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New USAirways Rumor - First class on RJ's  
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12033 times:

Take this as you read it. I'm just looking for feedback as I think this is a strategic move to compete with other carriers that have already done this. I was told by a ILM agent that US is looking into putting F/C on at least CRJ-900/E-175's to start in the Express system and may d the same on CRJ-700/E-170's later. Has anyone else heard this floating around?

Desmond in ILM,


Desmond MacRae in ILM
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11813 times:

I would say: no need. Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class, leave alone First. Waste of money and a probable loss maker in those economic times.

And Europe domestic is the same as US domestic distance wise for the CRJ's



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4892 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11795 times:

There's a good idea! NW and UA already has a premium cabin on their larger RJs, and I think MQ's doing the same.


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7503 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11769 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
I would say: no need. Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class, leave alone First. Waste of money and a probable loss maker in those economic times.

But they are still two different markets. The US market it the largest air market in the world by far. Premium cabins keep FF happy, and keep in mind that many european carriers "Business" in europe are nothing like F in the US. Many of them just use coach sets with either more legroom or the middle seat blocked, where in the US many of them are actually larger seats and so on.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
And Europe domestic is the same as US domestic distance wise for the CRJ's

I don't know, there are many 3hr flights on CRJ's here in the US.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11730 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
I would say: no need. Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class, leave alone First. Waste of money and a probable loss maker in those economic times.

First in the US is basically business class. Most carriers categorize it as Domestic First. So basically US would be putting a class like they have on their other mainline narrowbody fleet, used for flights in the domestic US, Caribbean and Latin America. What does that offer,

2x2 wider seats, more legroom and better catering.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11684 times:

I don't see this being too far out for US. All of the other majors are doing it so why not.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class

Domestic business class is very profitable in the US.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11538 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):
Domestic business class is very profitable in the US.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Premium cabins keep FF happy

I'm not sure if it's profitable when most seats are occupied with upgrades, milage awards.

Wouldn't economy+, only for full Y and B class fare pax, make more profit? And let FF's buy upgrades for a reasonable price?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

Not a shocker...the E70's and CR7's were actually originally ordered with an F cabin but for some reason US did not follow through with it.

User currently offlineRb211TriStar From United States of America, joined May 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

First Class on RJ's are a huge welcome to business travelers. When I commute to Canada, many of the markets are shared by UAX and ACJ. I will always choose the UA flight over the ACJazz flight if there's a premium cabin.

I think its a good move by US if its true. Just too bad cabin refits take so long sometimes.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10539 times:



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 7):
Not a shocker...the E70's and CR7's were actually originally ordered with an F cabin but for some reason US did not follow through with it.

Actually, that was HP. HP took the F cabin out of the CRJ's wayyy before they became US, IIRC.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 992 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9767 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Actually, that was HP. HP took the F cabin out of the CRJ's wayyy before they became US, IIRC.

They never had E70s, but HPX did remove the F cabins from the CR7s and CR9s in late 2004.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9615 times:



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 10):
They never had E70s

I never said they did....  confused 

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 10):
HPX did remove the F cabins from the CR7s and CR9s in late 2004.

I believe 2001 or 2002. I know this because I flew on a CR9 with Mesa and there was no F cabin. This was in 2003.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9551 times:

This will help make money a few ways:
1. Reduce seat count (slightly) and that should increase the cost per ticket
2. Increased fares from premium cabin

Of course that's assuming the seats aren't filled with free upgrades. It could also impact the service in the back as one FA will be responsible for 70+ passengers in the back of a 900 while the other caters to the 4/6/8 in the front. On a 60-90 minute flight you will not be able to give both groups adequate service.

They could also be doing something like Spirit and their "Big Front Seat". Same service, but you get a bigger seat with more leg room for a few bucks more. That would make more sense than a true premium cabin on the shorter stage lengths.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9483 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):


And Europe domestic is the same as US domestic distance wise for the CRJ's

So? It's not primarily about distances here, it's about market and demand!

