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Malaysia Airlines Rethink A380  
User currently offlineLeonjunior From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17200 times:

http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_New.../BTIMES/articles/pmas25-2/Article/

Smart move.
Hoping they will swap it to some A330 and A350.

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10032 posts, RR: 96
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17166 times:
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Quoting Leonjunior (Thread starter):
Smart move.

The CEO dismissed the report as unfounded. They may elect to remain a "dumb" airline yet....

Rgds


User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1042 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 17103 times:

I have long expected such move. The whale doesnt make any sense for MAS and was only ordered out of the old competition mentality towards Singapore. MAS has blown its good position in the nineties with lots of stupid political moves and lost any chances to become a major player for a long time.

Its a safe bet we will see a change of that order for 330 and 350 planes. And thats nothing to do with any crisis.



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16999 times:



Quoting Macc (Reply 2):
The whale doesnt make any sense for MAS and was only ordered out of the old competition mentality towards Singapore

I go along with that. MAS is not the same calibre,in any respect, as other A380 operators. There is no way they can be seen as equals to SQ,QF,LH,AF, BA for who this aircraft is essential.

I suggest they ordered it in the hope of buying some cred. If I were them I'd look at buying smaller aircraft of the 777/A350 range and leave the A380 to the big boys.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16991 times:

Hmmm i'll hype until they've done it.

2 things (1) - this got more to do with MAS needing to replace/upgrade aging 744s and to a lesser extent 330s/772s and not being in the best position to afford to?

(2) The A380 really would suit MAS for London and Sydney routes to counteract the threat of Air Asia. A huge economy cabin produced at Low Cost and the ability to carry the premium traffic too is the best way for MAS to compete with Air Asia X on London routes... price is more important then frequency here and for the premium cabins they can use the additional space to offer a stunning product.

A big part of the problem for MAS is a lot of its PAX from europe and Australia who were using the carrier have switched to Emirates. And they are right they are going to need to get more aggressive on frequency. Cities like Brisbane and the South African cities need to at least be daily to be competitive if they want premium class pax.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16809 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
The CEO dismissed the report as unfounded. They may elect to remain a "dumb" airline yet....

Rgds

Looks like a non-denial dismissal though:

Fair use from the OP's link:

""The fact is, we have said that we are planning to replace our wide-body aircraft. Currently, we are evaluating various options to ensure that the aircraft complement our fleet replacement strategy.

"At the same time, we need to match the new aircraft to our network growth plans, especially for key markets such as South Asia, China, Australia and the Middle East. For these key areas, we want to offer our customers increased frequencies for added convenience and better connectivity," Tengku Azmil said through e-mail.

"In the meantime, we continue to evaluate our options on the wide-body aircraft," he said."


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16550 times:

The A330 and A350 seem to be a better fit for what MAS is trying to do.

Quote:
Recent reports on launch customer Singapore Airlines' inability to fully maximise the yields on its A380 were also said to have given MAS cold feet in proceeding with the purchase.

Hmm, wonder what's up with that?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16294 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 3):
I go along with that. MAS is not the same calibre,in any respect, as other A380 operators. There is no way they can be seen as equals to SQ,QF,LH,AF, BA for who this aircraft is essential.

I suggest they ordered it in the hope of buying some cred. If I were them I'd look at buying smaller aircraft of the 777/A350 range and leave the A380 to the big boys.

Funny that you don't mention EK...... Maybe not a big boy but they have ordered quite a few!



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16132 times:

MAS is the VS of Asia....thinks its a big airline, but is really a niche player

This is an airline which cannot guarantee to fill a 744 so god knows what they thought they'd do with a box full of 380's.



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16055 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 3):
I go along with that. MAS is not the same calibre,in any respect, as other A380 operators. There is no way they can be seen as equals to SQ,QF,LH,AF, BA for who this aircraft is essential.

It is necessary to be in a certain "league" before an airline can be a customer for a particular aircraft? Really?

So back then when the B744 was the queen of the skies, it must have been quite an insult that all the above airlines has the likes of Biman, Ethiopian Airlines, Garuda, Iran Air etc etc in their clique?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15956 times:



Quoting Shankly (Reply 8):
MAS is the VS of Asia....thinks its a big airline, but is really a niche player

This is an airline which cannot guarantee to fill a 744 so god knows what they thought they'd do with a box full of 380's.

I also have to wonder how Thai will fill 6 A380s. There have been various postings here about them reevaluating their options.

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 9):
It is necessary to be in a certain "league" before an airline can be a customer for a particular aircraft? Really?

So back then when the B744 was the queen of the skies, it must have been quite an insult that all the above airlines has the likes of Biman, Ethiopian Airlines, Garuda, Iran Air etc etc in their clique?

Iran never operated 744, only 742. Seems like Biman only has 743. Seems Ethiopian only has 747-200F.

In any case, before the 777 and A340s came out, many bought large airplanes for range, not size.

It's no insult to not have the biggest aircraft.

