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KLM Cargo 747's Will Go To Martinair  
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10279 times:

Latest news, according several Dutch newspapers.

All four (4) 747-400ERF aircraft operated by KLM cargo will be operated by MP.
MP will take over all cargo operations from KLM.
Michael Wisbrun, chief of KLM Cargo will give more details next week.

[Edited 2009-09-17 23:49:02]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10279 times:
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I believe that both the KL and the AF 744 freighter fleets will go to Martinair - will try to find the link I saw that mentioned this


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8739 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10245 times:

The all cargo aircraft of both KL and AF will go to Martinair.

What AFKL does here is nothing else but repeating what LH has done in 1993 with the formation of Lufthansa Cargo AG. I have no information yet if the go all the way and have Martnair also marketing the belly capacities of AFKL, which would be a logical step, The biggest obstacles would be to make it clear that MP is AFKL. Should not be so difficult since cargo is mainly distributed through freight forwarders and not retailed by the airline itself.

This will go together with a drastic reduction in the workforce, alone 1500 jobs will be axed at AF.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10090 times:

This 747 was already far ahead with integrating MP and AFKL Cargo.
Leased from KL (06 June 2003 until 29 December 2006) and operated by MP, now operated (presently stored) with Southern Air as N748SA.


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Photo © Bailey - AirTeamImages
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Photo © Eduard Brantjes



[Edited 2009-09-18 02:43:41]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9674 times:

Will AFKL cargo routes also be transferred to MP?

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8739 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9654 times:



Quoting 777way (Reply 4):
Will AFKL cargo routes also be transferred to MP?

it would not make sense any other way....



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1800 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9591 times:
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Great news though, I hope to see MP Cargo making some serious profit again!


Fly DC-Jets!
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8331 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I believe that both the KL and the AF 744 freighter fleets will go to Martinair - will try to find the link I saw that mentioned this

I found following article, concerning AF,KL and MP, on the Internet :
http://www.joc.com/node/413351



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1907 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8159 times:

According to the rumors, AF-KLM is currently looking at:

* Establishing Martinair as the cargo branch for AF-KLM, including the cargo planes and routes from AF and KLM.

* Martinair will cease passenger flights from summer season 2010. Those flights will mainly be taken over by KLM and Transavia. Some destinations will be axed.

* There are also rumors to create one commuter branch, so merging AF Regional and KLM Cityhopper into the CityJet brand.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently onlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2216 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8145 times:

I know this is not likely to happen, but it would be nice to see a sweet tri-airline livery (AF/KL/MP) on the 744s. Something like the old Star Alliance livery where they painted sections of what 6-7 airlines on one airframe.


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Something like this, but then with AF-KL-MP would indeed be great:


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Photo © Xu Zheng



User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8739 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8113 times:

This move makes only sense when Martinair markets the bellie capacities of both AFKL and as well. Plus, they must merge the GSA actuvities of Skyteam cargo. Lufthansa Cargo and their affiliates offer a doable blueprint for this,


I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8065 times:

Some questions :
- How many cargo aircraft are operating at the moment for AF,KL and MP?
- How many are stored in the desert ?
- How many KL (AF) combi's are actual operating in combi configuration (7 pallet main deck).
- Is the 747-combi concept still valid in the present economic situation, or is it even preferred with low cargo volumes.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7889 times:



Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 8):
Martinair will cease passenger flights from summer season 2010

Source?


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1907 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7818 times:



Quoting 76er (Reply 13):
Source?

Talked about it in a meeting with Martinair execs just a few weeks ago. Can't go into the specifics as it was a meeting between my company and Martinair Cargo.

Also, the plan is at the unions (ondernemingsraad) for advise as it means that staff is to be moved to either KLM, Transavia or out of the company.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineVal747 From France, joined Aug 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 7553 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I believe that both the KL and the AF 744 freighter fleets will go to Martinair - will try to find the link I saw that mentioned this

Hi everyone,

AF is currently using 7 freighter, one beiing in China (Xianmeng) for check and apparently won't come back any time soon. and an other one is going out of the fleet for the winter, so it will only make 5 a/c, 3 744ERF, one two 777F. they will be used for routes with high demand and for west african routes.AF will use mainly pax a/c for the freight from now on.
KL will still use their combi (17 if i'm not mistaken), and the rest will go to MP (7MD11, 2747, plus the 2 KL747).

