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OAG Changes 9/24/09: F9/YX Integration/B6/DL/UA  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7409 times:

As usual this is versus what was for sale last week, not versus last year.

How to read:
AAA-BBB 6>5 NOV- means a reduction of one roundtrip from 6 to 5 in the selling schedule effective in November.
AAA-BBB CXLD 1>0 DEC means the service is canceled for December only.
AAA-BBB NEW 0>2 JAN-MAR means service has been added for the period of Jan to March where previously none was for sale.

AA
ORD-CLE 5>6 JAN-

B6
BOS-DEN 1>2 FEB- (WN RESPONSE)

DL
ATL-NAS 4>5 JAN- (FL RESPONSE)
ATL-SVO CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

JFK-KBP CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

JFK-SNN CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

F9
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by E190s. These are all swaps and do not appear to represent frequency changes.
DEN-OMA 3
DEN-ATL 1
DEN-BOI 2
DEN-CAK 1
DEN-DAY 1
DEN-GEG 2
DEN-LAX 1.2
DEN-MCI 0.8
DEN-MSP 1
DEN-SAN 2
DEN-SEA 2
DEN-SJC 1
DEN-MKE 1

These are frequency changes regardless of type:
DEN-BZN 1>2 NOV-
DEN-DRO 2>3 NOV-
DEN-OKC 4>5 NOV-
DEN-PDX 3>4 NOV-

YX
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by A319s.

MKE-BOS 1
MKE-LAS 2
MKE-LAX 2
MKE-MCO 2
MKE-PHX 2
MKE-TPA 1
MKE-RSW 1

These are frequency changes regardless of type:
MKE-LAX 2>2.5 DEC-
MKE-MCO 1>2 NOV-
MKE-TPA 1>2 NOV-
MKE-STL NEW 0>3 MAR-

UA
AVL-ORD NEW 0>2 DEC-
MAF-DEN NEW 0>2 DEC-
DLH-ORD NEW 0>2 DEC-
ELP-LAX NEW 0>2 DEC-

[Edited 2009-09-24 11:14:36]

89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7414 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-STL NEW 0>3 MAR-

Not sure how it was loaded, but this one was announced as 135s, not bigger planes.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7385 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
Frequency changes are following:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Not sure how it was loaded, but this one was announced as 135s, not bigger planes.

I think you misread. First is a list of A319 routes and then frequency changes.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7682 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7365 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-SVO CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

As of right now its out of the schedules until June 11. But Im guessing that might change.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7366 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
As of right now its out of the schedules until June 11. But Im guessing that might change.

I think AA is axing their Moscow flight in next week's update.


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1930 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7347 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
F9
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by E190s. These are all swaps and do not appear to represent frequency changes.
DEN-OMA 3

Will these be handled by F9 staff since they're operating for F9 or will they be handled by YX staff since they'll be painted in YX colors?


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7348 times:

BTW, I was surprised AA has still not loaded their huge schedule change. I'm hearing this weekend.

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7682 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7329 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
I think AA is axing their Moscow flight in next week's update.

No, I know that. But at least in Apollo, DL has taken ATL-SVO out until June 11.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7284 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):

No, I know that. But at least in Apollo, DL has taken ATL-SVO out until June 11.

I just meant to support you by saying the wind is blowing that way. e.g. Moscow is doing poorly across the board.

Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 5):
Will these be handled by F9 staff since they're operating for F9 or will they be handled by YX staff since they'll be painted in YX colors?

I'm not sure why they would be in YX colors? I would hope they'd have animals on the tails. If they are long-term at F9 then they should reflect the paint of the airline they are operating for. If they aren't going to do that then I question why bother having two brands in the first place.

F9 (or their contractors) staff will handle them, but the crew will be Republic.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7682 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7243 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 8):
I just meant to support you by saying the wind is blowing that way. e.g. Moscow is doing poorly across the board.

Ahhh...thanks bro!  Smile

Yeah, Moscow is doing very poorly right now.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7243 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):
BTW, I was surprised AA has still not loaded their huge schedule change. I'm hearing this weekend.

I was hoping to see it too. Does this mean it will be loaded into OAG next week then?


User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

Jfk-Ksp resumes 6/6/2010 Jfk -Snn resumes 6/7/2010 and Atl Svo resumes 6/04/2010.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17649 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7201 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):
I was surprised AA has still not loaded their huge schedule change. I'm hearing this weekend

The international stuff is there today; I think the domestic load is there as well.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by E190s. These are all swaps and do not appear to represent frequency changes.



