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Easyjet Wear And Tear. (A319)  
User currently offlineBeakerLTN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 295 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11498 times:

Morning chaps,

I flew NAP to STN on Saturday on birdie G-EZGP (built 2005). I have to confess I've always been a bit of a fan of Eastyjet, and quite the opposite of Ryanair, btu that's not a point for this thread. The thing is, I was very suprised at the poor state of such a new aircraft.

1. Interior - We (myself and missus) moved 3 times, before finally on the fourth attempt found two seats that were not broken. - By broken I mean backs that didn't go fully upright, or sagged back badly when you sat on them.

2. The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off. I'm sure I've never hear that before. - Is this normal in some configuration? Seperately, Engine 2 gave quite a lot of whispy smoke on start up too.

When I looked up on the CAA wesbite, it says it's Airworthyness cert is up for expiry in a couple of weeks.

I guess the point of this thread, is: Is the aircraft likely to have a major maintence check and will be stripped out - maybe I saw one of their aircraft at the very end of it's run between major services (4 years)

Still, suprised at you EZY, that'd you'd allow your a/c to become some worn.


300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11469 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
2. The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off.

I don't know much about the rest, but I hear this all the time on US A32X aircraft. It really freaks a lot of the passengers out, it's quite funny to see their expressions.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11351 times:

Nothing to do with airworthiness at all. if the plane was not airworthy it would not fly.

Specifically you mention smoke from the engine. The life of engines on the wing is very long these days, and not tied to specific dates or hours. if it needs removing and overhauling it will, if it doesn't it won't.

As to the interior, particularly with LCC's the seats and furnishings get an awful lot of use (and abuse) Five or more sectors a day 7 days a week. Thats a lot of bums on seats. Plus short turn round times don't allow much in the way of cleaning.

At present it seems to be quite widespread to see comments regarding scruffy interiors on planes, the poor returns from aviation probably has somethign to do with it.


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11170 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
Seperately, Engine 2 gave quite a lot of whispy smoke on start up too.

A lot of engines do this. The CFM56 tends to puddle oil in the tailcone, not much maybe 1/2 pint. when the hot exhaust hits it on start up it smokes. The oil is always coming out of that rear seal but once the engine is running you can't see it. It is not uncommon to service that engine with upto six quarts after a transcont flight. The Rolls Royce on the old Tristars was very notorious for smokey starts.

Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off. I'm sure I've never hear that before. - Is this normal in some configuration?

That is the back up electric hydraulic pumps. They always make that noise. It is completely normal. I'll bet you never noticed it before because either where you we seated or that they turned them off before engine shutdown.

Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
1. Interior - We (myself and missus) moved 3 times, before finally on the fourth attempt found two seats that were not broken. - By broken I mean backs that didn't go fully upright, or sagged back badly when you sat on them.

That in my opinon is poor maintenace. They should be spending more time working the interiors. I know my airline has dedicated crews that just do interior checks. Each airplane gets a thorough work over every two weeks plus they address items like these as they pop up. We spend a lot of manhours on this due to the very question in your head. "They seats are broken, what about the rest of the airplane?" I know a lot of mechanics tend to overlook the interior, especially the cosmetic stuff. They forget our customers are sitting in that seat for hours looking at that stuff.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11156 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
2. The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off. I'm sure I've never hear that before. - Is this normal in some configuration? Seperately, Engine 2 gave quite a lot of whispy smoke on start up too.

This is quite common and not a problem at all.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5824 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10827 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
Seperately, Engine 2 gave quite a lot of whispy smoke on start up too.

This is not uncommon for the CFM's, which I believe Eee-"Zed"-Why flies on their birds. It's especially visible on cooler mornings, but can happen at any time, depending on atmospheric conditions.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
Nothing to do with airworthiness at all. if the plane was not airworthy it would not fly.

Lol- wanna bet? Tell that to the Aloha convertible 737 passengers.... and yes, errors in airworthiness judgement are still made today.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
The life of engines on the wing is very long these days, and not tied to specific dates or hours.

That's not true of Airbus narrowbodies with CFM engines, after someone (LH? US? Can't remember) had an incident with two engines attempting protective shutdowns in flight. I believe that the stipulation is that the two engines cannot be of the same age (hours metric, not cycles).

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
At present it seems to be quite widespread to see comments regarding scruffy interiors on planes, the poor returns from aviation probably has somethign to do with it.

Indeed, sadly.


User currently offlineWoof From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10794 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
I believe that the stipulation is that the two engines cannot be of the same age (hours metric, not cycles).

Without trying to sound pedantic, doesn't that make buying a new Airbus a bit of a pain? Would you not be able to buy and fly one with 2 new brand spanking engines (fully tested of course)?


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10743 times:

Common problem with LCCs I think - some early AK A320s (9M-AF* series) are very worn out as well, same goes for 5J A319 cabins.


