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EU Will Lift Liquid's Ban At Some Airports In 2012  
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

According to this article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ty-proposals-air-travel-disruption

EU security officials have looked into lifting the current liquids in hand luggage ban. The article states that from 2012 the EU will lift the current liquids ban at airports in the EU handling over 10 million passengers.

Airports handling less than 10 million will have to wait until 2014 for the ban to lifted at their airport. However the smaller airports can have the ban lifted in 2012 if they invest in new scanners that can detect suspect liquids.

Additionally passengers from non EU countries will be able to carry liquids on internal EU flights from next year.

These proposals were discussed during a meeting in Brussels last week of security officials from EU member states and will be subject to further consultation before being put to the European parliament. The parliament has asked the commission to draft new guidelines by 30 April 2010, when current regulations expire.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9054 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3366 times:
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Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
EU security officials have looked into lifting the current liquids in hand luggage ban. The article states that from 2012 the EU will lift the current liquids ban at airports in the EU handling over 10 million passengers.

I really do hope so, but I don't believe it until I see it... This rule is a PITA. Let's hope they really lift that ban  crossfingers 

wilco737



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

I don't understand why they would lift these bans. It's just going to allow liquid explosives to possibly be brought on board all over again. Just because it hasn't happened since the ban doesn't mean you lift the ban. They haven't lifted the ban on guns just because no one has brought a gun on board (or tried) in a while.

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2645 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3279 times:
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I think it's not a good idea! People just got used to it, so why change that. Just leave it as it is!

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3188 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
Additionally passengers from non EU countries will be able to carry liquids on internal EU flights from next year.

Of what use would that be? Indeed, that could easily open the way for legal action.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3128 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 1):

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
EU security officials have looked into lifting the current liquids in hand luggage ban. The article states that from 2012 the EU will lift the current liquids ban at airports in the EU handling over 10 million passengers.

I really do hope so, but I don't believe it until I see it... This rule is a PITA. Let's hope they really lift that ban crossfingers

wilco737

I agree 100%. A major pain i t a. About time to get rid of it. We actually should be compensated for the time we had to live with it.


User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3117 times:



Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 2):
I don't understand why they would lift these bans. It's just going to allow liquid explosives to possibly be brought on board all over again. Just because it hasn't happened since the ban doesn't mean you lift the ban. They haven't lifted the ban on guns just because no one has brought a gun on board (or tried) in a while.

Did you read the excerpt or article? The bans will be lifted as equipment that scans for liquid explosives is deployed.

This is not a new idea - the authorities have been saying for years that the liquids bans will go once such technology is proven and in place.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2392 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3107 times:
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Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 2):
I don't understand why they would lift these bans. It's just going to allow liquid explosives to possibly be brought on board all over again. Just because it hasn't happened since the ban doesn't mean you lift the ban. They haven't lifted the ban on guns just because no one has brought a gun on board (or tried) in a while.

Amazing...
Haven't you yet realized that this liquid bombs plot is THE joke of the century ???



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

How stupid is that????

Why wait so long? ...and what the difference between a plus 10mil and minus 10mil airport.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 7):
Amazing...
Haven't you yet realized that this liquid bombs plot is THE joke of the century ???

Correct! If those overpaid &%§§(&$ in Brussels had ever consulted an chemist they would never had issued the ban.


User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

I bet it will stay in effect at LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG and other major connection airports.

I was in HEL in May, and they didnt care. People brout through water bottles and everything, only to be told on their connection at LHR that they couldn't bring it through.


User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3046 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 7):
Haven't you yet realized that this liquid bombs plot is THE joke of the century ???



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
Correct! If those overpaid &%§§(&$ in Brussels had ever consulted an chemist they would never had issued the ban.

Was PR 434 and Bojinka a joke?


