so
26 LipeGIG : They will have problems to reschedule the passengers if they decide to Even with that some flights show around 60% load even 75 days before the first
27 CV880 : The same places that DL gets its traffic from........connections, whether the end point is GIG or GRU. The local ATL-GIG or GRU traffic would never s
28 MAH4546 : Except Varig flew to Atlanta before Delta even tried it. Atlanta-Brazil is big enough on its own for 4 weekly flights to GRU. It has a good O&D compo
29 FutureUScapt : Not disputing that there is an O&D component from ATL, but I'd hesitate to say that anything RG flew should be used as a measuring stick for success.
30 FreequentFlier : CLT-GIG could very well go down as one of the worst markets of all time. The P&Ls are going to be absolutely disastrous.
31 ThegreatRDU : Now what about the O&D from CLT Thank you, this route is senseless
32 LipeGIG : The same comment was made 4 years ago when DL decided to venture on ATL-GIG. Probably because there's still the general sense that Rio de Janeiro is
33 CV880 : Well what is it? It looks like both GRU/GIG are daily from ATL. That doesn't make it or break it, as CLT is a connecting hub, just as ATL. When the w
34 MAH4546 : What is what? If there was zero feed, Atlanta-Brazil could support 4 weekly flights. But there is plenty feed, so there is more service than that. CL
35 LipeGIG : There's a true lack of flights from U.S. to GIG. Probably you're considering the size of Brazil-US market but Rio, with a O&D to U.S. of around 800,0
36 CV880 : Referring to my comment above I was referring to the ATL-GRU pdew figures as MAH4546 had quoted an approximate 27pdew for ATL-GIG which would maybe s
37 LipeGIG : Thanks. Lets see how they will perform but per the reasons i gave plus your comment showing that CLT-GIG is not different in terms of how it depends
38 Brandonfsu05 : US Airways knows what it is doing...They just don't jump into things without serious consideration...The flight is really PHL-GIG with a stop in CLT..
39 MAH4546 : CCS isn't happening. The market is closed to new entry.
40 Brandonfsu05 : Well I don't know...This is just what I've heard around..things change though...didn't think US Airways had a chance getting into GRU either until Del
41 Jcs17 : One city pair for you... PHL-PEK. USAirways is, and will be hampered by its hubs. One of the reasons, I believe, that Dougie tried to buy Delta was t
42 FutureUScapt : You sure it wasn't maybe Curacao, as in CUR and not CCS
43 Commavia : Of course they do. Witness the comical farce that is Charlotte-Rio, and the even bigger comical farce that is Philadelphia-Beijing. A through-connect
44 Flighty : It's just one flight. US is a pretty big airline. It's not a big deal. They will try Rio and, if it's really terrible, they will cut it. I think we a
45 MAH4546 : You are delusional if you think US Airways is actually going to launch PHL-PEK.
46 IliriBDL : Yeah, at this point its 95% chance it will not start. Doug said they'll give up the right (will try and push it again, but won't happen) then re-appl
47 MAH4546 : That makes sense, though I bet "some point" doesn't happen for a while. GRU will work, but it won't be a hit from the start. US Airways needs to focu
48 Neo : And here we have Mr. Now it All... infact we have quite a few in this thread that are so certain they know better than the own US executives. To me i
49 Commavia : I'm not saying that I know for certain precisely what will happen in the future, nor do I presume to know more than USAirways executives, but I have
50 Flighty : No, I was just saying so far so good. They haven't lost money on it yet. I have seen worse follies than that.
51 ThegreatRDU : Is US-Brazil is saturated? Horrible logic choice that doesn't even make sense...all those airports you mention have service to ATL... Just like they
52 Neo : Yes, I was actually impressed with your performance, but overall a 9 out of 10!! That little sarcasm at the end threw you off. Neo
53 Neo : Comments to pass by..... 1! Neo
54 Brandonfsu05 : To put it simply....what airline would launch a route that will most certainly fail and bleed money? Prior to the GRU trade with Delta I would assume
55 USAirALB : Yeah-When they announced it LAS still had the night flight hub and PIT still had flights to ALB. My how things have changed.
56 MAH4546 : It's .55 PDEW. But close enough.
57 LipeGIG : The fact is that, you wont have a chance on a very competitive market. Their chances of success resides on the fact that GIG still need more non-stop
58 Incitatus : That is not the right math. When it comes to air service, the largest airport in a region or country always takes a greater share of flights than its
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