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 9):
I know this is not likely to happen, but it would be nice to see a sweet tri-airline livery (AF/KL/MP) on the 744s.

One sweet idea!


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

According the fleet-listing of http://www.airlinerlist.com I count the following aircraft available for the AF/KL/MP combination.

AF:
5x B747-428ERF active
3x B747-428BCF stored
2x B777-28F active
2x B747-228F stored

KL:
2x B747-406ERF active
17x B747-406M active

MP:
2x B747-406ERF active (leased from KL)
4x B747-412BCF stored
7x MD11F active

Quoting Val747 (Reply 15):
AF is currently using 7 freighter, one beiing in China (Xianmeng) for check and apparently won't come back any time soon. and an other one is going out of the fleet for the winter, so it will only make 5 a/c, 3 744ERF, one two 777F. they will be used for routes with high demand and for west african routes.AF will use mainly pax a/c for the freight from now on.

So if I understand correctly : One 747-428ERF will go out of the fleet or are you speaking about the XMN converted BCF-freighters ? Will all go to MP or will some stay with AF?



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 7150 times:

Who will take over Martinair's passenger operations?

User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1907 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6960 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 17):
Who will take over Martinair's passenger operations?

As mentioned above, the passenger operations will be transferred to KLM and Transavia. However, some routes will also be axed.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9564 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

Even though the move of MP turning into an all-cargo airline doesn't sound that far fetched I would like to see a official press release by AF/KL about this before saying it will happen prematurely.

A388


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2009 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6680 times:



Quoting 747classic (Thread starter):
Michael Wisbrun, chief of KLM Cargo will give more details next week.

This quote is dated 17 Sept. 2009.
So, we have 5 working days left to get the official news, according the largest Dutch newspaper "Telegraaf".



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

It appears AF/Cargo is kept out of the shakeup. For now.

http://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/air-...t-auf-belly-transporte-885657.html

(sorry, in German only)


User currently offlineEuclid From South Africa, joined Apr 2005, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6526 times:



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 9):
Something like the old Star Alliance livery where they painted sections of what 6-7 airlines on one airframe.

Any photos of this anywhere? Would love to see that.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24073 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6402 times:



Quoting Euclid (Reply 22):
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 9):
Something like the old Star Alliance livery where they painted sections of what 6-7 airlines on one airframe.

Any photos of this anywhere? Would love to see that.

Here are a few:


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Photo © Daniel R.Carneiro
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Photo © Michael Bogensperger



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Photo © Joe Pries - ATR Team
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Photo © Sunbird Photos by Don Boyd



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Photo © Bowen Chau
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Photo © SkyLiner



User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

That is my favorite livery of all time

25 Post contains images 747classic : What will happen with these four (4) 747-412BCF aircraft, on long term lease from Guggenheim Aviation Partners? All (PH-MPP,MPQ,MPR and MPS) are prese
26 A388 : Getting the GE-powered 744ERF's from KL Cargo actually "disrupts" the engine commonality as MP Cargo with their fleet currently is all-PW (744BCF's &
27 76er : Day to day ops with the BCF was already done by KLM Maintenance, so changing things over to the GE powered ERF just made things simpler.
28 Euclid : Thanks Viscount. In hindsight, I should probably never have seen that. Does not look good, but that's my humble opinion, of course.
29 Post contains links 76er : Interesting article today in Cargonews Asia: http://www.cargonewsasia.com/secured/article.aspx?id=15&article=20782
30 FCKC : Pretty sure both 777-F28s will not go to MP , and will try fo find a new home elsewhere.
31 413X3 : I am sure Fedex would jump all over those 777 freighters. And I wonder if UPS would go for the -400BCFs?
32 747classic : Do you mean the three (3) stored 747-428BCF freighters of AF (CF6 powered), that would make sense. The four (4) 747-412BCF (MP) freighters are PW pow
33 413x3 : Doesn't UPS have some PW powered airplanes? I am sure they can train the technicians to service those too
34 FX1816 : Yeah they do, some 752's and MD11's, but it might be kind of costly to add just a couple of 744 BCF's to the fleet with PW power. FX1816
35 747classic : It's not just training the technicians, when adding a new airframe engine combination to your existing fleet. You have to update all your documentati
36 413x3 : Thanks for that info. it seems UPS grabs all the 747s they can and adds them to the fleet, while all that costs extra maybe they find it worthwhile in
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