User currently offlineBERflyer From Germany, joined Jul 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3014 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 4):

This is long overdue! This rule is helping all those passengers which bought liquids in duty free shops outside the EU ( lets say in New York ) just to get these bottles confiscated at their european connecting airport. Most expensive bottle of whiskey confiscated at Frankfurt to date ( because it was a dangerous explosive! Sad GBP 2000!
You might buy bottles of all sorts of liquids in the sterile area of any airport in the world - if you connecting from that flight somewhere in europe these liquids are then "illegal".


User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

I'll believe it when I see it, but it would be a very welcome change and a sign of common sense prevailing. The whole liquids ban was just a knee-jerk reaction to the liquid bombs plot, and resulted in another way to increase the inconvenience of air travel while offering a false illusion of safety.

User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2882 times:



Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 2):
It's just going to allow liquid explosives to possibly be brought on board all over again.

What? Its easy enough to create a 'liquid-bomb' using your allowed 100ml containers. Search YouTube and you'll find plenty of videos I'm sure.

Airports won't want to have the ruling lifted as it'll mean less profits on drink sold airside.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 7):
Amazing...
Haven't you yet realized that this liquid bombs plot is THE joke of the century ???

Well, it was a real threat the time. But the measures they took against the perceived threat were totally useless.



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2745 times:



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
Correct! If those overpaid &%§§(&$ in Brussels had ever consulted an chemist they would never had issued the ban.



Quoting R2rho (Reply 12):
The whole liquids ban was just a knee-jerk reaction to the liquid bombs plot, and resulted in another way to increase the inconvenience of air travel while offering a false illusion of safety.



Quoting JER757 (Reply 13):
Well, it was a real threat the time. But the measures they took against the perceived threat were totally useless.

I agree with all of you and that's why I think this silly ban needs to be lifted asap.


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2300 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Why wait for new scanners to be deployed? Why not just admit that initiating this luquid rule was a mistake in the first place? Oh, I forgot, the EU bureaucrats would never admit to making a mistake.

Quoting JER757 (Reply 13):
Airports won't want to have the ruling lifted as it'll mean less profits on drink sold airside.

Actually, the airports have lost a lot of money on the ban as people have bought less duty free. At the same time, they've been forced to employ more security guards to check cabin baggage.



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User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2596 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
Additionally passengers from non EU countries will be able to carry liquids on internal EU flights from next year.

I don't understand why this should be. At least within the EU we will have intelligence about certain travellers. But non-EU pax will be a new ball game.

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 9):
I was in HEL in May, and they didnt care.

Nobody has any reason to be nasty to Finland so unlikely to be a terrorist target.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 15):
Actually, the airports have lost a lot of money on the ban as people have bought less duty free.

This is true. I pass through UK airports several times a month and refuse to buy anything. They make a big thing about no sharp objects through security but I can buy a bottle of booze in duty free, break it and shove it in someones face. Where's the logic in that?


User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2570 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 16):
I don't understand why this should be. At least within the EU we will have intelligence about certain travellers. But non-EU pax will be a new ball game.

(Whether Brussels admits to it or not) It is not about having intelligence about them, it is about duty free purchases coming from abroad, and the lack of a universal regulation on them. I still do not understand why in the USA they do not seal the top of the duty free bags. Case in point: If I buy something at Duty Free in BOS, it will get taken away in FRA, even if I have the receipt for it and it is still in the original bag. However, if I buy duty free on LH 40.000 over the pond 2 hours after leaving BOS, it gets put in a sealed bag, and will not be taken away at the security checkpoint. (LH apparently will pay for it if the bag is still sealed and they take it away).

It's these kind of abnormalities that are the issue. And duty free is losing money.



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2383 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 7):
aven't you yet realized that this liquid bombs plot is THE joke of the century ???

How was it the joke of the century. We got lucky and they were caught before they could put it in motion. The guy trying to light his shoe to set off a bomb was a funny one but we still send our shoes through the x-ray machine

Quoting JER757 (Reply 13):
Airports won't want to have the ruling lifted as it'll mean less profits on drink sold airside.

as far as i know the only thing airlines charge for drinks wise is alcohol, and i don't remember too many people bringing their own on board.


