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SQ ULH Flights EWR/LAX-SIN.. How Are They Doing?  
User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16268 times:

Hi
With reference to the SIA A345 flights out of LAX and EWR, I was wondering how they are doing. Well, I was on the EWR-SIN flight on Sept 10, and it was oversold. They were trying to convince 5 volunteers in return for the next day's flight plus $400 cash plus $100 KrisShop vouchers. I just wished I could have changed the date!!

On the same day, my girlfriend was on LAX-SIN and she reported that flight was barely 60% full. I just returned on Sep 20 SIN-LAX, and there were 47 out of 100 seats occupied.

So how are they doing? They must be carrying some belly cargo with such light load!!!

Any comments would be welcome.

Thx.

MP

PS: The service was impeccable as usual on what you have become to expect from SIA.

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8659 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15987 times:

I'd be surprised if there's any significant cargo on those flights. California has taken a far greater hit in this recession than the Northeast and NYC area, which probably explain the difference in load. You also have far more options to Asia, out of LAX than you do out of NYC.

User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15859 times:

Dad just got off SQ 37 this morning. He said it was 85% full.

User currently offlineCaleb1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15416 times:
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SQ37 from where to where?

User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2017 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15395 times:
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Quoting Caleb1 (Reply 3):
SQ37 from where to where?

SQ37 = LAX to SIN.

SQ37/38 seem to be doing OK.

SQ21/22 (EWR/SIN/EWR) are hurting according to my SQ sales rep.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15292 times:

Niether are star preformers from what Ive heard. I was told that SQ makes more off the one-stop routings than they do off of the ULH flights (including cargo and passenger revenue).


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21866 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15263 times:



Quoting Mptpa (Thread starter):
They were trying to convince 5 volunteers in return for the next day's flight plus $400 cash plus $100 KrisShop vouchers.

For an all-business service, that doesn't seem like a lot of compensation to me. Is this normal?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14909 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Niether are star preformers from what Ive heard.

They are so long and expensive to run, with so much competition in between the end points, and not enough of a local market, that it's almost guaranteed to be rough.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14828 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
They are so long and expensive to run, with so much competition in between the end points, and not enough of a local market, that it's almost guaranteed to be rough.

They both have lasted for longer than anyone ever expected I think....I think it shows alot that that they are still holding on to them...If SQ dropped EWR-SIN, would they pull out of EWR completely? Or do a one-stop deal like with JFK??


User currently offlineLxmd11 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14642 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 8):

I really hope they don't pull out i really want to take it in early-mid 2010. We are planning on going to australia and connecting in SIN.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14608 times:

Perhaps with CO entering Star, CO can provide some feed into/out of EWR.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14521 times:



Quoting TWFirst (Reply 10):
Perhaps with CO entering Star, CO can provide some feed into/out of EWR.

Thats what I was thinking but then again you can only feed a flight so much


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8659 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14321 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
I was told that SQ makes more off the one-stop routings than they do off of the ULH flights (including cargo and passenger revenue).

I would take that with a very large grain of salt. The EWR-SIN non-stop route replaced the EWR-AMS-SIN. SQ could easily bring that one back but they chose to stick with the non-stop instead. Clearly there's money to be made on the non-stop. A lot of people also thought that SQ would start LHR-NYC after they received permission to fly that route, and that hasn't materialized and probably never will.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13991 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Quoting Mptpa (Thread starter):
They were trying to convince 5 volunteers in return for the next day's flight plus $400 cash plus $100 KrisShop vouchers.

For an all-business service, that doesn't seem like a lot of compensation to me. Is this normal?

On a flight of that distance to/from an EU airport (anything over 3500 km. 2175 mi.) the denied boarding compensation required under EU legislation is EUR 600 (approximately USD 880) plus hotel accommodation and meals if the next flight wasn't until the next day, unless the passenger was willing to accept some other offer voluntarily (e.g. free/discounted ticket for a future flight etc.)

For flights under 1500 km. (932 mi.). it's EUR 250 (approx.USD 370), and from 1500 to 3500 km. it's EUR 400 (approx. USD 590). That's why most low cost carriers in Europe either don't overbook at all or do it very carefully, as the denied boarding compensation required under EU legislation will often be much higher than the passenger's fare.


