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DL 763ER Winglets To Get New Seats And Avod?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6557 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

From rumors that I have heard, DL will be installing new seats and AVOD on their 30 763ERs that have or will get winglets. I have heard that BusinessElite will get the Thompson Vantage flat-bed seats, while Y will get the Weber 5751 slimline seats (presumably with winged headrests). I have read that the Thompson Cozy Suite project in Y is dead BTW.

If these rumors are true, this will give DL a more competitive product on their longer 763ER routes. However, I also would like to see DL update the interiors on them to the Boeing Signature interior like on the 764ER fleet.

Can anyone confirm these rumors?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravelExec From Spain, joined Dec 2007, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6389 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
installing new seats and AVOD

Very interesting - has the IFE system been chosen already?


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2363 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6368 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
DL update the interiors on them to the Boeing Signature interior like on the 764ER fleet.

I couldn't agree with you more with that. The Signature interior and new seats will give that plane a bit more of a "modern" feel to it.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

Where did you hear these rumors? If it's a reliable source, I'll be very excited, because this is something that needs to be done. The 763ER is a very important aircraft for the Delta fleet, and I can't see it going anywhere any time soon.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6317 times:



Quoting TravelExec (Reply 1):
Very interesting - has the IFE system been chosen already?

As far as I know, it hasn't been chosen yet. Really, the only two realistic options are Panasonic and Thales. Rockwell Collins is unlikely, as DL dropped them in favor of Panasonic. In fact, the old Rockwell Collins TES IFE that the 772ER had was actually upgradeable to AVOD, but DL chose to go an alternative route and install the Panasonic eFX system.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2828 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6317 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
DL update the interiors on them to the Boeing Signature interior like on the 764ER fleet.

I couldn't agree with you more with that. The Signature interior and new seats will give that plane a bit more of a "modern" feel to it.

I'm sure you would like it, but what's the ROI?


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6306 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
The Signature interior and new seats will give that plane a bit more of a "modern" feel to it.

I cant see them doing the signature interior, tbh. Maybe they could spruce up the side-walls. paint the bins and remove the LCD's/CRTs, but that would be about it, I would think. The cost of the seats and IFE system in itself is probably investment enough in ageing aircraft.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6286 times:

Would be excellent to see them do this... I for one would be more inclined to fly DL over the Atlantic!

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

One of the major considerations regarding the 763ER fleet is that DL right now has more widebody, int'l capacity than it needs. The decision will clearly be made public about which a/c will be reduced from the fleet.
Although people like to pick on the 763ER, my guess is that 744s will be the first to removed en masse from the DL fleet. The 744 is the highest cost aircraft in the DL/NW fleet to operate on a trip basis AND DOT data shows that is also has the highest CASM of any of their int'l aircraft types.
If 744s begin to be retired, the 763ER gains another lease on life. It makes sense for DL then to begin upgrading the interiors of the 763ER since alot less will need to be spent doing the same thing on the 744s.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25457 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6132 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
DL update the interiors on them to the Boeing Signature interior like on the 764ER fleet.

I couldn't agree with you more with that. The Signature interior and new seats will give that plane a bit more of a "modern" feel to it.

Not 1 in 1000 passengers cares about that sort of thing. Spending that kind of money in today's airline economic environment would be a poor use of resources.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17537 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6024 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I have read that the Thompson Cozy Suite project in Y is dead BTW.

I've been hearing that for a while so that wouldn't surprise me.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5648 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
One of the major considerations regarding the 763ER fleet is that DL right now has more widebody, int'l capacity than it needs. The decision will clearly be made public about which a/c will be reduced from the fleet.
Although people like to pick on the 763ER, my guess is that 744s will be the first to removed en masse from the DL fleet. The 744 is the highest cost aircraft in the DL/NW fleet to operate on a trip basis AND DOT data shows that is also has the highest CASM of any of their int'l aircraft types.
If 744s begin to be retired, the 763ER gains another lease on life. It makes sense for DL then to begin upgrading the interiors of the 763ER since alot less will need to be spent doing the same thing on the 744s.

