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Mesa - "We're Not Approved For 'airplane Mode' "  
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13594 posts, RR: 61
Posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15159 times:
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Flying PHX-AUS earlier this month I was surprised to get admonished by a Mesa Airlines flight attendant for watching a movie on my Blackberry. "We're not approved for airplane mode," she said.

I asked why, since the same device was apparently okay to use on other carriers and other aircraft.

"Sir, you just need to comply," she curtly said.

Turning off my Blackberry, I watched as she went up the aisle telling other Blackberry and iPhone users the same thing. She even told someone using an iPod Touch to turn that off, too.

Asking a crewmember about this on my return flight, they said it was the focus of a recent recurrent training class.


Anyone else run into this with Mesa?


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15090 times:

I have never flown MESA but the same policy applies to QFLink flights,
Mobile devices may be operated on mainline jet flights in the air in flight mode, however they are not permitted to be used at any stage on Dash-8 services regardless of in-flight mode capabilities. Perhaps further investigation has not been conducted by the airlines themselves in regard to the effects they may have?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13594 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15054 times:
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Not sure if this policy is unique to the CRJ-900, but having flown QX many times on the CRJ-700 use of electronic devices in airplane mode has never been a problem.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineKstatepilot From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15039 times:

As a pilot for YV, I can tell you that this is not the case. The FA was incorrect. If you can tell me what date and flight number I will gladly find out why the FA said this.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13594 posts, RR: 61
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15004 times:
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Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 3):
As a pilot for YV, I can tell you that this is not the case. The FA was incorrect. If you can tell me what date and flight number I will gladly find out why the FA said this.

I appreciate the willingness to check into this - 2888/03SEPPHXAUS was the outbound, with the return being 2838/06SEPAUSPHX.

Again, it's worth noting that when questioned about this on the return (at the gate), one flight attendant said she'd never heard of such a thing but another crewmember on the same flight quickly corrected her, saying it was recently a focus of inflight recurrent training.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAviators99 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14985 times:

This would have made me pretty angry. The FA had no problem with laptops, but a problem with iPod Touches?

I'm glad it was on relatively short flight...


User currently offlineKstatepilot From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14966 times:

No problem. I do know that alot of people at YV do not care about the pax, but I try to take care of them! I will get an email out today about this, but obviously won't get a reply untill tomorrow at the earliest!

User currently offlineNW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14951 times:

Its a simple matter of company/inflight department policy. The FA's at my company have the same policy: "Airplane Mode" is not acceptable. The basis of this rule is that the FA cannot tell if the user is actually using airplane mode or is just lying about it. The FA's have to comply with the policies found in their manuals, so just do what they say. Is it stupid? Yes. But failure to comply with a crewmember instruction is a clearcut violation of FAR's. They are in charge of the cabin so just do as they ask.

User currently offlineAviators99 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14856 times:



Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 7):
Its a simple matter of company/inflight department policy. The FA's at my company have the same policy: "Airplane Mode" is not acceptable. The basis of this rule is that the FA cannot tell if the user is actually using airplane mode or is just lying about it.

And somehow they can tell if WiFi or Bluetooth is activated on laptops?


User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14811 times:



Quoting Aviators99 (Reply 8):
And somehow they can tell if WiFi or Bluetooth is activated on laptops?

Reminds me of the half thought out policy of hands free driving. So you can't use a cell phone in your hand, but eating, using a gps, or anything else that takes up your hand is OK.


User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14786 times:

maybe a new FA or something, it's hard to live without this stuff once you get it

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19693 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14736 times:



Quoting 413x3 (Reply 9):

Reminds me of the half thought out policy of hands free driving. So you can't use a cell phone in your hand, but eating, using a gps, or anything else that takes up your hand is OK.