User currently offlineSpr773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13839 times:

well considering SQ's sense of business , if the LAX / EWR direct from SIN were not profitable they would have scrapped them a long time back.
I think the data we have is random samples, there are some days even when the most profitable routes are not doing so good and the load is less. There are so many factors at work. Statistically maybe a data for a month would be helpful (not accounting for the holiday season that is  Smile )


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8659 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11967 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
That's why most low cost carriers in Europe either don't overbook at all or do it very carefully, as the denied boarding compensation required under EU legislation will often be much higher than the passenger's fare.

Unfortunately such customer protection doesn't exist in this country so airlines are able to rob their customers blind. It's one reason I always favor European carriers when traveling TATL, because EU legislation applies to them even when flying from the US to Europe. I once bought a $400 ticket on LH to fly BOS-FRA, and when the flight was oversold I was offered EUR 600 to fly the next day. That was the best deal I've ever had  Smile


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11502 times:



Quoting Spr773 (Reply 14):
if the LAX / EWR direct from SIN were not profitable they would have scrapped them a long time back.

Maybe, or the money lost operating the routes is less than they'd lose trying to sell the 345s  duck 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAsianguy767 From Singapore, joined Oct 2003, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11387 times:

Generally, the EWR flts are healthier, there's even talk of reinstating frequency to 6 per week and hoepfully daily by next year. LAX is a very different story however, loads are as poor as 40 below some days...

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11384 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
I would take that with a very large grain of salt. The EWR-SIN non-stop route replaced the EWR-AMS-SIN. SQ could easily bring that one back but they chose to stick with the non-stop instead. Clearly there's money to be made on the non-stop. A lot of people also thought that SQ would start LHR-NYC after they received permission to fly that route, and that hasn't materialized and probably never will.

I never said there were awful preformers, but Ive heard over and over that the one-stop flights bring more money in because:

1) No cargo capacity on a flight that long
2) Flights that long are super expensive to operate.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11277 times:

When they went all J it was doing amazing, but then the economic recession hit and the rest is history...

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8659 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11155 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
I never said there were awful preformers, but Ive heard over and over that the one-stop flights bring more money in because:

And I never said that you said they were awful performers  Smile
I simply stated that is the one-stop flights were really that much better, there's nothing stopping SQ from re-instating the 1 stop over the non-stop, but they obviously chose against that.


User currently offlineYyzflyboy From Canada, joined May 2007, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11113 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):

I don't think SQ will want to step on CO's toes if SQ were to reinstate the 1-stop flight from EWR. Maybe a codeshare with CO will work?


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11079 times:



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 19):
When they went all J it was doing amazing, but then the economic recession hit and the rest is history...

I find that hard to believe, seeing as J capacity in either market pretty much doubled overnight



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1117 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10949 times:

Quoting PA110 (Reply 4):
SQ37/38 seem to be doing OK.

SQ21/22 (EWR/SIN/EWR) are hurting according to my SQ sales rep.



Quoting Asianguy767 (Reply 17):
Generally, the EWR flts are healthier, there's even talk of reinstating frequency to 6 per week and hoepfully daily by next year. LAX is a very different story however, loads are as poor as 40 below some days...

Without actual statistics, we often have to make do with conflicting information like the above! 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
They are so long and expensive to run, with so much competition in between the end points, and not enough of a local market, that it's almost guaranteed to be rough.

Rather pessimistic, I would say. If we are to assume that the flights are expensive, they also bring in amongst the highest yields assuming all seats taken up. 100 J seats is no joke. Yes there is plenty of competition, hence the need to differentiate from the market and provide the fastest, most convenient possible connection between SIN and the US. As for insufficient local market, clearly, SQ's flights are not heavily dependent on local traffic. The routes are fed by transit traffic from Southeast Asia, South Asia, and even from Oceania as seen above! 

[Edited 2009-09-22 09:06:59]


It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10898 times:



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 23):
SQ's flights are not heavily dependent on local traffic. The routes are fed by transit traffic from Southeast Asia, South Asia, and even from Oceania as seen above!