 checkmark 

This makes perfect sense. With all the cutbacks, will DL now have more flexibility to change a/c on the 744 routes with the 77Es. One route that comes to mind immediately is LAX-NRT. By changing the a/c to a 77E they will be upgrading their inflight product greatly. As it is, JL is changing to the 77W, UA is flying the 77E and the rumors are SQ will fly the 77W until traffic picks back up to warrant the 388. KE has been flying the 77E and NH the 77W for quite sometime now.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

LAX-NRT simply doesn't make sense with a 744 given that there is nonstop service from LAX to a number of key Asian destinations on other airlines; DL will clearly not get the highest revenue on those routes when competing against other carriers who are flying nonstop. still, NW has the highest average fares on LAX-NRT of AA and UA because of NW's presence in Japan.

The reality is that the 332 and even the 763ER can successfully fly LAX-Japan year round. DL could use the 772ER but there is no need to tie up a plane that could be used for other routes from the interior US to Asia or from LAX deeper into Asia. You will see the 744 stay on LAX-NRT until DL starts another route or two from LAX-Asia and then you are likely to see a 332 to NRT and a 772 to somewhere else. The 763ER works as a transpac a/c but you are more likely going to see it flying from the Pacific NW to NE Asia to develop new routes.

As DL adds new routes overflying NRT and adds more gateways from the eastern US to Japan, there is less of a need for a/c as large as the 744 from multiple markets, including double daily flights as has been seen from ATL, DTW, and MSP on occassion.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Passengers do care about interiors. It is a myth that passengers don't favor European and Asian carriers based on newer aircraft and a better in-flight product. Legacy airlines (not to include Continental) are always scrimping on their passenger environment. Yes, the passengers do notice. Upgrading / maintaining or even merely cleaning aircraft is not something that needs to survive ROI analysis. It has to be done because passengers occupy and wear out the aircraft interiors. It is a wear item, not a special capital investment.

User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3298 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5302 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
Legacy airlines (not to include Continental) are always scrimping on their passenger environment.

What has CO done besides buy new planes? Nothing I've noticed. I'd say that several other carriers have invested far more money in the existing fleet than CO...DL, for sure.

CO is adding LiveTV now, but they are several years behind DL on that.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19786 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5245 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
Upgrading / maintaining or even merely cleaning aircraft is not something that needs to survive ROI analysis.

In the U.S. that's exactly what happens. Basic amenities that we all thought were part of good business now have to survive ROI analysis.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5229 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
It is a myth that passengers don't favor European and Asian carriers based on newer aircraft and a better in-flight product.

It is also a myth that US airlines always fare poorer in surveys based on cabin cleanliness and cabin amenities. There are studies which are done on an ongoing basis and DL does NOT score disproportionately lower than European or Asian airlines. In addition, many of the routes where the 763ER flies are routes where DL provides service which wouldn't be provided without DL's 763ERs. In-flight TV or AVOD is not even a consideration if DL provides the only nonstop service between the US and that country... and there are a whole lot of markets where the 767 serves that purpose. IN other cases, the 767 is used on routes where the draw of the hub on one end is far stronger than the presence or absence of IFE>

It also is incorrect to assume that any other carrier - US or European has an entire fleet that is superior to every aircraft in another carrier's fleet. Every carrier has aircraft with levels of amenities that are mixed relative to competitors.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
Upgrading / maintaining or even merely cleaning aircraft is not something that needs to survive ROI analysis.

and there is a thread about cabin service going on right now. The reality is that DL does have one of the most extensive cabin refurbishment and cabin cleaning programs in the industry.


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

Hmmmm. Must be some pretty big winglets to have seats and AVOD!  duck 

MD


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17537 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5179 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
In the U.S. that's exactly what happens. Basic amenities that we all thought were part of good business now have to survive ROI analysis.



Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
It is a myth that passengers don't favor European and Asian carriers based on newer aircraft and a better in-flight product. Legacy airlines (not to include Continental) are always scrimping on their passenger environment. Yes, the passengers do notice. Upgrading / maintaining or even merely cleaning aircraft is not something that needs to survive ROI analysis.

