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OAG Changes 9/18/09:B6/CO/F9/FL/UA/WN  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 17 hours ago) and read 7504 times:

As usual this is versus what was for sale last week, not versus last year.

How to read:
AAA-BBB 6>5 NOV- means a reduction of one roundtrip from 6 to 5 in the selling schedule effective in November.
AAA-BBB CXLD 1>0 DEC means the service is canceled for December only.
AAA-BBB NEW 0>2 JAN-MAR means service has been added for the period of Jan to March where previously none was for sale.

Unfortunately the timing did not capture the AA change. Hopefully that will be in next week's report.

B6
BOS-BUF 2>3 JAN-
BOS-JFK 8>7 JAN-
BOS-PBI 4>5 FEB-
BOS-PIT 1>2 JAN-
BOS-RSW 4>5 FEB-
BOS-SJU 2>1 FEB-
BOS-TPA 2>3 FEB-
EWR-PBI 1>2 JAN-
EWR-RSW 1>2 JAN-
JFK-BUF 7>8 FEB-
JFK-FLL 10>9 FEB-
JFK-IAD 4>3 JAN-
JFK-MCO 8>9 FEB-
JFK-NAS 2>3 FEB-
JFK-OAK 3>2 JAN-
JFK-POP 2>1 FEB-
JFK-PWM 4>3 JAN-
JFK-RIC 3>2 JAN-
JFK-ROC 5>4 JAN-
LGB-SJC CXLD 3>0 JAN-
MCO-SJU 5>6 JAN-
MCO-SYR 1>2 FEB-

CO
EWR-YTM NEW 0>3/WK DEC-

F9
DEN-RSW NEW 0>4/WK NOV-
DEN-TPA 7/WK>10/WK NOV-

FL
EYW-MCO NEW 0>4/WK DEC-

UA
DEN-ICT 4>5 DEC-
DEN-LAS 7>6 DEC-FEB
DEN-OMA 5>6 JAN-FEB
DEN-PSP 4>5 FEB-MAR
DEN-RDM NOW ENDS FEB INSTEAD OF JAN
DEN-TUS 5>6 DEC-FEB

WN
DEN-BOS NEW 0>2 JAN-
DEN-GEG NEW 0>1 JAN-
DEN-RNO NEW 0>1 JAN-

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 16 hours ago) and read 7473 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
CO
EWR-YTM NEW 0>3/WK DEC-

This is a seasonal resumption.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (5 years 16 hours ago) and read 7449 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-PIT 1>2 JAN-

Good for PIT! Seems like B6 must be doing better there these days.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-RSW 4>5 FEB-

Wow! I would have never imagined this market to be so big! I wonder if B6 must be stimulating this market with its low fares?

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-SJU 2>1 FEB-

Conversely, I would think this sector would be more profitable, and perhaps underserved?

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-PBI 1>2 JAN-
EWR-RSW 1>2 JAN-

Nice to see some additions to EWR. After all, B6 is one of the largest airlines there, and with no WN (yet!) and competitor AirTran leaving, B6 may just become even more popular.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-IAD 4>3 JAN-

I would have thought that this sector would be more popular. After all, not everyone is traveling from Manhattan to D.C. proper and Arlington (LGA-DCA sector)...surely quite a few folks from Long Island might be headed to the booming Northern Virginia corridor (and vice versa)??

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-YTM NEW 0>3/WK DEC-

I believe CO has served Mont Tremblant seasonally in the past year or two, has it not?

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-RSW NEW 0>4/WK NOV-

I am sure this new route will do very well for F9. Nice to see the Republic ownership bringing the Frontier and Midwest networks back to their former glory.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
EYW-MCO NEW 0>4/WK DEC-

Sounds like AirTran will make a killing out of EYW.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-RDM NOW ENDS FEB INSTEAD OF JAN

Is this service seasonal? If so, sounds like it must be beating expectations!

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-BOS NEW 0>2 JAN-
DEN-GEG NEW 0>1 JAN-
DEN-RNO NEW 0>1 JAN-

Seems like WN is doing well from BOS, and nice to see the DEN growth continuing. This will sure make it much easier for GEG/RNO folks to head East and for everybody else to get to those cities!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 15 hours ago) and read 7192 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
I believe CO has served Mont Tremblant seasonally in the past year or two, has it not?

This will be the third season I believe.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 15 hours ago) and read 7188 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-PBI 1>2 JAN-
EWR-RSW 1>2 JAN-

Is that likely to be a seasonal upgrade?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlinePbiflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 hours ago) and read 6776 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
Is that likely to be a seasonal upgrade?

Normally PBI & RSW get 1 daily to EWR. 2 daily is a seasonal adjustment and has been the last couple of years.



