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Dubai Airport Open To Having Foreign Anchor  
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Sounds like neither Emirates or FlyDubai are keen to move to the new Al Maktoum airport

http://www.ameinfo.com/209494.html

Air Asia X have already chosen Abu Dhabi as Middle East hub, any speculation who the potential 'Asian or European' airline could be ?


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Shame the QF group wouldn't be a little more adventurous and consider establishing a hub for JQ there once the 787s start to arrive (or even QF long  Wink ), offereing connecting flights to Europe and the Middle-East, they could even look at establishing the Jetstar franchise in the area for shorter-haul regional flights as they have in Vietnam to offer some better feed, or even feed the flights from Jetstar Pacific and 3K from Asia....

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5445 times:
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It is all very well for the UAE to say that they will allow a non-UAE carrier to hub there , but any carrier wishing to do so is also going to need to get approval from any countries that they wish to fly to which is by no means guaranteed .

eg if JQ wanted to set up a hub there to operate services from , say , Australia , Vietnam and Singapore to the UK , Germany , Greece , etc etc then permission from the UAE doesnt mean anything if those other countries do not also grant JQ rights to fly between their countries and the UAE - in some cases they may already have those rights , in some others it is quite likely that they would get approval but for others it may not be forthcoming . I think that this is often overlooked when the Dubai authorities talk about third party carriers being able to set up a hub on their turf .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5378 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
It is all very well for the UAE to say that they will allow a non-UAE carrier to hub there , but any carrier wishing to do so is also going to need to get approval from any countries that they wish to fly to which is by no means guaranteed .

That is very true however, in that case it it is quite possible for a foreign carrier to setup a UAE based subsidiary which would be under the same exact benefits/restrictions as the other UAE based carriers. We have seen that in the past: British Asia Airways, KLM Asia, etc.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5366 times:
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Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
That is very true however, in that case it it is quite possible for a foreign carrier to setup a UAE based subsidiary which would be under the same exact benefits/restrictions as the other UAE based carriers. We have seen that in the past: British Asia Airways, KLM Asia, etc.

actually British Asia Airways , KLM Asia etc were not examples of that - they remained respectively British and Dutch carriers rather than being Taiwanese carriers - they were operating from their homes bases to TPE rather than setting up a separate hub in TPE



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineYOWza From Nepal, joined Jul 2005, 4887 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5152 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
It is all very well for the UAE to say that they will allow a non-UAE carrier to hub there , but any carrier wishing to do so is also going to need to get approval from any countries that they wish to fly to which is by no means guaranteed .

Exactly! It annoys me to no end Dubai inc prattle on about open skies. Open skies ex-DXB means competing with EK which means a) you're helping Dubai's economy but b) competing with EK which will always end in a loss.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
That is very true however, in that case it it is quite possible for a foreign carrier to setup a UAE based subsidiary which would be under the same exact benefits/restrictions as the other UAE based carriers.

That is open to debate; depending on anything from code shares to booking paths to ownership percentages there is plenty of scope for a wrench to be thrown in and there is little guarantee that such a player would be widely tolerated/welcomed.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 3):
British Asia Airways, KLM Asia, etc.

Entirely wrong as Andrew has pointed out.Though KL Asia was a different "airline" registered in Taiwan there was one purpose to its existence only and that was not creating a KL hub overseas.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8363 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5056 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
actually British Asia Airways , KLM Asia etc were not examples of that - they remained respectively British and Dutch carriers rather than being Taiwanese carriers - they were operating from their homes bases to TPE rather than setting up a separate hub in TPE

You are right about British Asia Airways but KLM Asia was a wholly owned subsidiary of KLM but registered in Taiwan.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):
Entirely wrong as Andrew has pointed out.Though KL Asia was a different "airline" registered in Taiwan there was one purpose to its existence only and that was not creating a KL hub overseas.

I'm not argueing with the purpose of said subsidiaries. I'm just stating that a foreign subsidiary can be created to get around various restrictions. Today's various Virgin group airlines are another example. They are not subsidiaries because such would be illegal but it's blantantly obvious who is in charge.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4927 times:
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Quoting CV580Freak (Thread starter):
Sounds like neither Emirates or FlyDubai are keen to move to the new Al Maktoum airport

I don't think the article suggest that at all. Neither airline gives their opinion (if they were asked). All we get is a quote from DXB. All a bit curious.

