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CO 764 Gear Collapse At EWR  
User currently offlineB6Contrails From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 9 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 34209 times:

A buddy of mine that works ramp near terminal A, said that there is a CO 764 with a gear collapse resting on its engine by the Fedex ramp, havent been out there to see it yet, any word on this?

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 33579 times:

Tell him we want pictures!


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User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 33222 times:

All I knowis that it was the outbound FRA flt. Aircraft swap and it left 4 hours late. I guess everyone is OK.

User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 33224 times:

Uh...what causes the gear to just plain collapse?


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User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 32785 times:
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A post in FlyterTalk's CO forum indicates that it was an axle failure durring taxi on Ship 51 which was operating CO50 to FRA last evening. PAX deplaned and continued on replacement aircraft, arriving 4 hours late.


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User currently offlineEwrw4co From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 32344 times:

Just been moved to the hanger.


Working Hard
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 32055 times:

How badly is the plane damaged? ETA as to when it will be back in service?


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User currently offlineNetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 31484 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
Uh...what causes the gear to just plain collapse?

Most common cause, pushing back with a gear pin (or pins) not in....


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 31201 times:
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Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
Uh...what causes the gear to just plain collapse?



Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 7):
Most common cause, pushing back with a gear pin (or pins) not in....

Usually component failure - especially if happened on taxi out and it was a main gear.

Towing without a pin (steering bypass) more often damages the towbar more then the aircraft.
CO uses mainly towbarless tractors so this would not be an issue.

Towing without gear pins is policy at some airlines. They only require them if they need to be installed for maintenance purposes.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 31105 times:



Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
Uh...what causes the gear to just plain collapse?

Another poster above said it was an axle failure, which is different than a full gear collapse. Hard to say which it really is since the info posted is a little contradictory. A 767 MLG has two axles and two tires, so if an axle (singular) failed, one would think the aircraft would stay relatively level (and no engine touching the ground), with the remaining axle/tires then carrying the weight of the failed axle. If both axles failed, that could be a different story, but a MLG collapse doesn't strike me as having much to do with the axles and instead would involve MLG actuators and other MLG hardware.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4737 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 30748 times:

Well, it can't have been that serious if the Aircraft departed 4 hours later.


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User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 30461 times:



Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):
Well, it can't have been that serious if the Aircraft departed 4 hours later.

They flew out on a different aircraft



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User currently offlineDeltajets From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 30245 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):

Another poster above said it was an axle failure, which is different than a full gear collapse. Hard to say which it really is since the info posted is a little contradictory. A 767 MLG has two axles and two tires, so if an axle (singular) failed, one would think the aircraft would stay relatively level (and no engine touching the ground), with the remaining axle/tires then carrying the weight of the failed axle. If both axles failed, that could be a different story, but a MLG collapse doesn't strike me as having much to do with the axles and instead would involve MLG actuators and other MLG hardware.

A 767-400 Main gear collapse would almost be physically impossible. The Retract actuator would not be able to retract the gear with the weight of the plane on it. I would be my money on a failure of some sort or maybe a side brace failure? Or the Drag brace?


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 30085 times:

Glad it happened on the ramp and not on the runway.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 1):
Tell him we want pictures!

Yeah!


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 30087 times:



Quoting Deltajets (Reply 12):
A 767-400 Main gear collapse would almost be physically impossible. The Retract actuator would not be able to retract the gear with the weight of the plane on it. I would be my money on a failure of some sort or maybe a side brace failure? Or the Drag brace?

The OP cited the info as having come from a ramp buddy, who characterized it as a gear collapse. Whether it was actually that, or an axle failure (as reported on that FT thread), I have no idea, just that a gear collapse and an axle failure don't seem to click as having to do with one another..

Who knows?


User currently offlineFLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 29026 times:



Quoting 7673mech (Reply 8):
Towing without a pin (steering bypass) more often damages the towbar more then the aircraft.
CO uses mainly towbarless tractors so this would not be an issue.

Not entirely true. The EWR tow team uses the "towbarless tractors" to reposition aircraft gate to gate, from the hangar, etc. Pushing back flights with pax are done with good ol' towbars and push tractors.



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User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15810 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 28890 times:



Quoting FLY2TUS (Reply 15):
The EWR tow team uses the "towbarless tractors" to reposition aircraft gate to gate, from the hangar, etc. Pushing back flights with pax are done with good ol' towbars and push tractors.