PBI is South Florida's BEST airport!
User currently offlineCmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

Any word on SRQ for B6? I would like to see an increase, at this point I would like to see anything but a decrease.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 hours ago) and read 6605 times:



Quoting Cmhsrq (Reply 6):
Any word on SRQ for B6? I would like to see an increase, at this point I would like to see anything but a decrease.

I'd like them to expand there too, and add at least seasonal service to BOS.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineCotparampguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Any idea on when the extra F9 TPA flights will operate? Currently there is one everyday at 4.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6763 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 hours ago) and read 5684 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-RSW 4>5 FEB-

Wow! I would have never imagined this market to be so big! I wonder if B6 must be stimulating this market with its low fares?

The Red Sox have Spring Training in Ft. Myers, so there's typically a lot of traffic in February and March down to RSW from New England -- even more than one might expect with the normal winter/spring peak between mid-February and mid-April.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-FLL 10>9 FEB-

I'm actually a bit shocked to see a cut on JFK-FLL in February; this is a core market for B6.


User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4877 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
F9
DEN-RSW NEW 0>4/WK NOV-
DEN-TPA 7/WK>10/WK NOV-

The DEN-RSW flight is a restoration of service. They used to serve it daily during the winter and Saturday only during the summer. The DEN-TPA increase is also a partial restoration of seasonal service. They used to do this route 2x daily during the winter months and 1x daily during the summer months.

Quoting Cotparampguy (Reply 8):
Any idea on when the extra F9 TPA flights will operate? Currently there is one everyday at 4.

F9 360 Lv DEN 10:40 am MT Arr TPA 4:02 pm ET (Mon/Thu/Fri)
F9 359 Lv TPA 4:47 pm ET Arr DEN 6:49 pm MT (Mon/Thu/Fri)

I don't see the IND-CUN, STL-CUN, and MCI-CUN additions. Did I miss them? They announced they added 1x daily L4 service on DEN-BZN, DEN-DGO, and DEN-OKC along with a seasonal 1x daily on DEN-PDX, and the F9 website implies they added some DEN-MCO and DEN-FLL, too.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4833 times:

any More news if jetBlue starting DCA?


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4545 times:



Quoting F9fan (Reply 10):
DEN-DGO,

DRO, not DGO.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4410 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):

I would have thought that this sector would be more popular.

IAD-BOS is an odd market. FLYI was hourly I think, although probably losing their shirt. US also used to be hourly. B6 can only manage to make 3 rts work. IAD is back to its old habits of sucking for short/medium domestic.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):

I believe CO has served Mont Tremblant seasonally in the past year or two, has it not?

Perhaps, as noted I'm just reporting that it was not loaded for sale this season until this week.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
I am sure this new route will do very well for F9.

I think it did well last time, at least according to the route P/L that MobFlyer used to print. As I said somewhere else, either it was brilliant to start it or brilliant to stop it. Can't be both.  Smile

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):

Is that likely to be a seasonal upgrade?

B6 is not really that consistent in their seasonal frequency levels, particularly at JFK.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
I'm actually a bit shocked to see a cut on JFK-FLL in February; this is a core market for B6.

Case in point. B6 has been scaling back from the heady days when they ran hourly in peak to places like FLL. Reminds me of PEOPLExpress.

Quoting F9fan (Reply 10):
I don't see the IND-CUN, STL-CUN, and MCI-CUN additions. Did I miss them? They announced they added 1x daily L4 service on DEN-BZN, DEN-DGO, and DEN-OKC along with a seasonal 1x daily on DEN-PDX, and the F9 website implies they added some DEN-MCO and DEN-FLL, too.

I don't think that is loaded yet with OAG.

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 11):
any More news if jetBlue starting DCA?

The rumor I hear is that after the DL-US slot exchange deal is complete, B6 will buy the US Shuttle and move all their operations at LGA to the Marine Air Terminal. US will then drop some of these new goofy routes from DCA and use them to operate DCA-LGA around 6x per day.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

whats the update on the US-Delta Slot deal


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4083 times:



Quoting F9fan (Reply 10):
F9 website implies they added some DEN-MCO and DEN-FLL, too.

Those frequencies were loaded into OAG a few months ago, so that part of the announcement is just marketing.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3977 times:



Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 14):
whats the update on the US-Delta Slot deal

My understanding is that amazingly nobody has complained about it yet. One might wonder why not. I believe anticipated implementation is April for the schedule swap. Not sure about the construction part.


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3681 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 16):
My understanding is that amazingly nobody has complained about it yet. One might wonder why not.

Because everyone is probably working on some swaps of their own. probably a case of "if u don't object to mine, I won't object to yours". And I think they all realize that some logical adjustments to service benefit all.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3667 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 17):
Because everyone is probably working on some swaps of their own. probably a case of "if u don't object to mine, I won't object to yours".