In fact it's more of an insult to have a large aircraft that loses money, IMHO.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15920 times:



Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Iran never operated 744, only 742. Seems like Biman only has 743. Seems Ethiopian only has 747-200F.

Whoops I stand corrected.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15332 times:
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MAS has some LONG routes for which the A330 -200 doesn't have the range for. The A330 would be fine for regional and Aussie flying to KL but not to Europe. The A350 is too far away.

The 777 are the right balance in capacity and range. What MAS really needs are 777-300ER's, they could have 3-class service with 350 seats. MAS should kill First Class and have Business, Prem Economy and Economy.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4738 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15047 times:
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Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 12):
What MAS really needs are 777-300ER's, they could have 3-class service with 350 seats. MAS should kill First Class and have Business, Prem Economy and Economy

That sounds very logical. But there is still the penalty of over $300 Million to pay if they cancel their A380 order.

But a full economy and economy-plus version could be a weapon against the stiff Air Asia competition. So we will have to wait how this will play out. Maybe the A330/A350 combination is the best for them in the long run. But do they have that much time?  scratchchin 


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14803 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 12):
MAS has some LONG routes for which the A330 -200 doesn't have the range for. The A330 would be fine for regional and Aussie flying to KL but not to Europe.

Even with all the recent enhancements to the A330? Is KUL-CDG/AMS out of its range?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14776 times:
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Quoting EPA001 (Reply 13):
That sounds very logical. But there is still the penalty of over $300 Million to pay if they cancel their A380 order.

MAS could order A350-1000 for delivery in 2018 to keep its 300 million as well as 777-300ER NOW.


User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14332 times:



Quoting Leonjunior (Thread starter):
Smart move.
Hoping they will swap it to some A330 and A350.



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 9):
It is necessary to be in a certain "league" before an airline can be a customer for a particular aircraft? Really?

So back then when the B744 was the queen of the skies, it must have been quite an insult that all the above airlines has the likes of Biman, Ethiopian Airlines, Garuda, Iran Air etc etc in their clique?

In some respects, yes. This is not about being "worthy" of such an aircraft as it is being big enough to warrant it. Let's not lose common sense here in place of nostalgia.

The 380 is such a jump in pax load over the original 747. A customer has to have the business to warrant such an airplane. Don't let your love of an airplane mar your judgment as to whether it's right for a certain airline.

This is why they don't let children run candy stores...they would eat away the profits.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineLxmd11 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14142 times:



Quoting Leonjunior (Thread starter):

Stupid or not id love to see a MH whale.

On the other hand it is stupid and i think that switching the order to a330 and a350 would be a good move for them right now.


User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13785 times:

Cancel the A380 then order the 345 and 350-1000. That's the deal! If I was Airbus that's what I'd say.

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13598 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 18):
Cancel the A380 then order the 345 and 350-1000. That's the deal! If I was Airbus that's what I'd say.

It seems Thai has a few A345s that they'd give to MAS for a peanut butter sandwich or two.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13504 times:



Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):


Quoting EbbUK (Reply 18):
Cancel the A380 then order the 345 and 350-1000. That's the deal! If I was Airbus that's what I'd say.

It seems Thai has a few A345s that they'd give to MAS for a peanut butter sandwich or two.


shhh you'll spoil the deal. Airbus have 3 that are going begging.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4738 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13474 times:
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Quoting Lxmd11 (Reply 17):
Stupid or not id love to see a MH whale.

I would like to see it too. But that is doubtfull at the moment. Singapore is clearly the big hub in the region, though KLIA is doing fine. And is a very beautiful airport. But in the North Suvarnabhumi is now also competing with KLIA and Malaysian Airways. If the number of (transfer) passengers is too small, it is difficult to fill the A380. An A350-1000 would make more sense then.  Wink


User currently offlineMeechy36 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13322 times:



Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Iran never operated 744, only 742. Seems like Biman only has
743. Seems Ethiopian only has 747-200F

Iran still operates 747-100's and SP's, both of which have been at Heathrow in the last couple of weeks.


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13082 times:



Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
I also have to wonder how Thai will fill 6 A380s. There have been various postings here about them reevaluating their options.

Yes, but Airbus was reportedly not very willing to let TG swap their A380 for A350's. Which made sense to me, Airbus doesn't want to set any precedent, others (VS, MH, CZ) might possibly like to follow that example. And they'll sell many, many A350's anyway.

So I doubt Airbus will let MH swap their order while snubbing TG in an earlier stage. Although a promise from MH to use A330's and A350's to phase out their 747's and (especially) 777's may be a tempting idea... But, as said, I believe Airbus may land such an order from MH anyway. Just in a later stage.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12557 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
MAS could order A350-1000 for delivery in 2018 to keep its 300 million as well as 777-300ER NOW

You should run MAS! The 773ER is THE plane this airline needs in the next 5 years to run its long haul routes

Only wish it could have a pair of Rollers hung from its wings and then i'd be happy to get on one!