I've noticed this at many airports. The towbarless tractors are usually used only to reposition aircraft and almost all are pushed back with the tow bars and tugs. Do towbarless tractors take longer to detatch? Or is it just that airlines still have more of the old style tugs?



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User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28687 times:



Quoting FLY2TUS (Reply 15):
Quoting 7673mech (Reply 8):
Towing without a pin (steering bypass) more often damages the towbar more then the aircraft.
CO uses mainly towbarless tractors so this would not be an issue.

Not entirely true. The EWR tow team uses the "towbarless tractors" to reposition aircraft gate to gate, from the hangar, etc. Pushing back flights with pax are done with good ol' towbars and push tractors.

Correct.
NOCC uses towbarless tractors. A lot simpler process since they move a lot of planes.
We on the ramp push 'em with the good old fashioned towbars and tractors.
Ramp 101: "Rule of the bypass pin: First in - Last out"

I didn't see the aircraft in question, so it must have been already moved to the hangars.



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User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28362 times:



Quoting T5towbar (Reply 17):
Ramp 101: "Rule of the bypass pin: First in - Last out"

We work with 320's and 190's. with the 320 we are required to show the captain the bypass during our way off. With the 190 its a bypass switch and we give the captain a thumbs up. First thing I always do is as soon as that plane is blocked in, bypass goes on. Its a very easy thing to forget.



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User currently offlineFLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27308 times:

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 17):
I didn't see the aircraft in question, so it must have been already moved to the hangars.

I've been reading other places Ship 51 was towed to the hangar pretty quick last night. It sat on Taxiway D for a while.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Hans Schulze



[Edited 2009-09-18 18:16:24]


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User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4737 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 26527 times:



Quoting Deltajets (Reply 12):

A 767-400 Main gear collapse would almost be physically impossible. The Retract actuator would not be able to retract the gear with the weight of the plane on it. I would be my money on a failure of some sort or maybe a side brace failure? Or the Drag brace?

I think you have a much better idea of the problem.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 26043 times:

Can anyone tell me if i was on that plane....... I flew a CO 764 flt 50 EWR-FRA on 7/22/09 and CO51 FRA-EWR 8/3/09?? Any help would be appreciated

User currently offlineCruiseshipcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 207 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 25956 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 21):
Can anyone tell me if i was on that plane....... I flew a CO 764 flt 50 EWR-FRA on 7/22/09 and CO51 FRA-EWR 8/3/09?? Any help would be appreciated

Just because its the same flight doesn't mean its the same physical plane. I flew ship 51 once from EWR-HNL. They mix the birds up a lot.



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User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 25624 times:



Quoting Cruiseshipcrew (Reply 22):
ust because its the same flight doesn't mean its the same physical plane. I flew ship 51 once from EWR-HNL. They mix the birds up a lot.

I realize that i was just wondering if there was any chance it MIGHT have been the same plane that i was on for both of those flights


User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 24792 times:



Quoting Cruiseshipcrew (Reply 22):
Quoting EwRkId (Reply 21):
Can anyone tell me if i was on that plane....... I flew a CO 764 flt 50 EWR-FRA on 7/22/09 and CO51 FRA-EWR 8/3/09?? Any help would be appreciated

HNL is usually on a 764 from EWR, so you probably were, but who knows. Our widebodies are utilized very efficiently, so they get often repositioned quite a bit.