I can't think of many swaps that would be as anticompetitive as DL-US. Certainly, what FL and CO did was not.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 3533 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I can't think of many swaps that would be as anticompetitive as DL-US. Certainly, what FL and CO did was not.

FL and CO was easy. A few slots here, and a few slots there. A mere blip on everyone's radar. Airlines drop flights (or even entire cities) from their networks fairly often, or go out of business altogether, releasing some frequencies/slots/terminal space at most airports every year or so. DL and US was a huge deal in comparison, but even then, you simply see another case of legacy airlines consolidating themselves at stronger hubs (yes, I'd say US will now have a "hub" at DCA, and the same for DL at LGA) in lieu of operating multiple (weaker, less profitable) focus cities. This seems to be the strategy across the board, at least for the legacies, so no surprise to see the others tacitly comply with such moves. No sensible need for UA to throw a fit over a bunch of DCA frequencies changing hands anyway...

As for my own thoughts, I'm sure there are many possibilities on the horizon...You have tons of mid-sized and large airports at full capacity that have one or two dominant airlines..BOS (B6 and WN may want to grow there), JFK (AA, DL, B6, and VX all want more there), LGA (AA, DL, and any LCCs probably want whatever they can get), EWR (CO, VX wants in too!), PHL (US is running out of room at its primary int'l gateway), DCA (we know B6 and WN would like to start flying out of this popular airport), ATL (DL and FL are both maxed out, right?), ORD (VX wants to start it, and AA/UA seem to have their own growth strategies...), SFO (VX and WN keep adding there), LAX (lots of major players!), SAN (never seems to be much breathing room there), not to mention coveted int'l rights such as NRT, GRU, LHR, etc....



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 3524 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 16):
Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 14):
whats the update on the US-Delta Slot deal

My understanding is that amazingly nobody has complained about it yet. One might wonder why not. I believe anticipated implementation is April for the schedule swap. Not sure about the construction part.

The docket hasn't opened to complaints, because nothing has been filed with DOT on the LGA swap.



a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 10 hours ago) and read 3358 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 19):
No sensible need for UA to throw a fit over a bunch of DCA frequencies changing hands anyway...

UA? Maybe not. But I could see AA and CO having something to say about it, and I also think that both B6 and WN could perhaps use it as leverage to get access to DCA.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 3318 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
But I could see AA and CO having something to say about it

CO gave away slots at DCA/LGA to FL, so I don't think they have that much interest.

AA has a good sized portfolio at both airports and I don't think they want more. In fact, I would argue AA has more slots than they really want, but won't give them up for fear they would fall into the hands of LCC's.

B6 and WN are the only two who might complain (technically so could FL, F9, NK, etc), but I don't think either can really stop the transaction from happening.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 3278 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):

CO gave away slots at DCA/LGA to FL, so I don't think they have that much interest.

AA has a good sized portfolio at both airports and I don't think they want more. In fact, I would argue AA has more slots than they really want, but won't give them up for fear they would fall into the hands of LCC's.

For CO and AA, it wouldn't be about wanting slots (neither one does). It would be about Delta getting bigger in New York - something that probably isn't good for either one of them.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 5 hours ago) and read 3165 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 17):
Because everyone is probably working on some swaps of their own. probably a case of "if u don't object to mine, I won't object to yours".

A lot of people think that, but exactly what does B6/WN have to gain by being quiet unless you are right and they are being offered a carrot to shut up. Perhaps the US Shuttle and Marine Air Terminal?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I can't think of many swaps that would be as anticompetitive as DL-US. Certainly, what FL and CO did was not.

On the surface I agree, but keep in mind that EWR is the most dominated slot controlled airport in America, so even making it the slightest bit worse is a big deal.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
The docket hasn't opened to complaints, because nothing has been filed with DOT on the LGA swap.

True, but usually the posturing starts before that and there has been silence.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
B6 and WN are the only two who might complain

Precisely...and why haven't they whined? That would likely result in them getting a few slots to shut up.


25 MAH4546 : Where would the complaints go? DL/US need to file their application. Without the application, which opens the docket, complaints can't be filed. And
26 Enilria : If you go back to the US-UA proposed merger which I would say is akin because of the WAS dominance cited in that deal, the other airlines began compl
27 Cubsrule : Sure, but how much market share shifted? Maybe one percent?
28 Enilria : Agreed, but it worsens an already really bad situation. If it were my decision I'd say CO cannot increase their control any further...period.
29 MAH4546 : A slot transaction is not akin to a mega-merger, the former which deals with the DOT, the latter with the DOJ.[Edited 2009-09-23 18:41:16]
30 Cubsrule : ...and that's a fair point. But is it worse for CO to get slightly more dominant at EWR or for US - which isn't quite as dominant to start with - to
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