Uh, why not? Would you spend money on something if you never expected to get it back? If so I'd like you to invest in my bank account. All those European and Asian carriers are starting to reconsider their services as they face ever more competition whether it's 10 abreast in Y on AF/KL, dropping business class intra Europe, added fees at BA, or buy onboard at IB, or reduced catering across the board. In fact I don't think a single major EU carrier offers the a.net holy grail of PTVs on short haul flights, while at least three US carriers do.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19786 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5170 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 14):

What has CO done besides buy new planes? Nothing I've noticed.

Serve hot meals on domestic flights. Generally engage in good business practices. Installed AVOD on both domestic and international fleets. Keep clean, bright, modern interiors.

I could tell you about flying SFO-SYD a year ago on a UA 744 with an interior that looked to be the original interior that was delivered with that A/C complete with flickering, distorted CRT TV monitors, and printer paper replacing a projection screen on a bulkhead (the projector was one of those Jurassic things with the three different R/G/B lenses). Why did I pay UA for this flight? Because I didn't pay for it; it was an MP award. But it did ensure that the next time I need to get to Australia (on my dime), I'll be flying with QF.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5148 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
763ER can successfully fly LAX-Japan

Not with any cargo.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
LAX-NRT simply doesn't make sense with a 744

My updates go till 3/22/10 on Delta's flight opps yet i see the 744 running LAX-NRT the whole time. Are you disagreeing whith Delta? While Feb and Mar aren't done yet Nov,Dec and likely Jan is set now. How do you know it is dumb? Lets see the data (as in the P&Ls) that say the flight needs a down grade.



yep.
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3298 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5022 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
In the U.S. that's exactly what happens. Basic amenities that we all thought were part of good business now have to survive ROI analysis.

Quite true. As the legacy Asian and European carriers transition to the deregulated, intensive LCC-impacted industry that the U.S. carriers have dealt with for the past 30 years, they will find themselves making many of the same tough decisions.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

Uh, why not? Would you spend money on something if you never expected to get it back? If so I'd like you to invest in my bank account. All those European and Asian carriers are starting to reconsider their services as they face ever more competition whether it's 10 abreast in Y on AF/KL, dropping business class intra Europe, added fees at BA, or buy onboard at IB, or reduced catering across the board. In fact I don't think a single major EU carrier offers the a.net holy grail of PTVs on short haul flights, while at least three US carriers do.

Mav, I agree with you completely. BA and CX have publicly questioned whether they will be able to continue to offer the same level of amenities they traditionally have. Each of those carriers was traditionally protected in its home market. They even did well as their markets began to liberalize. But the double whammy of more competition and a bad economic environment is doing to them (and many others) what the same circumstances did to U.S. carriers over the past 30 years of deregulation.

It is unfortunate to say, but in the end this is still mostly a commodity business. A few carriers will prosper catering to the premium end of the market. But most will have to adjust to the new reality, which includes the likes of Air Asia, EasyJet, WizzAir, Volaris, Azul, etc...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):

Serve hot meals on domestic flights. Generally engage in good business practices. Installed AVOD on both domestic and international fleets. Keep clean, bright, modern interiors.

So of that list, CO generally has a superior catering program. CO has like one domestic aircraft with AVOD at this point. Every Delta MD88 looks brighter and more modern inside than every CO 737-500. How many CO aircraft offer WiFi? And engaging in "good business practices" is pretty damn subjective, no?

The point is that CO's product is good, but the original statement that all the rest "scrimp" on passenger environment isn't really fair. I can absolutely assure you that Delta has invested more real dollars in its aircraft in terms of passenger experience than Continental has. Scrimping is a world that would not apply to the investments that Delta has made with cabin reconditioning, bin enlargement, sidewall/bulkhead/lav replacement and refurbishment, new seat covers, new carpet, new seats for 738/76S, AVOD with TV, WiFI. I mean, I admire CO's product, but at least one other U.S. carrier has invested a fortune in its fleet over the past 5-7 years.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4904 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
In fact I don't think a single major EU carrier offers the a.net holy grail of PTVs on short haul flights, while at least three US carriers do

I would like to take a break from our usual sparring to raise a glass to you.  Smile

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
Not with any cargo.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
My updates go till 3/22/10 on Delta's flight opps yet i see the 744 running LAX-NRT the whole time.