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
25 Georgebush : It can be a hydraulic failure, or a blown hose, no hydraulics no resistance.
26 WIGGAM : So when an airplanes engines are off, ie no hydraulic pressure the gear just collapses. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Clearly not.
27 A340Spotter : For your info, you weren't...50/22Jul was 057, 51/03Aug was 060. Regards JSD
28 HAWK21M : If locked in down position supported by tension springs as in most modern LGs.Unlikely unless overridden or not locked in the 1st place. regds MEL.
29 IAHcsr : Last I saw.. it was next status update on the 20th.. I suspect it will take longer then that to ship in a replacement axle.. if not the entire gear...
30 CALTECH : Bogey snapped in half, as of the latest. NTSB is investigating.
31 AA737-823 : You're joking, right? So, what happens each night when I turn the aircraft power off? Have my planes been falling on the ground while I wasn't lookin
32 Post contains links and images JetMech : Not too sure about this. I can't recall ever pushing back an aircraft with the gear pins in. If you left the steering pin out, wouldn't it be a major
33 CALTECH : Like others have said, the main gear cannot retract with the airplane on the ground even with hydraulics. The nose gear on the other hand. Believe the
34 Post contains links JetMech : Possibly, but with this tug at least, it appears that the nosegear itself pivots, thus, you would need to fit the bypass pin. http://www.youtube.com/
35 Caljn : So what were the sequence of events? Was it taxiing out for departure and just plopped down on it's engine? Must have been quite a shock for the passe
36 EwRkId : Thank you very much, hopefully they will get it up and running the 764 is a great plane and a pleasure to fly on!!!
37 FlyDeltaJets : Any time a 767 is towed a bypass pin must be installed to turn the steering hydralics off.
38 TristarSteve : I am sure that is the rule, but we tow planes without a steering pin. We normally use TBLs, and tow them with no power on the aircraft, so no hydraul
39 Post contains links and images Mbm3 : The Wandering Aramean, a blog written by a FlyerTalk moderator, got a pic of the aircraft while it was being towed to the hanger yesterday. Pretty int
40 A340Spotter : Caljn, the airplane never came to rest on it's engine. JSD
41 OPNLguy : I can understand why the truck cab is facing aft (insufficient clearance between fuselage and #1 engine), so that means if the tug was towing the air
42 Mbm3 : I am guessing that they tugged the aircraft backwards as it would have been much more difficult to turn it around. Plus, one has to imagine that the S
43 HAWK21M : A Bypass pin does not turn the hydraulics off but rather stops the flow by creating a bypass.The system pressure exists upstream of the valve. regds
44 Deltajets : So what are you going to do when the one time the plane gets loose from the tug and there is no brake pressure left in the Brake accumulator??
45 GRIVely : Not the aviation industry but you might be interested to know that when specialist teams are moving oil rigs from one location to another over distanc
46 A340Spotter : Based on the location that the photo was taken, this is facing towards Terminal A/UPS. The airplane was parked down near the end of runway 04L. Takin
47 Stratosphere : I have never used a TBL towbarless tractor but I assume it is pretty difficult for an a/c to get away from the tractor since it scoops up the nose ge
48 Lightsaber : I'm curious to see if any more information comes out. After examining gear, I'm shocked a jury strut would let go (thanks for the name JetMech... I mi
49 MSYPI7185 : The pin only acts to bypass hydraulic pressure to the nose gear. The brakes are on the MLG therefore there is no effect and the brakes can be applied
50 Post contains links and images Ocracoke : This is not the first time something similar to this has happened to a Boeing 767. View Large View MediumPhoto © Timo Soyke -[GSN]- View Large Vi
51 Deltajets : When "supertug" comes and scoops up any aircraft, It is policy for the APU to be running, the Hydraulics pressurized and the steering pin in, just in
52 Valkyrie01 : What if there is no one in the cockpit?????????
53 Deltajets : Then the Aircraft does not get towed.
54 Valkyrie01 : The supertug cab can be spin around.At the hangar when super tug comes to pick up an airplane.They would spin the cab around hook up to the airplane
55 Valkyrie01 : At airline i work for i never see anyone in the cockpit when supertug is towing the airplane.The supertug also supply power to the airplane.I know wh
56 T5towbar : Whenever I see a plane being towed by a supertug, no one is usually the cockpit. All supertugs have their own internal power that they supply to the
57 DocLightning : How do you define "collapse"? Inadvertant retraction?
58 Pellegrine : It'd be interesting to know if there was corrosion? I've read before that a lot of high tensile strength steel alloys (such as those used in landing g
59 HAWK21M : Not needed for TBL towing but needed to monitor brakes on Tow bar towing. regds MEL.
60 Valkyrie01 : Where did i mention anything about tow bar towing? I said supertug (TBL)
61 Deltajets : Exactly. A retraction as in the handle was put in the up position. The weight of the plane would keep the gear from comming up.
62 Ewrw4co : It was moved about 1400 the next day.
63 Ewrw4co : The ac moved backwards all the way to the hanger. Truck moved forward.
64 474218 : The main landing gear (MLG) can not be retracted on the ground. The retract actuator just does not have the power to overcome the friction of the tir