Yeah, but there's something about a cell phone that makes people extra stupid. I don't know why or how, but we've all seen it. I was actually hit (lightly, thank goodness) by a driver on a cell phone while I was walking on the sidewalk once. He pulled right out of a driveway and didn't see me walking in front of him. I wound up sprawled out on his hood (on purpose; his bumper was heading straight for my knees), but uninjured.


User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14667 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
I was actually hit (lightly, thank goodness) by a driver on a cell phone while I was walking on the sidewalk once. He pulled right out of a driveway and didn't see me walking in front of him. I wound up sprawled out on his hood (on purpose; his bumper was heading straight for my knees), but uninjured.

Off-topic, but I've got to ask: Having hit you with his car while talking on his cell phone, did the driver immediately drop his phone and get out to see if you were okay or did he keep right on talking?



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13594 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14569 times:
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Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 7):
The FA's have to comply with the policies found in their manuals, so just do what they say.

The FA confused my question with an unwillingness to comply, and immediately took an attitude with me. Being in the industry for 20 years, I'm well aware of the need to comply with crewmember instructions and was doing so while asking my question about the difference between YV and other carriers in regard to airplane mode.

And no, I was not snarky or sarcastic in any way.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14258 times:



Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 7):
But failure to comply with a crewmember instruction is a clearcut violation of FAR's. They are in charge of the cabin so just do as they ask.

This can go too far. What if they tell you to do something that's dangerous? What if they're blatantly wrong about what they think a passenger is doing? I once saw a Horizon FA tell a passenger he would report the passenger to the pilot if the passenger didn't turn of his Blackberry. The passenger had put it in his pocket, didn't recall if he had turned it off, took it out to check, realized it was on, and turned it off. The FA claimed he saw the passenger using the Blackberry. The passenger tried to explain that he was turning it off...like a pc, it takes a few seconds to turn off after you hold down the button. The FA wouldn't listen and basically said "I saw you using it." Clearly, the FA was incorrect about what was going on. What if a FA draws an incorrect conclusion about something very serious, that ends up with somebody arrested?

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 6):
No problem. I do know that alot of people at YV do not care about the pax, but I try to take care of them! I will get an email out today about this, but obviously won't get a reply untill tomorrow at the earliest!

Did anything come of this query?


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14168 times:



Quoting Cschleic (Reply 14):
Did anything come of this query?

It hasn't even been 3 hours. Why don't you give it a little more time...



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14111 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Anyone else run into this with Mesa?

This happened to me also

Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 3):
As a pilot for YV, I can tell you that this is not the case. The FA was incorrect. If you can tell me what date and flight number I will gladly find out why the FA said this.

This happened to me on 4 AUG 09, COS-ORD Flt. 7176, she told me that I could not use my phone to listen to my music, and when I asked why she just said 'it is our regulations' and on the exact same type on OO you can use your phones in Airplane Mode.

The Crew was ORD based I do not know if the management there is telling them something else.

@Kstatepilot if you find anything out about this please let me know.



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5271 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14057 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
I asked why, since the same device was apparently okay to use on other carriers and other aircraft.

"Sir, you just need to comply," she curtly said.

Jeez. How difficult would it have been for her to say something along the lines of it being company policy or that she wasn't sure and she was sorry for the inconvience?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21528 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13951 times:

It'll be interesting to see if airlines with new pay per use PTVs start creating such rules for our safety. Can't accuse Mesa of that, they simply don't trust customers and would rather punish all customers than police the few who don't comply.

And the silly part of that is that I would venture there are a dozen women per flight who put their phone in their purse well before boarding but forgot to turn it off, as well as a dozen men who did as one pax above did, and that's forgot to turn it off until well after takeoff.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13864 times:

It's the same story on my plane. The aircraft I fly (Q400) really isn't approved for airplane mode.

I'm betting it's a paperwork issue, but right now the point is to save money not spend it, so I doubt this will change anytime soon. Sorry.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineCschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13757 times:



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 15):
It hasn't even been 3 hours. Why don't you give it a little more time...