Personally, I can't imagine why EK wouldn't move out of DXB to the new airport. By the time all their 777s, A380s and A350s are delivered, DXB simply won't be able to cope.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

I think that EK probably wants to stay at DXB for a while longer-5-7 years before they move ops to DWC. They've got a brand-new flagship terminal at DXB for crying out loud.
DXB has been for many years an Open Skies facility, and numerous airlines had extensive fifth-freedom rights beyond DXB. However, the advent of nonstop flights made this particular usage of DXB redundant. That's why Malaysian no longer operates DXB-NYC, or SQ to LHR etc. So it would be extremely interesting should an airline decide to return to this practice big time. EK plans on becoming a transit airline for the masses (already is obviously), and in that no airline rivals it at DXB. Should an airline establish a hub on EK's turf, this would obviously eat up EK's market share. CX, SQ and BA may all fly triple-daily to DXB to their respective distribution hubs but DXB for them is a spoke-an important spoke, most likely but a spoke nevertheless.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4614 times:
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Quoting Directorguy (Reply 8):
I think that EK probably wants to stay at DXB for a while longer-5-7 years before they move ops to DWC. They've got a brand-new flagship terminal at DXB for crying out loud.

Yes, you're right. I wasn't suggesting they move "tomorrow". However, I fail to see why Dubai would spend $billions building a state-of-the-art, 6-runway, mega-airport and not have EK use it as their main hub.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17495 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4548 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
I fail to see why Dubai would spend $billions building a state-of-the-art, 6-runway, mega-airport and not have EK use it as their main hub.

They just built the world with no buyers Wink



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5659 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4480 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
eg if JQ wanted to set up a hub there to operate services from , say , Australia , Vietnam and Singapore to the UK , Germany , Greece , etc etc then permission from the UAE doesnt mean anything if those other countries do not also grant JQ rights to fly between their countries and the UAE - in some cases they may already have those rights , in some others it is quite likely that they would get approval but for others it may not be forthcoming

I agree with Smi0006, that this presents a great possibility for the QF Group.

Andrew, in the specific case of QF Group, ALL the bilateral rights you mentioned, except Vietnam, are in place and have been for decades.Every Oz-Europe bilateral allows for
Middle Eastern stopovers, most, if not all with 5th freedom. And if the EU/Oz Open Sky ever gets signed it'll be even easier.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 14 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

One possibility

SAS to up Dubai services

SAS Scandinavian Airlines plans to expand in the Middle East and to South Asia by using Dubai as its regional hub,

http://www.ameinfo.com/209762.html

EK's coverage of Scandinavia is poor, is this an opportunity for SAS ???



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 3461 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
I wasn't suggesting they move "tomorrow".

Wikipedia says it will be fully built by 2017. Google Maps satellite photo from 2009 only shows something like single half-built runway plus two half-built taxiways with no construction equipment visible. Are they even serious about building it?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
They just built the world with no buyers

Exactly. Will DWC runways be used for parking fleeing expats' cars, instead of full DXB parking lots?

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 12):
EK's coverage of Scandinavia is poor, is this an opportunity for SAS ???

EK's coverage of Scandinavia is indeed non-existent (so far anyway), but for SK to do something like this will almost certainly be suicide. It seems Nordic governments have indicated that they can't and won't prop up SAS anymore, so I don't see how engaging in a new venture wouldn't be a final nail on it's coffin.

BTW, Norwegian flies to OSL-DXB in winter and Qatar does ARN-DOH several times weekly.


User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 3432 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 13):
Wikipedia says it will be fully built by 2017. Google Maps satellite photo from 2009 only shows something like single half-built runway plus two half-built taxiways with no construction equipment visible. Are they even serious about building it?

First flights expected in 2010

Quoting Borism (Reply 13):
Exactly. Will DWC runways be used for parking fleeing expats' cars, instead of full DXB parking lots?

Your humour astonishes me  Sad



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 hours ago) and read 3416 times:



Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 14):
Quoting Borism (Reply 13):
Exactly. Will DWC runways be used for parking fleeing expats' cars, instead of full DXB parking lots?

Your humour astonishes me

If you think it makes me happy that Dubai is becoming ghost city you're very wrong.


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1681 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 3349 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
Yes, you're right. I wasn't suggesting they move "tomorrow". However, I fail to see why Dubai would spend $billions building a state-of-the-art, 6-runway, mega-airport and not have EK use it as their main hub.