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):


I would say: no need. Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class, leave alone First. Waste of money and a probable loss maker in those economic times.

I know you are very fond of the LCC concept, but I have to contradict you in this part. I have regularly been on flights in Europe on premium carriers and Business Class seemed to do quite well. I don't have figures on B/C occupation on continental flights in Europe, but I guess you have neither. So would you please explain and give some arguments on this statement? Have you done market research?



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9359 times:

I'd say this would be a smart move...

UA has added first class to all of its larger regional jets, with much success. I believe DL/NW have now revamped their entire fleet as well. American Eagle will be adding F to all of its CRJ-700s by next year. That leaves CO and US as the only legacies with no F offering. Seeing as how CO does not operate larger RJs, that leaves US as the least desirable carrier because offering F can attract those all-important business pax back to the airline. Let's not forget that routes such as PHL-IAH are pretty long and now only served by US Express aircraft. There are countless other examples of premium markets and longer sectors that were historically served by mainline aircraft until recently, but where demand for F still remains.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9079 times:
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Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
I would say: no need. Europe proves that domestic can't even sustain business class

Which is why one of the first changes LH is going to bring to SN is the return of a premium cabin upfront on European flights.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8761 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):

Domestic business class is very profitable in the US.



Quoting KL911 (Reply 6):
I'm not sure if it's profitable when most seats are occupied with upgrades, milage awards.

Exactly what I was going to say.......that's whats going to happen anyway the upgrades, FFs not much revenue, now the cost of retrofit, FA just for first etc. nonetheless go for it on the CR9s, CR7s and E175s



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8327 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
UA has added first class to all of its larger regional jets, with much success. I believe DL/NW have now revamped their entire fleet as well. American Eagle will be adding F to all of its CRJ-700s by next year.

All DL CR7s lack F; AFAIK, there has not been a plan announced to equip them with F.

I wonder whether US would be well-served to do what DL has done, actually. The 175s are supposed to fly longer routes, so put F on them and leave the CR7s on shorter routes as all-Y. F isn't going to be a big demand driver on CLT-CAE; it might be on IAH-PHL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 992 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8160 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 10):
They never had E70s

I never said they did....   

Well, the person you quoted said E70s and CR7s.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):

I believe 2001 or 2002. I know this because I flew on a CR9 with Mesa and there was no F cabin. This was in 2003.

I flew a CR9 from GEG to PHX in January 2004 and it did have the F cabin. I don't think HPX even had CR9s until 2003.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8086 times:



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 18):
Well, the person you quoted said E70s and CR7s.

Correct. But I did not talk about the EJets. I talked about the CRJ's, hence as to why I said 'CR9'.

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 18):
flew a CR9 from GEG to PHX in January 2004 and it did have the F cabin.

You may very well have flown on a different CR9.

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 18):
I don't think HPX even had CR9s until 2003.

They started getting them in 2003, that is why I said "2003".



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Given the coach seats in jut about any RJ that feels flat and hard as stone after about an hour, I flew F on US from PHX/GDL and back several times in the early part of the decade. The comfort was well worth it in their first class on the RJs at the time.

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7071 times:
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Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
I don't know, there are many 3hr flights on CRJ's here in the US.

Maybe not exactly 3 hours but close. Delta Connection has a few especially from ATL to small markets in upstate NY and to the west.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 992 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6965 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
They started getting them in 2003, that is why I said "2003".

Then don't say they were removed in 2001 or 2002, because the CR7s and CR9s that were delivered with F cabins didn't start arriving until 2002. They stopped arriving with the F cabins sometime in 2003 IIRC and the rest were converted in 2004.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6828 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Actually, that was HP. HP took the F cabin out of the CRJ's wayyy before they became US, IIRC.

