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NW A330 Sent To Storage?  
User currently offlineTimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20949 times:
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I noticed a flight yesterday that caught me by surprise.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...0/history/20090926/1323Z/KDTW/KMZJ

It appears a NW A330-300 flew to MZJ, where typically aircraft go for long-term storage. Any idea why this might be? I know there had been talk of putting some 747-400s in temporary storage, but why a new aircraft like the A333 which could be used many places in the new DL system?

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1249 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20796 times:

Maybe for repainting ???


Fly easyJet
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20636 times:

According to Worldflight, 3304 is already in DL colors...

It also says that yesterday's flight was a "reposition to park."



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20508 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 2):
It also says that yesterday's flight was a "reposition to park."

hmm most unusual. Any chance it could be some sort of MX thing? New Interiors? Leather seat covers or new business class etc?


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20467 times:
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Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 2):
According to Worldflight, 3304 is already in DL colors...

Sure enough....


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User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20398 times:



Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 1):
Maybe for repainting ???

They were painted at VCV.

Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 2):
It also says that yesterday's flight was a "reposition to park."

Parking a 330, why?



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6742 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20144 times:



Quoting Timf (Thread starter):
Any idea why this might be? I know there had been talk of putting some 747-400s in temporary storage, but why a new aircraft like the A333 which could be used many places in the new DL system?

My guess would be winter schedule reductions. The A330-300 has a lot of seats to fill during the low season. The 777's do as well, but they're just about entirely on routes that require the 777's range.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20106 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Quoting Timf (Thread starter):
Any idea why this might be? I know there had been talk of putting some 747-400s in temporary storage, but why a new aircraft like the A333 which could be used many places in the new DL system?

My guess would be winter schedule reductions. The A330-300 has a lot of seats to fill during the low season.

But, doesn't DL normally store airplanes at VCV and ROW? Are there going to be more A-330s parked by DL at MZJ, or anywhere else?


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8286 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19993 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
My guess would be winter schedule reductions. The A330-300 has a lot of seats to fill during the low season.

Indeed odd, They are comparable to the 764's and one would think that the A333 is a more efficient aircraft. The A330 has fewer business class seats but more economy class seats though.


User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1906 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19964 times:



Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 5):
Parking a 330, why?

Very basic ecnomics..it is not needed in service right now. Biz is slow in Sept., Oct and most of November..and even the first 2 weeks of Dec....
so, why schedule it for money losing flights whenn it is cheaper to part it for a few weeks..or even until spring if needed.

Conrtarary to the political spin, the economy for travel is still fairly soft and quite price sensitive.


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3499 posts, RR: 66
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19716 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 8):
Indeed odd, They are comparable to the 764's and one would think that the A333 is a more efficient aircraft.

The A333 has 21% more seats than the 764. For roughly comparable seats:

NW A333

Business seats: 34
Economy seats: 264
Total seats: 298

DL 764

Business seats: 40
Economy seats: 206
Total seats: 246

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Nor...Northwest_Airlines_Airbus_A330.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_767-400_B.php

If you're carrying 764 loads in an A333, it won't be more efficient.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19526 times:



Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 9):
Biz is slow in Sept., Oct and most of November..and even the first 2 weeks of Dec....

There are even days over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend where the a/c on some routes have been temporarily downgraded for the slowest travel days of that period, Thursday and Friday. I know ATL-LAS-ATL over those dates see all of the 763 domestic a/c downgraded to 752s and one 752 flight is downgraded to a 738.

In some ways, wouldn't it have made more sense to temporarily park some 763ERs instead and maybe use that time to repaint and refurbish those that need to be done?


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7116 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19357 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
In some ways, wouldn't it have made more sense to temporarily park some 763ERs instead and maybe use that time to repaint and refurbish those that need to be done?

The logistics may come into play here, we see the A330 as just a better a/c than the 767 so the latter should be parked, we do not consider the current routes that the a/c fly, crew bases since the crew are not interchangeable - pilots more so than F/A's, its quicker to get the F/A's re-certified -, gate space are all existing gates DL uses for it's 767 capable of taking the 330 without any modifications, cargo containers, etc. etc. these miscellaneous cost may also make it easier to simply park the a/c.