No one's been clear about EK's future role re. DWC. Would EK 'split' its hub in two? Would DXB relocate to DWC completely? Or perhaps EK plans on having flights from both airports, with passengers shuttling between both airports via a high-speed rail link (effectively making DWC seem like a distant terminal ride from DXB).

Quoting Borism (Reply 15):
If you think it makes me happy that Dubai is becoming ghost city you're very wrong.

Actually, I personally don't know what to make of the current situation. Some say it's become a ghost town-and yes, I have seen for myself the deserted carks (which for some reason don't dissapear right away). But at the same time-people shop in malls, we stil have rush hours. And real estate prices after the 'crash' aren't that low.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2489 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 3326 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 16):
No one's been clear about EK's future role re. DWC. Would EK 'split' its hub in two?

EK will stay at DXB, all foreign carriers will probably be forced to land in DWC.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 3282 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 16):
But at the same time-people shop in malls, we stil have rush hours. And real estate prices after the 'crash' aren't that low.

It's called The Denial phase.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1995 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Wouldn't this be a good opportunity for any alliance to setup a hub in DXB?

User currently offlineYOWza From Nepal, joined Jul 2005, 4887 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 3271 times:



Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
Wouldn't this be a good opportunity for any alliance to setup a hub in DXB?

No. Any alliance would need to negotiate 5th freedom traffic rights between DXB and subsequent points. No single carrier or alliance would be able to wrestle DXB away from EK.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineMdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 3259 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 16):
No one's been clear about EK's future role re. DWC. Would EK 'split' its hub in two? Would DXB relocate to DWC completely? Or perhaps EK plans on having flights from both airports, with passengers shuttling between both airports via a high-speed rail link (effectively making DWC seem like a distant terminal ride from DXB).

One scenario that could happen is EK moves to DWC and then someone come in and start to dominating DXB (a low cost carrier or something), eventually forcing EK to consolidate all ops to just DWC. In other words, DWC becomes an airport serving network carriers and DXB becomes a home for LLC. Chicago and Dallas are good examples of this kind. If this happens, EK will see its traffic siphoned off.


User currently offlineACKattack From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 3215 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 6):
Today's various Virgin group airlines are another example.

Wouldn't the virgin group be the one most likely to take up this "offer." They are very good at setting up foreign entities with the same brand. I could see them setting up a Virgin Dubai or Virgin Emirates and using DXB as a hub for doing the same thing EK does. Unfortunately, Virgin would probably have to tone down its use of sex and sexuality in its brand a bit.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17495 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 hours ago) and read 3187 times:



Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
Wouldn't this be a good opportunity for any alliance to setup a hub in DXB?

That's assuming DXB is a place anyone wants to be in the future.

Quoting ACKattack (Reply 22):
They are very good at setting up foreign entities with the same brand. I could see them setting up a Virgin Dubai or Virgin Emirates and using DXB as a hub for doing the same thing EK does

Nobody is going to compete against what is essentially an arm of the government.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAirbus1 From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Prediction time:

Within 5 years EK and EY will have been merged - probably into an airline called Emirates which is by a distance the stronger brand.

The airline will hub at JXB from say 2017/2018. That gived EK 8 years of the new terminal.

DXB will be closed; the land is city centre and can be quickly reused - Lower Mirdiff will do as a name! AUH is also building a new mid field terminal which can serve until 2017/2018.

JXB is well on the way to AUH. There is little logic in two massive international carriers operating a hub and spoke out of the UAE.

And a 5 (it was 6 - but I think is now 5) runway airport and 120m passenger terminal needs a resident airline.

Airbus1


25 Thenoflyzone : Well, since we are predicting, here is another prediction..... DWC will become a white elephant, just like YMX. This new airport is too far from downt
26 Pellegrine : Are they joking, no one wants to go up against EK in Dubai, there is no real need to. Why would JXB even be constructed if EK does not want to move? E
27 Detroiter : well, there is one point i think important and no one has touched. this Mega airport was planed and being built to serve the expansion of Dubai. now a
28 Thenoflyzone : I heard the same thing two months ago, when i was in Dubai. Most projects there are now on hold, so it would not surprise me to see DWC get downsized
29 Directorguy : It has been suggested before by a.nutters (incl. myself) that Virgin should have a 'Virgin Arabia' or something. Sadly that is wishful thinking-and t
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