L1011 - P F M
25 VHECA : I would have to agree with most of the posters here and say that the A380 may not be the best option for MH. However, I like the MH product on board a
26 KL911 : They nr one route for MH would be KUL-AMS, also the only A380 chance AMS has at the moment. MH stated previously that AMS would be the first A380 dest
27 777law : This pretty accurately describes all of Malaysia - not just MAS. . . I don't know that Air Asia is the main competition here. Air Asia has what - a c
28 Leonjunior : In the next five years, New A330 would perfectly suit the above routes. Their current products are aging. They would definitely need to replace it so
29 MillwallSean : I find it interesting that so many people are prepared to dismiss MH and sit in far flung corners of the world. Have any of you tried MH or at least l
30 Ryanair!!! : Ah yes... The perrenial debate about MH's A380. Critics are calling the move to have these jumbo jets "dumb" but the airline insists on having them. T
31 Lufthansa : I agree but that is in part because they're not fighting properly. These days, as far as Sydney is concerned, even Thai are more important than MAS.
32 Keesje : Tourism. The article says: "If the swap were to take place, MAS would likely phase out its entire fleet of Boeing wide-body aircraft comprising seven
33 Macc : Sitting in a far flung corner of the world, I have studied MH for my final thesis in University and gained pretty good access to inside information.
34 Allrite : After two absolutely horrible flights in economy with MH SYD-KUL in 2000 I was ready to swear off international air travel for life. They were only m
35 Huaiwei : I could easily challenge this one, but that's for another thread... Again, a disputable comment. MH may face stiff competition from the AirAsia group
36 Behramjee : I think that this an extremely smart move which must have been pressured by Airbus because they have everything to gain by allowing MH to swap their o
37 9MMAR : MH responded to the S&P report, about swapping the 6 A380 with 18+7 A330/A350.
38 Post contains images EPA001 : Well, this is good news I guess. They intend to keep the ordered A380, at least for now.   Let's hope they will take delivery of them when they are
39 Econojetter : If you are talking about 2Q 2009, the airline actually posted an operating loss (about -RM400million). But as they adopted a new accounting standard
40 Ryanair!!! : That has BEEN MH ever since "Enchantment Whenever You Fly" to "Going Beyond Expectations" and finally we arrive at the present "MH, More Than Just An
41 6thfreedom : While the topic is on A380 deliveries, any updates on the narrowbody plans? the B734s are old, tired and dirty. Given the potential short/medium haul
42 Ryanair!!! : That has been taken care of. The 737-800s are slated to take over the -400s and they have a few leased birds to kick start the process. Although the
43 Post contains images Ryanair!!! :
44 MEA : I've flown MH to KUL a few times over the last few years on MH0122 and returned on MH0123 and both B744 flights and both were full. I don't see why th
45 Burkhard : I have no doubt MH needs the A380 at some time. Population as well as wealth are increasing in Southern Malaysia, while space for people is getting ra
46 Babybus : Sorry..I just forgot. They are very big boys indeed and certainly one of the most significant airlines of this century so far. A true A380 operator.
47 Jfk777 : No thinks Cathay is "second class" with no A380's and lots of 77W's, hey getting to JFK nonstop is better then an A380 with a stop.
48 EPA001 : Maybe, but if the A380 has to make a stop, then certainly the B77W with its limited range compared to the A380 needs to make that stop. I fully agree
49 Econojetter : You will find quarterly reports on the MH corporate site. Leasing costs (the bulk of which should be for aircraft) amounted to RM492 million for 2Q 0
50 Jfk777 : Cathay flies HKG to JFK nonstop with a 77W several times daily(three ), Can an A380 do that ? "Limited" isn't teh word I would use to reference the 7
51 Bmacleod : It's a longshot, but there could be possibility of ordering 747-8Is?
52 PlaneHunter : There's plenty of space (and slots) left at KUL for many years to come. SQ's figures are SQ's specific figures. MH may be in a completely different s
53 Jfk777 : I am sure the Emir of the UAE has a shower in his 777, so why can't an airline? IF MAS wants a shower for First Class passenger it could be done in 7
54 Astuteman : If the 77W can, then I'd suggest "yes" is the answer to that question... Rgds
55 PlaneHunter : Yeah, yeah, it's possible. Almost everything is possible. You could also install a bowling alley and a vegetable garden. Anyway, I'm sure no commerci
56 Post contains images EPA001 : As Astuteman and I already stated, yes she can and she can even do a bit better.   And I must respectfully disagree about your impression of the poo
57 Ryanair!!! : The issue isn't whether the CASM of the A380 is better than the 77W. But the REAL concern is whether the airline in question will be able to fill the
58 777law : I don't have specific numbers, but I would guess that a sizable portion of the population in Southern Malaysia (between Jahor Bahru and Malacca) use
59 Ryanair!!! : It doesn't help the dire situation when you have state governors all clamouring to have their airports achieve international status. Melaka and Ipoh,
60 FCKC : The swap A380:A330/A350 will not take place. Malaysia will TAKE THEIR A380s ON ORDER This swap has been contracted by CEO of Malaysia parent company ,
61 AustrianZRH : I think you wanted to say contradicted. Small typo, opposite meaning . Anyway, good news for the A380!
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