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by A319s.

This looks like a branding nightmare



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7066 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-KBP CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

JFK-SNN CXLD WAS TO RESUME IN MARCH, DONT SEE A NEW RESUMPTION DATE THROUGH APRIL

So far planned to restart in May 2010. KBP (May 2) and SNN (May 7)


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7031 times:



Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 5):
Will these be handled by F9 staff since they're operating for F9 or will they be handled by YX staff since they'll be painted in YX colors?

The E190's will be handled by YX staff and crewed by YX crews. The Airbuses will be handed by us (F9) and crewed by us. The liveries will not change.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineFghtngsiouxatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7017 times:

Very interesting schedule. I wonder what's going to happen to Frontier's MDW flights. Stay A319 or switch to the E190?

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6791 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6982 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
This looks like a branding nightmare

I couldn't agree more. Seems like the Forrest-Gump-box-of-chocolates branding strategy: "You never know what you're gonna get."

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
F9
Effective with the November schedule, the following frequencies will be operated by E190s. These are all swaps and do not appear to represent frequency changes.

This is not an insignificant cut in F9's capacity at DEN -- 19 daily departures represents close to 15% of their mainline flights. With the E190's offering 15-25% fewer seats than the A318s & A319s they are presumably replacing, this looks like a reduction in ASMs of around 3%.


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1930 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6929 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):

The E190's will be handled by YX staff and crewed by YX crews. The Airbuses will be handed by us (F9) and crewed by us. The liveries will not change.

Really? Even though these OMA-DEN flights are only available for purchase on F9's website? In November, OMA-DEN goes to 3X 190 and 2X Q400. So will the mainline F9 staff here in OMA only have 2 flights a day to work? It doesn't seem sensible for these F9 pax to check in with YX when F9's counter is right next door. Could be confusing.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6914 times:



Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 17):
Really?

Yep. That is what was being said in my last crew meeting and I believe SM has said the same thing.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6871 times:



Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 17):
It doesn't seem sensible for these F9 pax to check in with YX when F9's counter is right next door. Could be confusing.

Why not? The same problem happens with AS/QX anyway. This is no different.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6853 times:
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Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 17):
So will the mainline F9 staff here in OMA only have 2 flights a day to work? It doesn't seem sensible for these F9 pax to check in with YX when F9's counter is right next door. Could be confusing.

At some point in the not too distant future, it will become one - Frontier/Midwest. That's already happened at IND and DAY and maybe some others - I don't have the latest list yet.

Similarly, Frontier now uses the D concourse at MKE - or will, within days.

mariner

[Edited 2009-09-24 12:32:59]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6832 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
At some point in the not too distant future, it will become one - Frontier/Midwest.

 checkmark  I am beginning to see this happening more and more, day by day as we hear new things from management weekly...



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17649 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6763 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
Why not? The same problem happens with AS/QX anyway. This is no different.

Yeah that's really no big deal. The big problem on the passenger side comes down to TV and cookies; it's a little simplistic but it illustrates the point. Both carriers have cultivated strong brands that include one or the other, and to have passengers buy a ticket expecting a certain experience and not getting it is bad for business. That said it's probably a pretty simple fix--cookie ovens on F9 and TVs on the E-jets, for example.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6730 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
That said it's probably a pretty simple fix--cookie ovens on F9 and TVs on the E-jets, for example.

The Midwest pax - and Frontier pax - on the Midwest flights ex-MKE get both - the tv and the cookies.  Smile

As to tv on the E190's, I believe there are some issues of timing, even if they plan to do it, but this situation has happened before, when Republic were flying E170's for Frontier.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6700 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
That said it's probably a pretty simple fix--cookie ovens on F9 and TVs on the E-jets, for example.

Two ovens in the fwd galley on all Airbus aircraft, a given. LiveTV on the E190's will be a bit costly to do....