I won't get into parking the DC-9 versus the 330, we all know that a DC-9 was sent to pick up the pilots who flew the 330 to the shed  Smile


User currently offlineKL642 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 350 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19251 times:

This doesn't surprise me. Since the start of September I have noticed alot of NW/DL aircraft parked @ MSP. An A332 (N855NW) was parked behind the cargo building for about 2 weeks. Then earlier this week it was gone and now they have 3 A319's parked back there as of yesterday. Anybody know where 855NW is now?
Alex


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7536 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 18653 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):

My guess would be winter schedule reductions. The A330-300 has a lot of seats to fill during the low season. The 777's do as well, but they're just about entirely on routes that require the 777's range.

It still wouldnt make sense to park it, they have plenty of space in DTW and MSP to let the aircraft sit at their hangers, especially in case an A330 goes tech or something.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 18503 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
It still wouldnt make sense to park it, they have plenty of space in DTW and MSP to let the aircraft sit at their hangers, especially in case an A330 goes tech or something.

you can't keep an aircraft as a "hot" spare without keeping up alot of maintenance on it. If you aren't going to fly the fleet hard enough to justify keeping them all in service, the only option is to temporarily ground some of them.

Grounding particular a/c for short periods of time says nothing about the particular aircraft or type or the airline, but it can save alot of cash on maintenance by deferring heavy work that needs to be done.

Parking older, smaller a/c doesn't accomplish that goal. Maintenance costs and the a/c size are specfic to each aircraft. If you don't need that a/c and its size or you want to defer its costs, parking other a/c doesn't accomplish that.

This a/c will return to service.... in some cases, DL has parked a/c for as few as a couple months.


User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 809 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 18048 times:
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What seems strange to me is that they would park an A333 that is already in new DL colors, why not park one that is in NW colors and possibly paint it while it's in storage?

I would think the marketing aspect of that aircraft is pretty huge since they have already taken the time and funds to paint it.

My thoughts,
John


User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17869 times:
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Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 2):
According to Worldflight, 3304 is already in DL colors...

What is Worldflight?  old 


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17796 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
It still wouldnt make sense to park it, they have plenty of space in DTW and MSP to let the aircraft sit at their hangers, especially in case an A330 goes tech or something.

The airlines do not have the expertise in storing and restoring aircraft that the aircraft storage facilities do.

Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 16):
What seems strange to me is that they would park an A333 that is already in new DL colors, why not park one that is in NW colors and possibly paint it while it's in storage?

It may be up against a check and DL may not have the manpower, facility or money to accomplish the check at the present time.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17480 times:

They could have sent it to MUC instead of the 764ER, after all it's Oktoberfest time!
US has done so on the PHL-MUC route in previous years, replacing the usual 762ER by an A333. However, this doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Americans travelling less?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineTimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17259 times:
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Quoting KL642 (Reply 13):
Anybody know where 855NW is now?

It is in VCV being repainted.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17091 times:

Sad to hear of NW's best product sitting in the desert.

Quoting Timf (Thread starter):
I noticed a flight yesterday that caught me by surprise.

I saw that too, and I feared the worst--storage.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But, doesn't DL normally store airplanes at VCV and ROW? Are there going to be more A-330s parked by DL at MZJ, or anywhere else?

DL has switched to MZJ now. I think it was something they took from the NW side of things. VCV seems kinda full anyway.  

Quoting KL642 (Reply 13):
Anybody know where 855NW is now?

855 would have been next on the paint line

[Edited 2009-09-27 12:39:38]

User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 864 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

How do they decide what particular frame would be painted? Would it be at all logistically possible, instead of temporarily parking an aircraft, to have more than one being painted at the same time? That way, the time will be more effectively used, instead of just having the aircraft parked. That said, I am nowhere in the know of how that works, so in reality it may not be that feasible.


Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16739 times:



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 21):
VCV seems kinda full anyway.

VCV is hardly full, there is quite a bit more land around the airport.