My mistake...had the date wrong.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21528 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13622 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 19):
The aircraft I fly (Q400) really isn't approved for airplane mode.

Is it approved for laptop use?

"Airplane Mode" is radio off mode, meaning it transmits no more interference than a computer, likely less (as it's lower frequency and less powerful). So do they not allow for the use of any electronic devices on the Q400 for your airline?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13352 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
Is it approved for laptop use?

"Airplane Mode" is radio off mode, meaning it transmits no more interference than a computer, likely less (as it's lower frequency and less powerful). So do they not allow for the use of any electronic devices on the Q400 for your airline?

Yes, laptops and "approved" electronic devices are allowed. Just no airplane mode or cell phone use at any time when the door is closed.

Doesn't make sense? Welcome to the wonderful world of government regulation.

Checko

[Edited 2009-09-20 20:57:43]


"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6028 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13322 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 22):
Yes, laptops and "approved" electronic devices are allowed. Just no airplane mode or cell phone use at any time when the door is closed.

I wonder if that means I can use bluetooth, since it's so low in power.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineMeristem From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13139 times:



Quoting 413x3 (Reply 9):
Reminds me of the half thought out policy of hands free driving. So you can't use a cell phone in your hand, but eating, using a gps, or anything else that takes up your hand is OK.

Off topic, but answering the above: Hands free does not quite solve the problem. It avoids, in theory, holding the phone, dialing, and texting. Emphasis on theory here, as most people do not use a voice enabled hands free system and thus still stop looking ahead of them to dial (or to find the phone, etc).

The context change between 'talking' and 'driving' takes cognitive brain cycles. In fact when talking on hands free humans generally are neither driving nor talking well. Talking with someone in the car seems to not be so bad because driver and passenger are watching the traffic and can indicate a problem ahead.

Switching contexts penalizes us humans everywhere, including in a flight deck. Hence more attention being paid to ergonomics, field of vision, checklist design, etc.