That puts them back in competition with all sorts of one stop options, again reducing the fare.

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 23):
If we are to assume that the flights are expensive

That's a heck of an assumption... You can pretty much buy a walk up around $3000 each way all in.

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 23):
assuming all seats taken up.

They've been averaging about 60%



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Airbazar : You can say the same about every A380 route and they're not exactly parking those As far as the EWR/LAX non-stop flights, my understanding is that th
26 MaverickM11 : Not quite, the 380 has about 20% more J seats than the 744, whereas the 345 has 100% more J seats
27 Huaiwei : You fail to understand. I mentioned SQ's customer base for this route is from Southeast Asia/South Asia onwards to the US via SIN. Before the ULH fli
28 MaverickM11 : I guess, but the other carriers have the advantage of not having to buy/operate ULH equipment and spend money carrying fuel halfway around the world.
29 Airbazar : That's a flawed calculation. The JFK and EWR markets overlap and are probably one and the same for SQ. If you include the JFK flight in your calculat
30 Huaiwei : Meanwhile, SQ has the advantage of charging premium fares and the privilege to market its flights as the world's longest, contributing to the public
31 Avek00 : 1. CO and SQ have not sought codesharing authority. 2. CO has no incentive to cooperate further with SQ until the Star TPAC JV begins, and assuming S
32 Dennys : for the time being , it is always better to sell 50 per cent of the A345s seats on high revenue base , rather than a full Y class filled with market f
33 Asiaflyer : Correct. And for the SIN-LAX route, SQ discontinued SIN-TPE-LAX which reduced the number of SQ J-seats at that time as well. Sorry, but I don't follo
34 Airbazar : There are other factors such, losing potential customers to other carriers, and Singapore's unique geographic location. No one made similar accusatio
35 MaverickM11 : Not at all. I said the 345 has 100% more J seats than the 744 and indeed it does. They went from a dailyi FRAJFK 744 and a 4 weekly AMSEWR 744 (about
36 BOS2LAF : Singapore doesn't seem to give much of a rats about the Star Alliance, so I don't think they'll lose any sleep about potentially stepping on anyone's
37 Airbazar : Again, you're twisting the numbers to suite your argument EWR-SIN is not daily either. And you can't completely ignore F class on the 744 because the
38 MaverickM11 : F is a totally different animal from J, and the 345 only has J seats. It may be good, but it's not that good. Which everyone else competes on.... The
39 Mptpa : In the hay days (ie pre 2008 meltdown), the fare on EWR-SIN was about $8500 incl of taxes. Now one can get this for mium carrier charges higher price
40 Avek00 : CO and UA will be cooperating on flights to Singapore, competing with SQ.
41 United1 : If only that were true....I can't stand SQs new J class seat. The soft product is great, except for the robots, but the seat if the most uncomfortabl
42 Asiaflyer : UA has been flying to Singapore for many years, competing with SQ, so nothing new there. If CO starts codesharing with UA or even decide to fly their
43 Avek00 : I expect the changing competitive landscape in longhaul travel to result in changes to SQ's business model. To the point, I expect that while CO/UA a
44 NewYorkCityBoi : I think this flight is mostly for O&D market. If passengers were to do one stop why don't they stop somewhere else that is closer to Asia. Well maybe
45 Airbazar : SQ was competitive without these 2 routes and will be competitive if they ever go away. The list of unprofitable routes dropped by SQ over the years
46 NoMoreRJs : Not sure why they wouldn't give ORD a shot with N/S service or connection via Asia. They filled Y, but had limited success with F / J (AMS being a low
47 Ryanair!!! : ... and the list will get longer with eevry addition and cancellation of destinations as the airline grows older. Brussels and Dallas are still on th
48 Ag92 : Well, what my TA told me was when it had Y+ the JCL was overbooked all the time, but after the economic recession hit SQ had plenty of promotions inc
49 Avek00 : ORD-SIN would only be a hub-to-hub flight if SQ cooperated with United. SQ codeshares with neither UA nor CO, and therefore the "Star Alliance" conne
