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AN Now In Talks With Impulse!  
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

I have just read the latest news on our Reuters news service and the latest reports are that AN / ANZ are now going to approach Impulse with a counter arrangement / offer!

AN / ANZ are also said to be attempting legal action to block QF / VQ's merger / arrangement.

What if Impule goes to AN?

Wacky times in Australian Aviation.

Cheers,

mb

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

In these crazy times in Australian aviation I guess
any thing is possible, there's also another rumour
going that Continental in the U.S. is looking to buy
into Ansett together with Singapore Airlines.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1153 times:

Wirraway,

This isn't a rumor though, it was announced by Mr Toomey himself.

CO buying into AN? Don't think ANZ will take too kindly to these rumors.

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1139 times:

What?? CO?? So does it mean that AN/NZ/SQ will join the NW/KL/CO/AZ alliance?? That's absolutely crazy!!



User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

AN can talk all they want but teh deal has been signed and there is nothing that they can do about it.

On the topic of CO, if this trend continues every airline in the world will own a part of each other (Drastic talk I know). I think that is something to worry about as one day there could just be one airline......period.


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

just read on Ansett's website that they're going to launch a TV campaign called "Absolutely Ansett" to win back customers. It's starting tonight (AEST) and it's going to run for 16 weeks.

I hope the CO buying into Ansett thingy is not true... It would be horrible!

Jimmy


User currently offlinePhileo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

In two weeks time from now, Qantas will officially take over the whole Impulse group and all ticketing will be honoured by Qantas.

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Air New Zealand-owned Ansett Australia said on Wednesday it would move to block rival Qantas Airways' alliance with Impulse Airlines and would consider its own offer for the discount carrier.
Asked if Ansett was first in line for Impulse, Ansett chief executive Gary Toomey said: "I don't know if we are first in
line, but we are certainly in the line."
Toomey said any bid would be funded from the airline's A$600 million cash reserve but emphasised that no talks had yet been
held between Ansett and Impulse.
Ansett would meet with Australia competition watchdog on Thursday, and would consider court action if necessary to block Qantas's proposed alliance with Impulse.
Toomey said Ansett would consider all options to compete in the Australian domestic market, including a possible tie-up with Richard Branson's Virgin Blue
Toomey was speaking after an Ansett advertising campaign launch, part of a A$30 million plan to boost advertising and training over the next 12 months.


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

This is a copy of the PPRUNE post:

farrari
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 106
Registered: Feb 99
posted 01 May 2001 11:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over here at CO there is a lot of talk re us buying into AN, and i do not mean idle talk, CO is now cashed up and looking for opportunities and expanding across the pacific to both A and NZ, with a partner called SQ.Mr T is due here May 21st.Do not shot me down here this is all common knowledge at our Houston HQ.
IP: Logged


User currently offlineBrenjoro_QF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

Now look who the sook of Australian Skies are

User currently offlineTim From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1122 times:

I have a flight SYD-BNE booked on impulse for July 13.

I dont know if im flying AN or QF yet!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1119 times:

The "deal" between Impulse and Qantas is subject to a number of issues. First the shareholders (and debenture holders) of Impulse have to agree to the buy-out by McGowan.

Given that as a result of the pressure applied by Qantas to the financial backers of Impulse, it was inevitable that Impulse would join QF - it was QF's way of bringing down the competition - I had heard of the "talks" with the financial backers over 8 weeks ago. Think about it. Impulse has been flying around full for the past couple of weeks, courtesy of Ansett, and not at $33 a ticket. How, with their cost base were they "unprofitable".

AN is hopeful that they can approach the debenture holders, and offer a better deal, but I doubt it is reversible unless the ACCC rules otherwise. I also doubt that will be the case, as "Impulse" will still be operating their own aircraft and slots, just under the QF banner. Hardly limiting/restricting competition.

As to a n AN/Virgin tie-up, no way, Jose unless Branson suddenly finds he has short pockets.

And as to the talks with CO - well Bethune used to be a Boeing man, and if you were considering operating the B767-400, wouldn't you visit another operator to get their impressions?

Oz777


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

Oz777,

I think you will find that under the contract, VQ have to give up their SYD-MELB-BRIS routes. That means less slots for VQ.

Expect some interesting results for Gerry!

mb


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

MB
Undestand what you say re VQ giving up the routes, but this is where they will run foul of Alan Fels. QF are adding larger aircraft to the sectors (763 > 733) but reducing frequency, which opens the question as to slots.

What will then happen to the 717's unless QF gets rid of their 146's really quick (and that means displacementof other QF operators off those routes).

Perhaps this is the opportunity for Virgin to fill the void on the SYD-MEL-BNE trunk.
Oz777


User currently offlineHigh_flyr69 From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1069 times:

What are Ansett thinking!
For a start the recent safety scare in the 762's has diverted many uninformed customers away from flying with the airline
And with how much money they lost and how much their advertising campaighn to buy back customers
they wont have enough money to support themselves in the Brutal Aviation Industrie
regards to all
high_flyr69



Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find the shot gun
User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1067 times:

To be honest I haven't heard any of my customers (in the travel agent) say no to Ansett...

just a quick note...

Rgds
Jimmy...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

Rumourmongers are now suggesting because of CASA's blatant stuff up and the subsequential amount of money and reputation it has cost AN, the Fed's will step in and possibly allow AN to block the merger / JV thing.

Good grief, payback time.

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

Interesting to read in today's paper that McGowan has a real chip on his shoulder over AN and what they did to him when he started to compete. I really cannot see him rejoining the Ansett camp.