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
on the Midwest flights ex-MKE get both - the tv and the cookies

You mean on the Airbuses (Crewed by F9 as I said earlier...), they will get both the cookies and the LiveTV.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 LAXdude1023 : Really? I cant see it. Is it on AA.com or in Sabre, Apollo, or Worldspan?
26 Post contains links Mariner : That's what BB has said: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/ JSOnline: "The jets will include DirectTV service available for purchase, and the Midwes
27 Jetbluefan1 : I must admit, I'm surprised. Looks like B6 is starting to play hardball, especially when it comes to protecting BOS. Nonetheless, a second flight on
28 MaverickM11 : 4 LCC flights on DEN-BOS is going to be a disaster for everyone; I'm curious who will pull out first.
29 Mariner : I doubt it will be Southwest, even if the flights were to lose money. DEN seems to have become a "special cause" for them. mariner
30 BMI727 : The thing is, in my estimation, one of the strongest things about both Midwest and Frontier is the brands. In both cases there is a brand that is kno
31 LAXdude1023 : I also cannot figure their obsession with Denver. Lovely city, not the place to be making money right now with all the compeition.
32 Mariner : I don't think so. I think(?) it is based on American's planned departure from the route. Chautauqua presently flies the route for AA. AA is pulling o
33 Dfanucci : Oddly enough, that has a nice ring to it. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in conferences regarding how the branding is going to co-exist. Marketing
34 FL787 : For LAX, where are you seeing two daily effective in November? I only see a 7 am flight. And in December I only see it going to two daily. Where does
35 Post contains links Mariner : It's interesting. The failed bid for Frontier brought a lot of things to light, but Southwest will not discuss the profitability. It happens again to
36 MAH4546 : It's not overdue. It is overcapacity, and somebody will give by summer. Then again, B6 and WN are in better shape to battle than others.
37 Cubsrule : They aren't public, though CHQ probably knows when their flying is moving to ORD if AA has figured it out.
38 MAH4546 : They are flying four routes, IIRC. I believe ORD-IND, ORD-DTW, ORD-CVG and one other. But I don't remember exactly.
39 FlyIGuy : A bit surprised at this since bith ORD and CLE will bith be *A hubs... Just my 0.02
40 Cubsrule : Interesting; I might expect a couple of those to see the 2-class CR7s (CVG and DTW in particular, where UA has a lot of flights with F cabins).
41 Flymix : I find this situation pretty strange....the primary funding for Republic to do all this with F9 and YX basically comes from UA, AA, US and CAL in the
42 Mariner : It gets stranger. Delta/NWA gave their 40% holding in Midwest to Republic, effectively for free. mariner
43 Enilria : I'm feeling that more and more. Even in MKE and DEN you are now going to have a hodge-podge fleet of planes with different paint and products, but ev
44 Mariner : The tv things has happened before, and I wouldn't commit myself to anything on the seat pitch or cabin layout. Not for a while, anyway. But if want t
45 Enilria : That's always true, but I'm sure you must also be feeling that the complexities of this multi-product concept are starting to show a lot of warts. I'
46 Mariner : Nope. I'm aware that there is a lot going on, much of which has either not been announced or, in some cases, not decided yet. I've tried to alert you
47 Enilria : Is that just time to think, or does something happen in 3 months you are privy to?
48 Mariner : A very great deal will have happened in three months (maybe four), some of which is known, some of which can easily worked out - and some is unknown.
49 LACA773 : I was just asking about this yesterday on another thread about YX/F9. This gives Republic the flexibility to utilize a/c according to specific loads
50 Mke717spotter : The E190s that F9 is getting, are these being taken away from the nine that YX was supposed to fly, or is YX still going to be flying nine with five e
51 Sideflare75 : How does the weight of the system affect Jetblue? They have the same system don't they? Funny thing is the factory new 190's now flying for YX have f
52 Sideflare75 : Yes they are now operating out of D43. Ticket counter has also been moved down with Midwest.
53 F9fan : I'm curious as to what F9/YX is doing at CAK. As it stands now, F9 has been doing surprisingly well on the CAK-DEN route. They've had no problems fill
54 MASTYC : CAK and SEA are the ones that stick out seriously. There are never any seats on either of those cities.
55 UN_B732 : I had a feeling DL wouln't last at KBP, especially after they dropped at OTP. I don't think I'd be surprised to see it not come back. ATL-SVO are we s
