747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7576 times:
Latest news, according several Dutch newspapers.
All four (4) 747-400ERF aircraft operated by KLM cargo will be operated by MP.
MP will take over all cargo operations from KLM.
Michael Wisbrun, chief of KLM Cargo will give more details next week.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 6019 posts, RR: 27 Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7542 times:
The all cargo aircraft of both KL and AF will go to Martinair.
What AFKL does here is nothing else but repeating what LH has done in 1993 with the formation of Lufthansa Cargo AG. I have no information yet if the go all the way and have Martnair also marketing the belly capacities of AFKL, which would be a logical step, The biggest obstacles would be to make it clear that MP is AFKL. Should not be so difficult since cargo is mainly distributed through freight forwarders and not retailed by the airline itself.
This will go together with a drastic reduction in the workforce, alone 1500 jobs will be axed at AF.
Kole Feut un'n steiffen Wind gifft en krusen Büdel un' 'nen lütten Pint.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7387 times:
This 747 was already far ahead with integrating MP and AFKL Cargo.
Leased from KL (06 June 2003 until 29 December 2006) and operated by MP, now operated (presently stored) with Southern Air as N748SA.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1): I believe that both the KL and the AF 744 freighter fleets will go to Martinair - will try to find the link I saw that mentioned this
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5456 times:
According to the rumors, AF-KLM is currently looking at:
* Establishing Martinair as the cargo branch for AF-KLM, including the cargo planes and routes from AF and KLM.
* Martinair will cease passenger flights from summer season 2010. Those flights will mainly be taken over by KLM and Transavia. Some destinations will be axed.
* There are also rumors to create one commuter branch, so merging AF Regional and KLM Cityhopper into the CityJet brand.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1524 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5442 times:
I know this is not likely to happen, but it would be nice to see a sweet tri-airline livery (AF/KL/MP) on the 744s. Something like the old Star Alliance livery where they painted sections of what 6-7 airlines on one airframe.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 6019 posts, RR: 27 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5410 times:
This move makes only sense when Martinair markets the bellie capacities of both AFKL and as well. Plus, they must merge the GSA actuvities of Skyteam cargo. Lufthansa Cargo and their affiliates offer a doable blueprint for this,
Kole Feut un'n steiffen Wind gifft en krusen Büdel un' 'nen lütten Pint.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5362 times:
Some questions :
- How many cargo aircraft are operating at the moment for AF,KL and MP?
- How many are stored in the desert ?
- How many KL (AF) combi's are actual operating in combi configuration (7 pallet main deck).
- Is the 747-combi concept still valid in the present economic situation, or is it even preferred with low cargo volumes.
Talked about it in a meeting with Martinair execs just a few weeks ago. Can't go into the specifics as it was a meeting between my company and Martinair Cargo.
Also, the plan is at the unions (ondernemingsraad) for advise as it means that staff is to be moved to either KLM, Transavia or out of the company.
Val747 From France, joined Aug 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4850 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1): I believe that both the KL and the AF 744 freighter fleets will go to Martinair - will try to find the link I saw that mentioned this
Hi everyone,
AF is currently using 7 freighter, one beiing in China (Xianmeng) for check and apparently won't come back any time soon. and an other one is going out of the fleet for the winter, so it will only make 5 a/c, 3 744ERF, one two 777F. they will be used for routes with high demand and for west african routes.AF will use mainly pax a/c for the freight from now on.
KL will still use their combi (17 if i'm not mistaken), and the rest will go to MP (7MD11, 2747, plus the 2 KL747).
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 9): I know this is not likely to happen, but it would be nice to see a sweet tri-airline livery (AF/KL/MP) on the 744s.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4750 times:
According the fleet-listing of http://www.airlinerlist.com I count the following aircraft available for the AF/KL/MP combination.