65 Deltajets : Well said. My guess would be the truck beam. Has this aircraft had a gear change yet?? They happen every 10 years.
66 Lightsaber : Thanks. We do not have any of the 'supertugs.' It could also be the failure of the schrader valve that kept the gear filled with nitrogen. Yea... I k
67 474218 : A failed schrader valve would cause the loss of the nitrogen (air) charge but the oil charge would remain so the cylinder would not completely bottom
68 Deltajets : Would that be considered a Gear collapse? I just find it hard to believe that if the axle or truck beam broke that they got the plane back to the han
69 DocLightning : OK, so that explains the aviation confusion. In popular English, a "collapse" is when something falls down goes boom. In aviation, apparently there i
70 Lightsaber : Something is missing here... I have not seen enough to be sure it was a full 'gear collapse.' From reading this thread and looking at the photo Mbm l
71 474218 : If it was as simple as a schrader valve failure there would have been no reason for the flat bed truck to support the left side of the aircraft. With
72 Deltajets : I have also heard of the o rings in the piston on the struts failing before. So there is another theory added to the scenario. We get strut repacks a
73 474218 : Landing gear come with spare seals in the lower bearing of the strut. These spare seals can be repositioned to correct leaks between gear overhauls.
74 Deltajets : Its always fun to repack them, and even more fun to tighten the gland nut.
75 SEPilot : This would be no problem with a straight truck; with a tractor trailer it is much more difficult. Towing an aircraft with one main gear on a tractor
76 CALTECH : The truck snapped between one of the axles and strut is the story, have some pictures. It broke/ snapped all the way through, would account for the ai
77 Deltajets : Once the nitrogen is gone. the weight of the plane would push most of the fluid out of the strut. Does anyone have an idea if this a/c was scheduled
78 Traindoc : Despite the inconvenience to the pax, having the MLG fail on the taxiway is a good problem to have. Having the MLG fail upon landing in FRA could have
79 CALTECH : Well no, the strut is serviced with fluid first, and with no nitrogen, it is bottomed out (flat) and the weight of the airplane does not push the flu
80 7673mech : Very true the strut is serviced in a compressed (down state) and inflates with nitrogen. However when you have a sudden loss of nitrogen - the fluid
81 Deltajets : I stand corrected. You are absolutely right. But many times i have seen fluid spew out as nitrogen is trying to escape quickly. Im still curious if t
82 CALPSAFltSkeds : CALTECH, can you post the photos and does anyone have an estimate of when ship 051 will be back in service? Deltajets, according to AirFleets, both DL
83 DiegoDangers : I am not so sure about the Douglass that that CO uses, I can speak to their mechanics tomorrow and ask, but on the TLDs that we have, the cradle rais
84 Deltajets : Thanks for the information. I am just trying to figure out if that partiular ship has had a Triple gear change yet.
85 IAHcsr : The TechOps page now listed Ship 051 as 'Parts + 16 hours' .. Thus begging the question of just when the 'parts' will arrive....
86 Valkyrie01 : What about the ferry flight to HKG to get the gears change?
87 IAHcsr : Ship 051 is still Out of Service, status posted as 'INFO' on 29 Sept.
88 Deltajets : The 767 had a main landing gear bogie beam crack in half due to corrosion, we got an email about it today!
89 Boeing767mech : We had a 757 do that also about 6 months ago in South AAmerica, was interesting getting all the tooling shipped down to the airplane. David
90 Justloveplanes : Is this the same as an axle? there are 4 of them on a 767, so this was one? these planes aren't that old... bad metallurgy? bad inspection? Are these
91 CAL764 : I'm surprised at what little information their is about this occurrence..because something of this magnitude doesn't happen every day!
92 Post contains links and images 474218 : The truck (boogie) beam is located at the bottom on the landing gear cylinder and allows the truck to tilt, the axles run through the truck beam. In
93 Deltajets : The gear, to my understanding, had about 1-2 years left in service before requiring an overhaul. There are drain paths in the truck beams that should
94 DocLightning : OK, now if a physician used that exact same sentence, I'd cringe.
95 HAWK21M : Any details. regds MEL.
96 ADXMatt : A/C 051 has been released by maint. It will be flying today EWR-HNL-HKG as it was previously scheduled to go into a heavy check.
97 IAHcsr : CO3171 is just under an hour from HNL at this time...
98 Post contains links and images CALTECH : Here are some pictures,......
99 Post contains images MX757 : Here's some more pictures.
100 474218 : Pictures?
101 MX757 : WTF??? They were there earlier! CALTECH: I think the GTR's got me!!!!
102 Post contains links and images CALTECH : And you say I was smoking crack. Have some more, but those two were the best.
103 Post contains links SP90 : The NTSB report, not much in it yet. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20090921X73211&key=1
104 474218 : Good example why you should keep the drain holes clear.
105 HAWK21M : Thanks for the Pics. Amazing. regds MEL.
106 IAHcsr : I think it a safe bet that will be much higher on the list of things to do from now on ...
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