56 Enilria : Actually, it doesn't give them that ability on a day-by-day basis because crew schedules have to be locked 30-60 days before the flight. If it were A
57 LACA773 : I don't believe this will happen. ATL-SVO is a very important and vital route to the DL system. Not only has the route done well for DL in the past (
58 Enilria : It's the holy grail that airlines have attempted to do for at least 20 years. The only carrier I am aware that does "on demand dispatch" is CO on the
59 LAXdude1023 : Its gone until the beginning of June. After that, who knows?
60 Cubsrule : NW is or was pretty close to it with the -9s, especially the -40 and the -50 (-30 has fewer f/as).
61 Enilria : I never heard anything about them actually doing it in practice, but they certainly had the fleet for it.
62 Cubsrule : When I flew them a lot in 2005 and 2006, I'd say that the seat map I saw 24 hours out was the aircraft I got only half or two-thirds of the time.
63 Mariner : Frontier does fine DEN-MDW, it was United who pulled the route. Frontier realized, fairly early on in the piece, that it was pointless trying to comp
64 AirframeAS : I said that the E190's will be crewed by YX crews in YX livery, meaning the pilots and FA's. I never said anything about ground handling, which I do
65 AirframeAS : I don't understand this.... I am assuming the 4x to PDX and back would be the same as what SEA gets now: 2x 319 and 2x 318. Why the sudden drop in ca
66 Mariner : Which sudden drop in capacity? As stated, DEN-SEA does extremely well, for most airlines, but there is always some winter slackening. Note that South
67 AirframeAS : Right now, we are flying 2x A319 and 2x A318 on the SEA route. Before that change, it used to be 5x A319. Last winter, it was still 5x A319 to SEA. T
68 Mariner : Yes, and in that time the economy has changed. Airlines everywhere have been dropping capacity for this coming winter. So if Frontier is swapping 1 x
69 AirframeAS : Bad logic since we are not getting E190's under the F9 banner... but I do get your point. And I forgot to mention that these are now full as hell....
70 Mariner : The E190's are flying for Frontier under a capacity purchase agreement. These are Frontier flights, simply operated by Republic. And at what fares? I
71 AirframeAS : That may be, but we wont be touching them, flight crew-wise nor mx-wise. Still a YX aircraft crewed by YX. So I consider this as a codeshare thing. L
72 Mariner : Consider it what you will, but Frontier is in charge of scheduling and sales and all the revenue goes to Frontier. Frontier staff will handle check-i
73 TZTriStar500 : I'm going to have to nitpick here. Since the YX certificate is going away, there will no longer be any YX crews. The only aircraft YX crews now are t
74 Enilria : Everybody does that. Doing day by day is a much more difficult exercise, although one that could bear fruit if anybody can do it. You said "The E190'
75 Mariner : Sure - if anyone could. mariner
76 AirframeAS : I don't ever recall hearing that or seeing that anywhere except for A.net speculation. If that is truly the case, then that is what I was driving at
77 DLX737200 : I took it the same way. Glad we got that cleared up!
78 Mariner : No. The revenue from the DEA-SEA flights on the Republic E190 goes to Frontier. Frontier then pays Republic a fee for flying the route, and, hopefull
79 N7371f : I haven't read anything or had anyone tell me that RP flying for F9 is a true capacity purchase agreement - like RP flying for DL for example. And I'm
80 Mariner : I'm fairly sure it is. I don't have a link to it, but that is what my dickie birds tell me. Similarly, that Frontier flying for Midwest is a capacity
81 Post contains links TZTriStar500 : Please check Reply 18 of this thread: Midwest 717 Retirement Dates? (by COERJ145 Sep 10 2009 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4546501&searchid=4547099&s=T
82 ASFlyer : All Horizon flights are sold as AS flights operated by Horizon Air. So it makes sense that you could be checking in at an AS counter for a flight ope
83 N7371f : And that date is now November 3. At least that's the day the 717 is done.
84 Cubsrule : ...which is no different from the transition periods for DL/NW or US/HP, and passengers got through those.
85 AirframeAS : That is what I also do not get. If it is on F9 metal using F9 equipment and F9 crews with F9 callsign, how does it make it a YX flight? If you call i
86 Mariner : Midwest does not have A319's. Frontier does have A319's. Midwest pays Frontier to fly the flight for them. If any left over that is profit for Midwes
87 Enilria : The brand that is sold to customers has nothing to do with any of those things. It is simply a choice made by the marketing types...see below. I'm be
88 Mariner : Anything is possible. mariner
89 ExFATboy : Interesting, and for once I got a prediction right! Look for more B6 reaction to WN's attempts to expand in BOS. Well, PHL-BOS is still a stronghold
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