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10737 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
Nothing to do with airworthiness at all. if the plane was not airworthy it would not fly.


Lol- wanna bet? Tell that to the Aloha convertible 737 passengers.... and yes, errors in airworthiness judgement are still made today.

The Aloha incident was something outside of normal aircraft usage, very high hours with very high cycles. I recall it was something like 110,000 hours flown on inter island routes, and the aircraft had experienced more pressurisations than any other 737.
Here we are talking about a plane flying far more typical routes, for a major airline and under 4 years old.


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10664 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
2. The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off. I'm sure I've never hear that before. - Is this normal in some configuration? Seperately, Engine 2 gave quite a lot of whispy smoke on start up too.

That's not so abnormal. I was once on an Alitalia (I-BXV - an A321) and as we were taxiing out at FCO on our way to CAI this awful noise coming from below was making a lot of people nervous including the FA. It was as if there was a gorilla or something jumping up and down with a hammer and smashing everything in sight. Never heard anything like that since!

The noise persisted until a short while before cruise and then subsided. Upon arrival at CAI there were no noises like those we experienced at FCO.



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3428 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10627 times:



Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 3):
That is the back up electric hydraulic pumps. They always make that noise. It is completely normal. I'll bet you never noticed it before because either where you we seated or that they turned them off before engine shutdown.

Actually I think it's the PTU hes talking about. It's not uncommon for it to start running for a couple of seconds (it's not a regular occurence, but it happens) during engine start when the hydraulic systems, specifically the yellow and green system, are being pressurized (it's a little more complicated than that, but i don't wanna go into details) The same may happen during engine shutdown, when the opposite (depressurization) occurs.

This has NOTHING to do with the airworthiness state of an A32S.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10627 times:

"Strange hydraulic noises" seems to be a characteristic of the A320 series. Typically on Boeings all I can ever recall is flaps and undercarriage deploying. Whereas on my 1st A319 flight, I quickly heard these things. Of course through reading A net I was fully prepared for this !!

I assume its because these pumps etc are mounted directly in the wing/fuselage joint area on the A320, and elsewhere on Boeings


User currently offlineBeakerLTN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10499 times:

Sorry all, When I was referring to the airworthyness cert soon being up for revewal I was wondering if this would normally coincide with a major maintenance check and full interior strip. Or was it just conicidence that all of these seemed due? I wasn't suggesting the aircraft was not airworthy.

and yes, Sandro, it was the PTU I was referring to, but I couldn't remember what it was called. It just seemed odd for it to run after shut down - and I've flown on EZ's 319's a lot.

The other thing I forgot to mention was that the time it took for the main gear to retract was very uneven - you heard one side clonk up, then possible 5 secs before the other side made a slightly louder clonk together with stressed sounding motors.

The whole thing just sounded a bit tired for a bird that's only 4years old. I'm not whingeing, just purely sharing my observations.



300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10421 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 12):
Sorry all, When I was referring to the airworthyness cert soon being up for revewal I was wondering if this would normally coincide with a major maintenance check and full interior strip. Or was it just conicidence that all of these seemed due? I wasn't suggesting the aircraft was not airworthy.

Coincidence. I'm sure that maintenance checks are based on hours/cycles not calendar dates. As to the interior, at 4 years old this plane is probably nearing the end of its U2 career. There can't be many older A319's in the fleet.
Does anyone know if the older A319's will start to be replaced once the last 737's go ?


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1327 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7158 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 13):
Does anyone know if the older A319's will start to be replaced once the last 737's go ?

There are rumours that the first 5 A319's will be replaced, however, this is still unconfirmed. Registrations are G-EZAM, G-EZDC, G-EZMH, G-EZNC and G-EZSM, initially delivered to easyJet Switzerland as HB-JZA-E and later transferred to easyJet.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6328 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
The Aloha incident was something outside of normal aircraft usage, very high hours with very high cycles. I recall it was something like 110,000 hours flown on inter island routes, and the aircraft had experienced more pressurisations than any other 737.

High cycles, yes, but hours were actually very low for a 19-year-old aircraft, only 35,496. The 89,680 cyclet (average flight time less than 20 minutes) were then the 2nd highest of all 737s worldwide.

However, the NTSB accident report includes the following:

Due to the short distance between destinations on some Aloha Airlines routes, the maximum pressure differential of 7.5 psi was not reached on every flight. Therefore, the number of full pressurization cycles on the accident airplane is significantly less than the 89,680 cycles accumulated on the airplane.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5985 times:
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Actually, a lot of the EZY A319 I see have surprisingly neat interiors, but as has already been pointed out it is hardly surprising if some birds are showing some wear. They are getting some seriously hard usage, and the customers are not always kind to them. As for the engine issues mentioned - nothing, as several others have pointed out. Not even worth thinking about.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Having flown EZ on many occasions recently, I've also noticed that on some aircraft, the orange paint on the engine cowling is fading and crackling in many places. The lacquer is all but gone. Could this be due to a lot of sunny destinations?

