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Why Does AA Fly DEN-LAX Twice A Day  
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6159 times:

I am wondering why AA flies DEN-LAX market twice a day. It cant be for the O&D market with two discount carriers and UA price matching them.

-With Frontier, Southwest, and United in the market it has to be very low yielding market
-Is the flight a feeder for AA? Possible to NRT or where else?
-Is the flight a feeder for Qantas?

Seems like a low yielding route with the competition there it has to be for connections. Where to?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6147 times:

You are entirely ignoring how big American Airlines is at LAX.

AA is the single largest carrier at LAX. AA/MQ is the second-largest airline at LAX. AA is the leader in revenue at LAX, ahead of UA.

Denver-Los Angeles is a major O&D market, and AA, hence, serves it. It also feeds to Australia and Asia on AA's partners at LAX - QF, JL, CX and MU.

Is it profitable for AA on local traffic? I bet it probably is not. Though sometimes airlines fly routes that are important in the grand scheme of the network. And also consider that AA, with AS, can get passengers from LA to just about every major city very quickly and easily outside of the Rocky Mountain region, so DEN makes even more sense then.

[Edited 2009-09-15 21:29:18]


a.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26174 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6092 times:

Used to be 3x daily, but was reduced to 2x this year. One of the flights connects to AA NRT service, with other having some lengthy connections opportunity from QF also.

Overall don't see much direct value in this flight as local O&D traffic would seek out the ~20 other daily nonstops on F9, UA or WN. I suppose a few AA diehard would wait around for the two flights.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5413 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Though sometimes airlines fly routes that are important in the grand scheme of the network.

It could be (pure speculation on my part) that AA added the route because of a corporate contract in Los Angeles - the contract might be lucrative enough that AA is willing to lose money on 2x day LAX-DEN to keep the contract.

It's well known that NW's mini hub at IND was set up in exchange for NW receiving Eli Lilly's corporate contract, which had previously been with UA. NW was willing to lose money on some short haul RJ flying out of IND, in exchange for very profitable incremental business to Europe and Asia.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Could AA pull off a DEN-JFK 738 to connect with its European, Canada, East Coast, Bermuda and other island connections?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26174 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

No I cant see AA doing a DEN-JFK.

Even Delta with its much larger JFK connection opportunities has struggled over the years on the route having restarted DEN only in Jul07 and maintains only a single 738 frequency.

Additionaly JFK is not a AA 737 station so for now it would need to be a MD80 or 757, plus what network opportunities does JFK realy provide AA that cannot be had via existing DEN-DFW, ORD or MIA flights?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4846 times:

Slightly off-topic...

Why has UA never tried a single-daily DEN-JFK or even ORD-JFK?? They only have their p.s. transcons to SFO/LAX and a few RJ's a day to IAD.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26174 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Because UA flies DEN-LGA and ORD-LGA the preferred local O&D pair. If UA could operate p.s. from LGA, they very much would.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4772 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Additionaly JFK is not a AA 737 station so for now it would need to be a MD80 or 757,

There may be other problems with the route, but that isn't one of them - JFK-DEN is comfortably within the M83's range.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4638 times:
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Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Could AA pull off a DEN-JFK 738 to connect with its European, Canada, East Coast, Bermuda and other island connections?

Most of that traffic an be done by AA over ORD. No one has more international service from ORD then AA, yes even more then United.


User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4396 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Because UA flies DEN-LGA and ORD-LGA the preferred local O&D pair. If UA could operate p.s. from LGA, they very much would.

Why can't they? The 757 can operate from LGA and they already offer service x/LGA to DEN so there should be no scope clause. Is it just a slot issue?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26174 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

LGA has the Perimeter Rule. Neither service to LAX nor SFO are authorized (except Saturdays when the rule does not appy).


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3914 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 10):
Why can't they? The 757 can operate from LGA and they already offer service x/LGA to DEN so there should be no scope clause. Is it just a slot issue?

UA also flies DEN-EWR 3x daily on A319/A320/757. For some reason UA feels LGA and EWR work better than JFK from DEN. But I do think UA could at least attempt DEN-JFK with A319...

I flew LAX-DEN back when it was 3x M80 service in 2005. It was nice, nothing special but had two seats to myself on the super 80. I remember in 2004 for a short while AA flew 757s on LAX-DEN/LAS as well...

For the record I'd probably fly UA in the future because of how many 757/767 they have on a two hour flight. Last year I flew LAX-DEN-EWR all 757s and UA's terminal at DEN is super nice and has held up well with good restaurants and beer...



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

MAH's first reply is spot on.. The route does add value to their LAX operation even though it is probably marginal at best..

A number of years ago (10 years I think) I got a dirt cheap fare on AA for DEN-LAX-BFL and back (Eagle on the 2nd portion). To the best of my knowledge Eagle no longer serves BFL. So I think AA has been in the market along time, despite having a small presence.

I have also known people in DEN that like AA, and fly it when possible. Not everyone at a hub city necessarily prefers the hubbing airline. Like I know people in DEN that like CO also.

Regarding the side topic of JFK routes, UA is satisfied with DEN-EWR/LGA flights, a JFK flight adds nothing. Perfectly analogous to CO's presence on IAH-LGA/EWR


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