50 Airbazar : DFW was served in the early 90's via LAX, IIRC. Code sharing "doesn't mean jack" for the passenger when the airlines are in the same alliance. Today
51 Avek00 : With all due respect, this is incorrect because: 1. Most res systems continue to give at least a modest preference to flight options which display a
52 MogandoCI : Flying to each other's city from your home base is not stepping on other's toes, because short of full ATI and revenue sharing (like DL-NW-AF-KL), yo
53 Airbazar : But that is exactly why SQ doesn't do it. They are not interested in filling up their planes with the type of passenger looking for cheap discounted
54 Olympic472 : I agree with your post except for the above. How so? Other than LHR-SIN, Star covers the map quite well. TG was what I used often before SQ got on-bo
55 MaverickM11 : How do you figure? All those routes are served by Star carriers with or without SQ's participation, and SQ doesn't bring many, if any, unique destina
56 Avek00 : But again, codesharing (vs. run of the mill interlining) helps here, too. Again, in the all important battle for the first slot (or first page) in sc
57 Ryanair!!! : How so? By the sheer fact that SQ was invited into Star Alliance and not the other way round.
58 Avek00 : What do you mean? Every Star member carrier (beyond the founding members, of course) has to be "invited" to join -- doesn't make SQ any more special
59 Ryanair!!! : With TG as one of the early founding members of this alliance, Asia (SE) was pretty well covered. Was there REALLY a need for SQ to come in other tha
60 Pellegrine : I've seen a lot of people on this site say, "ULH flights are worthless, never able to be profitable, blah blah." They never post anything to back thei
61 Avek00 : There's no "NEED" for any Star Alliance member to enter the alliance. It's a business relationship, not a blood oath. Every Star member joins and rem
62 Olympic472 : I guess for Star it is better to have SQ in their alliance than for them to be with oneworld or SkyTeam.
63 Avek00 : More like it's better for SQ to be in Star than in oneworld or SkyTeam.
64 Olympic472 : Works for me too
65 Airbazar : With the possible exception of FRA, SQ was serving all those routes long before they entered *A. Here's one, name another city pair in the World with
66 Huaiwei : I believe the notion is that SQ does not bring much additional destinations to the table, but it was the one which has the best ability to fight the
67 Nomorerjs : SQ never flew passenger flights to DFW. TG was here in the 80s and 90s and NZ was here very briefly on AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW. SQ cargo does fly here though.
68 Avek00 : No twisting of my words needed -- some airlines have a commercial interest that strongly favors joining an alliance, but no airline NEEDS any particu
69 Huaiwei : No twisting of your words is required, dear, because if I may quote you once again: "Forced" doesn't quite sound like a "choice", and for an airline
70 AznCSA4QF744ER : You can say that again. They are like a step child to Star Alliance, just like US Airways. No wonder SQ only code-shares with US on US domestic fligh
71 Pellegrine : QF is not a visionary. They were trying to sell themselves to Mcquarie Group et al. or whatever that was about, and wasted much time doing it. They c
72 Huaiwei : Probably, but SQ is more like Cinderella, while US is.....?
73 Avek00 : The Star TPAC JV has not yet been established, but will be implemented upon the setup of the TATL JV.
74 Ryanair!!! : ... Frankenstein...
75 LACA773 : Is there any chance we'll see SQ purchase or lease a small fleet of 77Ls once they no longer want to operate, or the 345s become to much of a financia
76 CO787EWR : They already operate the 777-300ER I assume you meant the 777-200LR. I believe they wont they already know the specs on the 77L its a known commodity
77 LACA773 : Yes! Thanks for correcting me. I apreciate it. I think we'll see the 788LR before the 350-900R mainly do the size of the a/c and the amount of capaci
78 Zvezda : An A350-900 should be able to carry 90 of SQ's Diamond Plus long-haul business class seats and operate LAX/EWR-SIN nonstop. I don't mean the A350-900R
79 Norcal773 : No an ULH flight but I did a mileage run on SQ1/2 this past weekend and they we packed, especially SQ/1 SFO-HKG. There were no more than 4 empty J-cla
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