FX1816


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 16452 times:



Quoting FX1816 (Reply 23):
VCV is hardly full, there is quite a bit more land around the airport.

It was spoken partly in jest. I have no clue if it is or not, but the pictures of the main parking square has the planes looking like sardines!


25 KC135TopBoom : But the week leading up to Thanksgiving and Christmas, and the weekend after them are traditionally the heaviest flying days of the year for the airl
26 FX1816 : Yeah the parking lot that they made a few years back is pretty full but there is quite a bit more space than that. I was really surprised though that
27 Srbmod : I'm quite aware of that, as I'm an ex-ramper. It just seems odd to downgrade service on a route for the two slowest days. Then again, it may be bette
28 71Zulu : On the 332's, they just went in order. 3351 - N851NW 3352 - N852NW 3353 - N853NW have already been painted. 3354 - N854NW has been in VCV since 9/14
29 Lightsaber : As already noted, its tough. Routes must be cut. So we will see a mix of aircraft parked. That's how it should be. 1. Poor weather for storing aircra
30 C767P : If it is N804NW, what a way to celebrate a birthday, six years to the day (9/26) it was delivered to NW.
31 A342 : Interesting, on the A330/340, a thorough mx check is due after 6 years (but not the heaviest, which is at 12-year intervals).
32 Josh32121 : Touchy topic, for sure, but I believe the consensus is that while the 747-400 may be the flagship (in that it's the largest capacity aircraft in the
33 BmiBaby737 : I thought the "best" product was on the 767-400?
34 Airbazar : Like I said, fewer business class seat and more Y seats. You also need a higher LF on the 764 to match the efficiency of an A333. As far as reveue po
35 Sankaps : How much do these medium and heavy checks typically cost? Must be a lot if it is cheaper to ground an aircraft while still paying the lease payments.
36 Dtw757 : Sad they are parking ship 3304. I took my first A330 flight on this aircraft from DTW-FRA just 2 months after her delivery in 2003. I hope she'll be b
37 DeltaL1011man : They have been doing both. Most of the DAL-S parked planes are at VCV with a few 757s at MZJ. IIRC all DAL-N planes have gone to MZJ. Could be a numb
38 Kevin752 : WorldFlight .. Is the NWA OPS system
39 JohnClipper : Anybody know which A330 is in SIN getting painted?
40 Levg79 : This is classic On a serious note, anyone knows how the pilots are really getting back? I'd laugh if DC-9 is really picking them up. Leo.
41 WorldTraveler : The paint job is a long term investment; it's not being flushed down the drain. The issue is maintenance costs that would otherwise have to be paid N
42 NWAESC : Wordflight is to ESE's what Sceptre and EMMA were to you...
43 DeltaL1011man : huh? then why did Delta paint 727s in Leo paint sometimes weeks before sending them to there deaths? paint means nothing. While this bird will be bac
44 Nwarooster : Thanks, I have retired since before the "strike" and bankruptcy.
45 YULWinterSkies : I also think that DL should park these old outdated 744s instead of a newer A330. Same as UA and AF, the 747 at DL may be a flagship from outside, it
46 UAL747DEN : So many things wrong with this statement! Space: Floor space in hangars is extremely valuable and extra space is not a reality. It is very expensive
47 WorldTraveler : Airlines DO know how to store aircraft. It's just that DTW, MSP, ATL or most of the eastern US is not conducive to to aircraft storage. There's a rea
48 Airbuske : 1 more A330 will be parked in the coming weeks. I'll try and get the reg number.
49 CrimsonNL : Any clue at all for how long she'll be grounded?
50 Airbuske : Update : 3305 will also head to MZJ around 30OCT09.
51 Airbuske : I don't know for how long but I suspect that it has to do with the fact that both airplanes are due for their H checks. On a side note, 3310 is sched
52 Lightsaber : Hangar space is pricey and at a premium. I'm familiar with A,B,C, and D checks. What is a "H check?" Did you mean 'heavy check?' As in 'D-check?' If
53 Burnsie28 : I never said keep them in the hanger. NW often had spare aircraft at their hubs, usually 2-3 extra planes (for DC-9's and Airbus') just in case that
