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Oman Air Doubt About The 787  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises/...-des-doutes-sur-le-boeing-787.html

In one word , Oman Air will wait till the 787 flies to know more about it , and if what they expect (security and economy) is not reach they will see with Airbus ,probably A350XWB.
They have great doubt about Boeing to be able to deliver what the 787 should have been when launched and when airlines begann to sign.

They have 6 787s on order.

Very sorry , unable to find a link in English.This article has been written when the Omanair CEO was at Paris.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=17991

Link now in English.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7623 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4052 times:
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Hardly surprising in the circumstances. With the way the whole thing has gone so far there's no way I'd buy one until proven in service.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Looks like Boeing sales team is not handling the situation properly. Looks like they sell and forget the costumors. In such a situation it would be wise to keep the costumor informed and to actively see how to help them with their needs.

Airbus did this extremely well during the difficult times of the A380 delay to keep in touch, keep things transparent and help with rebatted A330 where help was needed - this kept the costumors on board and loyal ( and the A330 lines busy ).


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3883 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
Looks like Boeing sales team is not handling the situation properly.

It may not be that easy for the sales team to explain the technical problems and the delays if the technical team itself is in doubt.
And this is my understanding. Boeing does not communicate because they are not sure about what to commnunicate.
I hope for them that I am wrong.


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3859 times:



Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
In one word , Oman Air will wait till the 787 flies to know more about it , and if what they expect (security and economy) is not reach they will see with Airbus ,probably A350XWB.

They're receiving brand new A330's now, so they'll use this model for quite a while. If the 787 won't be that much better than the A332HGW, it makes economical sense to order these and cancel their relatively small order for 787's. Ordering A350XWB's doesn't seem very logical, they're not available until 2017 and there is no guarantee it will meet spec either.



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User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

I think that is resonable enough.

If I had brought a brand new top-of-the-range Farrari and the thing I bought no longer looked like the thing on the drawing board when I signed for it and then they tell me the wheels don't currently fit onto the axles properly. I think I'm in my rights to tell them I didn't want it anymore.

With so many supply companies with fingers in the pie it must be difficult to know what's going on and who to blame.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

Frigatebird

The 787 will obviously be better than the A332 (A332 HGW doesn't exist) , if it couldn't be the case , why for Boeing to build a plane (787) with revolutionnary technologies not being able to surpass a plane built 10 years before.Not thinkable.
The problem is not to know if the 787 will be better or less good than the A332 (It will be better) , but the question remains if it will be what it was supposed to be when launched.

For Oman Air , if the 787 has inferior performances than expected , first they could buy more A332s (Or A333s) to respect their growing plan , and later to switch to a still better performer , namely the A350XWB.

In another way , in the article , Omanair CEO said , they will buy A321s.
Will be the very first time they will get Airbus NB (The A320 they had was only leased) , thus turning their head a little bit more far from Boeing , as they already have 737NGs.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Quoting Breiz (Reply 4):
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
Looks like Boeing sales team is not handling the situation properly.

It may not be that easy for the sales team to explain the technical problems and the delays if the technical team itself is in doubt.
And this is my understanding. Boeing does not communicate because they are not sure about what to commnunicate.
I hope for them that I am wrong.

Big mistake on the part of Boeing if this is true. Better to maintain regular contact with the customer, even if you have little additional information, otherwise they will make decisions based on a combination of incessant rumours, and their own fertile imaginations.

[Edited 2009-09-25 06:58:00]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29671 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3584 times:
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Oman signed their lease with ALAFCO in September 2007, so I expect the monthly rent on their 787s reflects the strong demand for both aircraft and that model and are therefore quite high. So this could just be an attempt by Oman Air to get ALAFCO to lower those rates by threatening to cancel due to "performance and safety issues".

ALAFCO has been reducing their 787 order as airlines have cancelled their deals (like Kuwait Airways canceling their 12 when the government refused to fund the deal), so Oman may feel that ALAFCO is in a weaker position and more susceptible to re-negotiation.


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1798 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

My understanding is that things were quite chaotic at Boeing over the past 3 years. I don't think it's the sales team fault entirely but the hair-brained supply chain / risk sharing arrangement that Boeing execs extolled as the new, cheap way to build airplanes. Now, at present, it's turning out that Boeing's burning through cash like crazy through supplier problems, new and frequent engineering problems and through dumping cash on customers in penalties and concessions... at this rate, the launch customer ANA who probably already got a huge discount for being launch customer will get a sizable chunk of their order for free.

I think that Boeing is probably in no position to deliver and customers are right to be skeptical. The plane hasn't even flown yet and the program is nearly a complete disaster. Just open an issue of Flight Global or Aviation Week and you will find a new hiccup every week. I wonder if Boeing engineers lose sleep at night wondering if flight test will be a Pandora's box of unpleasant, delay-causing issues. I suppose any further delays will push Boeing's larger variant the 787-9 well within the A350's entry-to-service window. At that time, air travel demand will have improved significantly and airlines would have no choice but to tear up their contracts with Boeing and go to Airbus or leave their passengers and their bottom lines in the dust.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29671 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2531 times:
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CEO Pham Ngoc Minh, the head of Vietnam Airlines and Vietnam Aircraft Leasing Company, has said he's considering the fare of his sixteen (total) 787s per Reuters.

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