First, you cut a segment of my sentence out of the original context. If you wish to do that, you will never be taken seriously as being able to engage in an honest discussion.

Second, the market may well have a 744 in it now and it may stay there through March but that doesn't mean it is there forever....
my point was and still is that as DL builds its presence from LAX-Asia, it will be less and less necessary for them to maintain high seat counts in LAX-NRT. Since DL hasn't YET announced add'l service from LAX-Asia, the 744 stays since DL is not interested in giving up its position of carrying more passengers nonstop from LAX to Asia among AA, DL, and UA.

And the 763ER most certainly can carry cargo in addition to passengers from LAX-Japan. 40K lbs? no. But cargo doesn't usually flow westbound anyway.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):

The point is that CO's product is good, but the original statement that all the rest "scrimp" on passenger environment isn't really fair. I

It's not just un-fair it isn't even accurate.
We can all have our favorites but if it isn't possible to honestly admit that others do something better than your "preferred" carrier, you lose a whole lot of credibility.

CO may have had one of the most aggressive AVOD programs for int'l aircraft - largely the result of them having a fleet that has almost totally been put in service in the past 10 years but DL by far leads the US industry -all of it, not just the network carriers -in electronic onboard amenities. More WiFi, more nose to tail AVOD.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4836 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
my point was and still is that as DL builds its presence from LAX-Asia, it will be less and less necessary for them to maintain high seat counts in LAX-NRT. Since DL hasn't YET announced add'l service from LAX-Asia, the 744 stays since DL is not interested in giving up its position of carrying more passengers nonstop from LAX to Asia among AA, DL, and UA.

ah ok so your guessing again. Now i understand.



yep.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4794 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

Uh, why not? Would you spend money on something if you never expected to get it back?

Sure. All kinds of businesses invest in their carpeting, awnings, and clean their windows because that is what it takes to have a respectable business. When people respect you, they do more business with you.

Does it survive ROI analysis, not in ways that accountants would probably appreciate. General Motors was also a big fan of piecemeal ROI analysis of components (notably, junky interior trim). They believed it was positive ROI to cut their product quality. And in a way, it was (but in other ways not).

It just takes some overall, long-term judgment. Delta is doing a good job upgrading but they still have a long way to go.


25 OA412 : Almost every other airline flying LAX-NRT has gone from 744 flying to 77E or 77W flying. Is it really that much of a leap of faith to assume that DL
26 DeltaL1011man : Where did i say it should stay on LAX-NRT.......nice try though. wait airlines are using 77Ws on LAX-NRT......could that be because maybe, just maybe
27 OA412 : It is still a downgrade in terms of seats. NH has 40 fewer seats in their 77W vs the 744. When JL moves to the 77W, they will also be offering fewer
28 LACA773 : Jumping off a cliff? What? Where did that come from? What it comes down to is economics?. The 77W is a twin that is much more economical to operate.
29 TomFoolery : Interesting stat. How do you determine that? Is that personal knowledge? Look at an aircraft like a hotel. Would you agree that only 1 in 1000 people
30 CokePopper : Agree they will notice but they will be back if the price is right!
31 DeltaL1011man : i guess you never got asked that question. When i was little if i would well Jimmy is doing XXX my Dad (or mom) would say "welll if Jimmy jumped off
32 MaverickM11 : There's a huge difference between cleaning windows and buying costly, heavy, prone-to-breakdown IFE that doesn't generate any return and will be obso
33 Jetlanta : So true. I do think you can detect a difference even among U.S. carriers in terms of cabin wear and tear and cleanliness. CO is quite good. DL used t
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