54 MSPNWA : Spirit of Lindbergh. Anyone know if that will stay?
55 Airbuske : Yes, an H check is a D check. From what I have been told, eons ago when NWA incorporated the corrosion prevention program into their check schedule,
56 Lotsamiles : I am familiar with the NW 757 maintenance program: L check - light check (similar to C check in MRB) L2 check - light check (similar to 2C check in M
57 Lightsaber : Thank you both for the details. Either way, when a H or M is due... in this environment its preserve cash time. To say the least, my opinion on other
58 UAL747DEN : Yes you did, you said exactly that. I added the bold but other than that this is your exact quote. Your statement is very clear. I have never worked
59 BmiBaby737 : In all fairness to Burnsie28, he said "AT" and not "IN" At meaning the surrounding area of the hangars, In meaning inside the hangars.
60 DeltaL1011man : the 77L and the 76D are the nicest planes in the fleet.
61 UAL747DEN : I still think the statement clearly says he expected the A330 to be stored in the hangar. If his statement was that he thought the aircraft should be
62 Nwarooster : Prior to my retirement, Northwest had spare DC-9s as they were paid for and were not that costly to use some as spares. They did the same with the ot
63 Nwaesc : I took it to mean "out behind the hangars," too. I imagine most people that work for NW might've thought the same, simply because it's been such a co
64 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yes, they still do, particularly with the DC-9 fleet. They don't schedule the aircraft as a 'spare' but they will build slack into the schedule where
65 Post contains links Tristarcrazy : According to Widgetheads.net, 3304 is stored till Jan 2010 and to SIN for heavy check. http://www.widgetheads.net/fleet/news.php
66 UAL747DEN : This is very interesting to me, I would like to learn more. Most airlines allow for some slack in the schedule, that is normal, but to have an aircra
67 DeltaL1011man : i would say spring
68 ORDnHKG : It is more than flagship, it is about the range, is 330 able to do DTW-NRT or MSP-NRT ? No. 330 is an aircraft design for medium haul like 767. 744 r
69 A342 : The A332 IS able to fly DTW-NRT, in fact, NW has used it on that route for some time.
70 Albnwa4 : Cash cows to Asia...Whales are oversold everyday out of DTW/ATL MSP maybe 5 out of 7 days a week. Not to mention all the cargo revenue. Cash cows....
71 WorldTraveler : 77L seats don't do that... the 767 seat is designed as you mention. There is nothing about the 777 that is not state of the art. Every lie flat seat
72 Pqdtw : Never. It's ALWAYS been a 744. A 742 was subbed occasionally during the 90's if one of the 744 went mx, but there has never been a 332 on MSP or DTW-
73 OldAeroGuy : But the airplane being parked is an A333.
74 Post contains links A342 : I don't have the exact schedule any more, but I'm 99% sure that the A332 was used on DTW-NRT about two years ago. I wondered about it myself back the
75 DeltaL1011man : Just to note QF does have a 73K engine while NW only has a 70K. While it doesn't mean much it does mean something.
76 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW has NEVER regularly scheduled an A332 on DTW-NRT. period. end of story. I don't even thing they have ever sub'd and A332 on DTW-NRT, ever. Prior t
77 SESGDL : Never. DTW-NRT has been operated with either 747-200s or 747-400s since the route began. Same with MSP-NRT. Jeremy
78 Pqdtw : Umm..hello. I AM an NWA expert. Until transferring to ATL this spring, I was based at DTW as a NW flight attendant for 20 years. I can tell you that
79 WorldTraveler : The engine only matters in terms of climbout performance and runway length. DTW has more than enough runway for a fully loaded 332. Just because NW h
80 Pqdtw : oh, no lion's den at all. Having been through one merger already at the beginning of my career, this one is going really well. I have to hand it to D
81 WorldTraveler : That's great to hear!
82 CokePopper : I second that! Great to hear! Welcome!
83 B727LVR : DL dosn't have any aircraft in ROW. They crunched the last of the NW 727's while I was working there in 2007. UPS had some MD-11's there that were st
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