User currently offlineYodobashi From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 237 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

One would like to think that such as EZY and RYR take safety extremely seriously?

Passengers who fly on LCC's have to accept that they get what they pay for. Most are prepared to forego such 'luxuries' as a 31" seat pitch, free hold baggage, biscuits and coffee in exchange for a cheaper fare. There are surely few however that would knowingly travel LCC's if they had also to seriously consider their own mortality?

The last thing EZY (for example) needs is an incident, or worse, an accident related to lack of maintenance and the subsequent ramifications.

As an aside, it's interesting to see the accumulated hours of an EZY A319 against that one of the oldest BA A320's ....

G-EZBP (EZY) - built 03/2007 - hours y/e 2008 6,018 .... approx utilisation of 9h 30m per day
G-BUSH (BA) - built 06/1989 - hours y/e 2008 38,330 .... approx utilisation of 5h 20m per day

.... shows how much of a hammering the EZY A/C get compared to BA, yet some BA interiors leave a lot be to desired too!



"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page"
User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3899 times:



Quoting BeakerLTN (Thread starter):
The hydraulic pump that makes the whirry noise I start up, kept going for a good 30 seconds in 1-2 second bursts after the engines had been turned off.

After starting one engine the hydraulic system from that engine will power the PTU which transfers hydraulic power to the system associated with the engine that has not started yet. As soon as the second engine has started it powers it's onside hydraulic system and the PTU turns off.

As for shutdown.
EZY carry out single engine taxi in's so one engine will be turned off soon after landing. After doing this they must turn on the YELLOW hydraulic Electric pump in order not to lose some systems associated with the engine they just shut down.
When on stand and the remaining engine is shut down the YELLOW electic pump powers the PTU which powers the Green system from the remaining engine that was just turned off.

It IS the same noise you hear as when the engines start and it will last until one of the pilots turn off the YELLOW ELECTRIC hydraulic pump.

I have flown EZY and also noticed that it is on for a while ater second engine shut down. All I can guess is that the action to turn the pump off comes late in the shutdown checks.


User currently offlineBeakerLTN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Quoting BALandorLivery (Reply 19):

Many thanks for your very detailed reply on the PTU noises - that was what I was after. I knew that was what the noise was on startup, but had never heard on shut down.

In reply to RussianJet - this was what made me post this. Pretty much every EZY plane I've flown on has been immaculate, which is why it suprised me to find one so tatty. Still the fantastic cabin crew made for it. EZY do have some lovely girls working for them. I enjoy chatting down the back about how much better they are than Ryanair. I think they like that.  Smile

[Edited 2009-09-25 00:16:19]


300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3464 times:



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 9):
It was as if there was a gorilla or something jumping up and down with a hammer and smashing everything in sight. Never heard anything like that since!



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 9):
The noise persisted until a short while before cruise and then subsided

Maybe it was a gorilla. A friend of mine in another Arab state told me a friend of his got a white tiger as a birthday gift! It's possible the gorilla died in the cold of high altitude.  Sad

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
I believe that the stipulation is that the two engines cannot be of the same age (hours metric, not cycles).

Where can I find a reference to this fact? When I ,one day, buy my new A318 I want two new shiny engines on it.  Wink


User currently offlineACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Yes, We do like being told how much better than Ryanair we are, and yes we hear it a lot. We do also get the odd grumble about free-seating and speedy-boarding. For the most-part, passengers do seem to really like easyJet.

As for the cabins on the Airbus looking tatty, its down to high utilization along with the respect of the passenger who occupies it.


User currently offlineFlybehubby From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3359 times:



Quoting Yodobashi (Reply 18):
The last thing EZY (for example) needs is an incident, or worse, an accident related to lack of maintenance and the subsequent ramifications.

Very true, Stelios himself has said on a number of occasions something along the lines of "If you think safety/maintainace is expensive....try an accident"



Helping to turn Europe orange.
User currently offlineBeakerLTN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3297 times:



Quoting ACEregular (Reply 22):
We do also get the odd grumble about free-seating and speedy-boarding.

..and that you never carry enough bacon rolls..!!???



300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
25 Delta777Jet : Do you mean G-EZEP??? We don't have a G-EZGP in Fleet!
26 ACEregular : I think it was possibly G-EZPG they meant.
27 BeakerLTN : Yes, it was PG - sorry! - I knew my original posts was full of mistakes but I didn't spot that one!! That's embarassing!!
28 DocLightning : OK, but a malfunctioning seatback is not a cosmetic problem. At least in the U.S. a passenger isn't allowed to use a seat with a malfunctioning seatb
29 SandroZRH : Yeh but that has probably more to do with the possibility of the seatback collapsing when a passenger sits down
30 Marky : As others have said, the expiry of the CofA has no link to maintenance checks. Now that UK CofA's are based on European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
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