User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2351 times:



Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 17):
If I buy something at Duty Free in BOS, it will get taken away in FRA, even if I have the receipt for it and it is still in the original bag.

How much are you bringing? If within the limit then how/why is it taken away?

Quoting RedChili (Reply 15):
Actually, the airports have lost a lot of money on the ban as people have bought less duty free.

How? Duty Free can only be purchased after security?


User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

http://www.arlanda.net/templates/xnat_nyhet.aspx?id=4774

ARN is now doing a test with the new machines! If you are arriving from a non EU EES etc or a not approved airport outside EU with your duty free liqiuds. You can now fly domestic in Sweden at ARN terminal 3 & 4. if your duty free liquids is sealed according to the EU law. A tamper bag with a reciept inside. You will have to go to a special secuirity screening point so they can see if there is any liquids explosive!


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2310 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 19):
Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 17):
If I buy something at Duty Free in BOS, it will get taken away in FRA, even if I have the receipt for it and it is still in the original bag.

How much are you bringing? If within the limit then how/why is it taken away?

Most of the alcohol bottles in duty free stores are larger than 100 ml, so airport security would confiscate them.

Quoting AirNz (Reply 19):
Quoting RedChili (Reply 15):
Actually, the airports have lost a lot of money on the ban as people have bought less duty free.

How? Duty Free can only be purchased after security?

Yes, but you have go go trough security when connecting from a TATL flight to an intra-Schengen flight. Interestingly enough, there is no security check on the way back.
When i was traveling to VIE a month ago (YXU-FRA-VIE), the folks at YYZ wouldn't even sell me a bottle of scotch. Explanation - it would be confiscated by the security at FRA. Bottle of JWB purchased from LH and kept in sealed bag was OK.


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2300 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2123 times:



Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 17):
It is not about having intelligence about them, it is about duty free purchases coming from abroad, and the lack of a universal regulation on them.

The problem is that the EU only allows duty free which is sold in airports or airlines conforming to the EU laws and regulations. On the one hand, you cannot really expect the USA to commit to conform to the security regulations of the EU. On the other hand, you cannot expect the EU to make an exception only for the USA.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 18):
How was it the joke of the century. We got lucky and they were caught before they could put it in motion.

They were caught because of intelligence. There's no evidence that the no-liquid-rule and confiscation of liquids would have made a difference.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 18):
as far as i know the only thing airlines charge for drinks wise is alcohol, and i don't remember too many people bringing their own on board.

The problem is that the airports lose money because some people don't dare to buy duty free anymore.

Quoting AirNz (Reply 19):
How much are you bringing? If within the limit then how/why is it taken away?

It's taken away because the stores at BOS airport do not follow EU laws and regulations.

Quoting AirNz (Reply 19):
How? Duty Free can only be purchased after security?

Because people fear that any liquids purchased will be taken away when they board their flight.

A friend of mine was flying ARN-TLL a few years ago, and I met him airside at ARN. He told me he wanted to buy some Swedish food to bring to his family, but he wouldn't do it because he was going on an airplane. I told him it's okay to do it because he had already passed through security, plus the container would anyway be in a sealed plastic bag, and then he agreed to buy the stuff.

Many people have this mistaken belief that they cannot buy liquids in security, or they think that it's better to be on the safe side; don't risk being labelled as a terrorist!

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 21):
Yes, but you have go go trough security when connecting from a TATL flight to an intra-Schengen flight. Interestingly enough, there is no security check on the way back.
When i was traveling to VIE a month ago (YXU-FRA-VIE)

Because both VIE and FRA conform to EU laws and regulations. The security staff at FRA are allowed to trust the VIE security and send you straight to your flight without the need for a security check at FRA, but they cannot trust the security at YXU, which does not follow EU rules.



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