AF:
5x B747-428ERF active
3x B747-428BCF stored
2x B777-28F active
2x B747-228F stored
KL:
2x B747-406ERF active
17x B747-406M active
MP:
2x B747-406ERF active (leased from KL)
4x B747-412BCF stored
7x MD11F active
Quoting Val747 (Reply 15): AF is currently using 7 freighter, one beiing in China (Xianmeng) for check and apparently won't come back any time soon. and an other one is going out of the fleet for the winter, so it will only make 5 a/c, 3 744ERF, one two 777F. they will be used for routes with high demand and for west african routes.AF will use mainly pax a/c for the freight from now on.
So if I understand correctly : One 747-428ERF will go out of the fleet or are you speaking about the XMN converted BCF-freighters ? Will all go to MP or will some stay with AF?
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2535 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4447 times:
Who will take over Martinair's passenger operations?
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 17): Who will take over Martinair's passenger operations?
As mentioned above, the passenger operations will be transferred to KLM and Transavia. However, some routes will also be axed.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7913 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4022 times:
Even though the move of MP turning into an all-cargo airline doesn't sound that far fetched I would like to see a official press release by AF/KL about this before saying it will happen prematurely.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 17757 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3699 times:
Quoting Euclid (Reply 22): Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 9):
Something like the old Star Alliance livery where they painted sections of what 6-7 airlines on one airframe.
Any photos of this anywhere? Would love to see that.
413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3560 times:
What will happen with these four (4) 747-412BCF aircraft, on long term lease from Guggenheim Aviation Partners?
All (PH-MPP,MPQ,MPR and MPS) are presently stored in the desert.
All 747 freighters of AFKL are GE powered, these ex.SQ aircraft are PW powered.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7913 posts, RR: 14 Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3636 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 25): All 747 freighters of AFKL are GE powered, these ex.SQ aircraft are PW powered.
Getting the GE-powered 744ERF's from KL Cargo actually "disrupts" the engine commonality as MP Cargo with their fleet currently is all-PW (744BCF's & MD11F's). I wonder what will happen to their MD11F fleet now that the GE-powered 744ERF are entering their fleet. Maybe a 777F will be ordered soon to replace their MD11F's?
413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2647 times:
I am sure Fedex would jump all over those 777 freighters. And I wonder if UPS would go for the -400BCFs?
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2527 times:
Quoting 413X3 (Reply 31): And I wonder if UPS would go for the -400BCFs?
Do you mean the three (3) stored 747-428BCF freighters of AF (CF6 powered), that would make sense.
The four (4) 747-412BCF (MP) freighters are PW powered at would not fit in the UPS fleet.
413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2451 times:
Doesn't UPS have some PW powered airplanes? I am sure they can train the technicians to service those too
FX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1302 posts, RR: 5 Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2375 times:
Quoting 413x3 (Reply 33): Doesn't UPS have some PW powered airplanes? I am sure they can train the technicians to service those too
Yeah they do, some 752's and MD11's, but it might be kind of costly to add just a couple of 744 BCF's to the fleet with PW power.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2216 times:
Quoting 413x3 (Reply 33): Doesn't UPS have some PW powered airplanes? I am sure they can train the technicians to service those too
It's not just training the technicians, when adding a new airframe engine combination to your existing fleet. You have to update all your documentation, additional training for your pilots, different T/O tables and different software for your FMS systems. May be you have to add that engine into the 747 simulator, so you have to buy additional simulator software, to satisfy the authorities.
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 34): Yeah they do, some 752's and MD11's, but it might be kind of costly to add just a couple of 744 BCF's to the fleet with PW power.
752 aircraft have PW2000 engines (2037,2037(M) or 2040), MP 747-412BCF are PW4056 powered.
MD11 and 747-412BCF are both PW4000 powered, but not interchangeable. (hard ware changes necessary, not only pin change on EEC.), MD11 is powered by PW 4460 or 4462 engines. Reconfiguration from 4056 to 4460/62 status and back is however possible.
413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2093 times:
Thanks for that info. it seems UPS grabs all the 747s they can and adds them to the fleet, while all that costs extra maybe they find it worthwhile in the end. The 747s seem to be constantly flying back and forth to Asia from the states
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