No, I meant US....see:

http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...story/05-12-2003/0001944701&EDATE=

"Under the Bombardier agreement, US Airways has firm orders for 60 CRJ
Series 200, 50-seat single-class aircraft; and 25 CRJ Series 700, 75-seat
dual-class aircraft
. The 50-seat order for the CRJ Series 200 aircraft is
scheduled to be delivered beginning in October 2003 to US Airways Express
wholly owned subsidiary PSA Airlines. All firm order CRJ aircraft will be
delivered by April 2005.
US Airways also has placed firm orders for 85 Embraer 170, 70-seat, dual
class aircraft
, with the first delivery scheduled for November 2003 to
MidAtlantic Airways, a regional jet division of US Airways, Inc. US Airways
has the option to convert the Embraer 170s to Embraer 175s with 76 seats. All
Embraer 170 deliveries are to be received by September 2006."


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6820 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 6):
I'm not sure if it's profitable when most seats are occupied with upgrades, milage awards.

Wouldn't economy+, only for full Y and B class fare pax, make more profit? And let FF's buy upgrades for a reasonable price?

What exactly do you do in the industry?
I happen to work with real numbers and data that proves your completely wrong. My statement can be backed up by the fact that these domestic first cabins are being added to regional aircraft at the worlds largest airlines. If the numbers proved your baseless claim they would be pulling first rather than adding it.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 16):

Exactly what I was going to say.......that's whats going to happen anyway the upgrades, FFs not much revenue, now the cost of retrofit, FA just for first etc. nonetheless go for it on the CR9s, CR7s and E175s

You were also going to say that you know better than the people with actual numbers?

I have always found that the only people complaining about FF's and our business and first cabins are people that can't afford to fly up there. Our most valued passengers, the passengers that generate enough revenue to keep airlines profitable are people who travel enough to understand the value of a premium cabin.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
25 N7371f : The problem with this is...the guy running the airline, Scott Kirby, made a long statement shortly after the F cabins were yanked from the Mesa CR7 an
26 PSA727 : I think US needs to do this more to supplement their international feed at PHL and CLT, than for domestic-only purposes. If US can only offer a premiu
27 Ca2ohhp : As long as the scope clause permits 86 seats in the CR9/E175 it is very unlikely US will put F class on the existing fleet. My guess is only if they w
28 NWADC9 : HP was nothing more than a national carrier, not the transcontinental legacy carrier US is. I'm sure his tune will change now that transatlantic flig
29 Cessnapilot172 : SCOPE. This will not happen with the current USAPA contract scope. No Express aircraft are permitted to fly with first class seats. Now if the pilots
30 Silentbob : Their current scope also prevents Q400s.
31 Byrdluvs747 : You seem to be forgetting history. HP had codeshares with BA, TW, QF, RJ, VS and CO. So they did utilize the F seats on RJ's.
32 Cubsrule : The 175s might have the most comfortable Y seats in the entire mainline and Express fleet.
33 KGAIflyer : Simple answer -- no. Most of the folks I know who fly USAir-East also fly AirTran to the same markets and these days regard USAir only as a sloppy se
34 Hondah35 : I hope you are right since by the numbers, at barely one inch wider than coach seats on most regular aircraft, these F seats on RJs seem ridiculous,
35 DeltaL1011man : This is due to scope. IMHO if DL could pack 86 seats on the CR9 like US can DL wouldn't have an F class on them. DL can only put 70 Y seats on the CR
36 Post contains images AirframeAS : I flew on a CR9 on Mesa in 2003 on the TUS-PHX routing. I am pretty sure of it because I wanted to get a chance to fly on a CR9 and I did exactly tha
37 FlyDeltaJets : The -900's and the Ejets have first class because of the pilots contract that limited the amount of seats allowed on DCI aircraft. I think the max al
38 Cubsrule : I don't follow. Installing F would decrease the number of seats.
39 DeltaL1011man : right, unlike the CR9, the CR7s max seat number is 70. The CR9 in Y could get to at least 86 seats. DL wont put F on the CR7s because they can fly th
40 Cubsrule : The 170s have F...
41 FutureFO : The DL E170's are configured with F seats as well as the 175's. However on US there is no plan to install F on any of the RJ's.
42 Viscount724 : Assume you mean first class. Unless it's changed recently, few US carriers offer a product called business class on domestic routes, except on a few
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