Curiosity killed that cat. I still have some lives left.
25 Deltaflyertoo : Well from the way it sounds, you didn't comply and challenged the request, isnt that, in our culture no matter how nice you asked, with your BB still
26 Maverick623 : One of my good friends (a YV FA) tells me he has to tell people all the time that "airplane mode" is not allowed per YV's certificate, the reason bei
27 PlanesNTrains : I'm not sure if you read his clarification, but if you are saying that ANY question of clarity is impermissible on board an aircraft, I think that is
28 777ER : When I flew Mesa earlier this month from DTW-ORD no announcement about not being approved was made. I've never encounted any announcement on NZ Link w
29 ASAFA : I was told this also by a Lynx FA. They said that they are not approved for airplane mode and it was a specific issue with interference that was uniq
30 EA CO AS : And yet at QX - one of the world's largest Q400 operators - airplane mode for smartphones and similar devices isn't an issue. The moment she asked, I
31 HAMAD : why can't it be the other way around? would it have hurt the flight attendant to be polite from her side and say : "Sir, I am sorry, but it is FAA re
32 Pellegrine : Funny, I've had a Mesa F/A tell me the EXACT SAME THING about an iPod no less. I was like oh my god under my breath and did a few . Of course I put th
33 Bwaflyer : Same on bmi - no flight mode is allowed on any aircraft apart from Black Berry devices.
34 TomFoolery : All aspects of the procedures are subject to review by the regulators. Despite an initial approval for procedural amendments (like airplane mode on mo
35 Vhqpa : Really? I've never been told this on a Qlink flight (Dash or 717) The only airline I've ever heard an announcement that flight mode is not to be used
36 Cschleic : No, it's not. That's the point of all the thread posts. It's how the carriers handle it and apply the policies inconsistently. Apparently so, and tha
37 YULWinterSkies : Please don't use this occasion to bash governments. If there was ONLY government policies which were not 100% logical, this world would not be as bad
38 TomFoolery : Keep in mind that it is not the airlines that approve the device, rather it is the airlines who simply need to ensure that there is a procedure in pl
39 PolymerPlane : Did these happen before take off? You are supposed to turn off all electronic devices after the door closes and before reacing 10,000 ft. I have seen
40 Larshjort : On a recent Ryanair flight they announced that all cellphones should be on airlplane mode and Iphones and Blackberries should be switched off. When re
41 TheGreatChecko : Do I think it makes any sense? No. But like I said, there is an approval process that probably involves buying an expensive study from Bombardier. We
42 Kinglobjaw : Had the same announcement on my LAS-PHX US2817 (MESA CR9) on SEP 5, 2009. Funny thing is, with my Treo 800w when you turn it off, it goes to in flight
43 Chumley : I had this happen on a recent flight on WN. (Obviously a 737). 9/4/09, WN647 PHX-ONT. FA announced on the PA during pre-flight announcement that all e
44 Part147 : Hmmm, this is a interesting thread and one that I can't help but throw in my I don't have a problem with staff reminding me to turn off my phone on oc
45 RwSEA : These FAs (or whoever is instructing them) sound like idiots to me. If iPhones, Blackberrys, etc. truly presented a danger, they wouldn't be allowed t
46 Post contains links TheGreatChecko : During T/O and Landing, everything must be turned off. You put too much faith in the security theater that is the TSA. They screw up enough just tryin
47 Nws2002 : They are thinking they would like to keep their job and avoid a personal fine from the FAA. They don't make the rules, just enforce them.
48 NorCal : I've accidentally left my cell phone on while operating a flight and I've never noticed any bad things happen to the avionics. Occasionally I've had a
49 Deltaflyertoo : Sporting event yes, at 30,000 feet, umm no. Safety is the highest priority. And the way I understand it, yes, flying is highly dicatorial as you put
50 DiamondFlyer : I've flown some light planes (GA), where I forget to turn my phone off. People text/call me and I didn't notice. Fast forward to this weekend, and I
51 Kstatepilot : I would love to say that our flight attendants actually think this far into things, but they don't I emailed the CP and he got back to me this mornin
52 Smi0006 : [ For sure on the Dash-8 unless it has changed recently ( I was crew there , I can't say I have any idea about the 717s. For the simple reason that To
53 EA CO AS : I haven't? What part of... ...was confusing to you? Again, the moment she asked, I immediately removed the earbuds, shut off the movie and powered my
54 Dl767captain : I had this happen to me, in one of the documents in the seat (an inflight magazine or safety card or something) I showed her that phones etc in airpla
55 Live2fly83 : F/As should be better versed concerning electronics in this day and age an IPod touch doesnt transmit personally I just opt for B6,DL, or VX flights
56 Hiloboy1 : Had the same thing happen with Go!; my calendar reminder went off (on airplane mode) and the FA as nasty as she could told me to turn it off, when I s
57 Smi0006 : Forgive me I'm no techno wize, but how does one tell the difference between an Ipod touch and Iphone? Whilst I like the idea you could ask I have see
58 PlanesNTrains : Uh... I'm not sure if you want his blood as well, but it seems he's adequately explained everything. -Dave
59 Floridaflyboy : At Mesaba, when I first started, we were told the same thing, that Mesaba hadn't filed the correct paperwork yet in order to allow airplane mode. We
60 N702ML : As I said in another thread..... I fly for Southwest. After airplane mode was introduced and permitted on other airlines (including other 737-operati
61 Airport : He clarified, and even if he didn't, you jump to the conclusion that he was being defiant? People pay good money to be on that aircraft, and without
62 Fabo : You are mixing up security with safety. So conclusion: 1. Some airlines do allow airplane mode, others dont 2. This has to do with paperwork (as does
63 TheGreatChecko : Exactly. However, it's usually not the airline that preventing these changes, it's the FAA. To me, if it works on one airframe, it should work on all
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