Of the others who are objecting, look at Sydney and Melbourne airports. Having spent big dollars upgrading the "independent" terminals they will definitely not want to see Impulse returning to either of the large terminals.

The key is who can offer the better deal to the capital backers - althoug I suppose so long as they get their money back out they only then care about their on going business with QF.

And Ansett has a war chest of $600 million!!. That should shut up a few of the scribes on this forum who think that AN / ANZ are chronically short of cash!!

Interesting the comments also about the travellers chosing to stay with AN. QF have gone out an used their capacity to snare the corporate accounts through offering good discounts and further "hold-back" based on volume. A number of the corporate personnel I speak to would prefer to travel AN but company policy restricts them to QF. AN do not have the capacity to offer the same deals, and until they build up seats on the "trunk" they are not going to compete effectively. If AN go the way of larger narrow bodies in the medium term this could be the wrong strategy.

Oz777


User currently offlineBruneiAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1037 times:

Could the extra slots be used for the new services or would the ACCC still object ?

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

Oz777,

Gerry McGowan is a bit of a dreg. He's only interested in saving face and saving MONEY. If the AN / ANZ camp put a prospect to him expect to see him blathering to both sides.

And of course it will be dragged out till the next federal election. All the money boys (including me) are predicting a Labour landslide and Fels with be out. Whoever offers the best deal will win. QF are not as cashed up as anyone would like to think. Even though this 600M warchest that AN has come up with sounds ludicrous considering some of the OLD planes that AN has.

Has SQ finally put some money where it's mouth is?

Stranger things have happened.

mb


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1018 times:

Apparantly the talk is for the 19 slots that are/were
used by Impulse, QF is now starting to relent to get
the deal through. Toomey sent a letter to Mcgowan
Wed afternoon for a meet, this was rejected by Gerry
saying no way after he was thrown out of AN terminals
when he started and besides the contracts have been
signed, this morning I bet the farm on QF shares so
I hope there are no shocks in store.

VB meet with Fels tomorrow stating they could not fly
SYD-MEL because of the lack of slots. Branson was
interviewed from London on NZ tv Wed night and said
he felt positive with VBs future now that Impulse are
are off some routes.

The fin paper reported that Impulse were losing 4mil
per week and VB were proberly losing more and that,
Impulse only had enough cash for 3 weeks, Merril Lynch
reports Impulse had 2.5% of the market and VB 3.5%.

My guess is VB will get the majority of the slots reserved
to it and AN the rest, and the deal will go through, the
only fly in the ointment, if there is one is if there is some
other player making inquiries none of us knows about,
I bloody hope not but then knowing my luck anything
is possible.


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1015 times:

On the topic of QF's financial situation. You have to admit that they have survived unbelieveably well through all of this.Credit surely must go to Qantas because through all of this, they have survived, kept hold of all of their faculties and not needed to beg for money from BA (such as AN has likely done with SQ).

Also, Qantas does have a large funds in foreign currency stored away as a "war chest" as you call it and has slightly more that what AN has. The one thing that i cannot understand though is how did they get this money?
Why did they not use it where is was needed rather that just keeping it?
And how come this money was not apparent till a few weeks ago??


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Yes the funny part about QF cash reserves is - who was their Chief Financial Officer before he resigned recently?

Wirraway: Impulse must be bleeding somewhere else because 4 million a week translates to an awful amount per aircraft / flight (just how may "flights" per week do they operate). Annualised losses of $200 million per year? - nah. Assuming 117 seats, 8 aircraft, 8 sectors per day over 7 days at a loss of $20 per seat only comes to just over a million. Over the past three weeks VQ have been flying around full aircraft thanks to the AN groundings, and not at $33 a ticket. SPM costs for the 717 are how much? Something does not add up here.
Qantas forever: Where did you get the insane idea that AN 'Begged for money' from SQ. The $600 million is CAPITAL reserve, (ie from depreciation of assets and sell down of capital eqt) probably the sale of the 767s to GECAS form part of that, with lease payments funded from revenue. Although we cannot see separate balance sheets for AN, SQ are not in the business to "lend" money without some form of guarantee/security. Certainly the FIRB would have become involved then and there has been no report of that.

Don't let facts get in the way of emotion, it destroys a good story!!!! (or rumour)

Oz777


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1008 times:

Hhhhmm,

I read the reports on Reuters what Gerry was saying about his previous relations with AN. If he had any sense he should be keeping his mouth shut, the last thing he needs is a hostile AN / ANZ purchase. Whether that is going to happen or not is a moot point.

What's going to happen / happening is a HUGE amount of protests from various groups are going to Fels and various government departments. Now, if you consider the absolute (sic) chaos in the ranks of our Conservative government, and as it's popularity at an all time low, they are going to appease the majority on this issue to regain some face.

That's what I think. Then again our government has done stranger things.

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (12 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 992 times:


Mx5_boy,

Regardless of the so-called "War chest" and its size (which I must say I heard of a few years ago, but could not confirm it so dismissed it as an urban myth), Ansett has been hamstrung on fleet by ownership issues and management structure.

A long, long time ago, in an Executive team far, far away.......

Seriously, something like fleet needs to go to Executive Board level, which at Ansett, has been subject to mixed agendas for the last 5-6 years. Funny enough, this is when Ansett actually started seriously looking at replacing the B762's, but has struggled to get final approval due to constant change in management.


Totally off topic, but since I came back from a 7-week holiday in April, I have not seen a thing from Brissie_lions? I thought he would be having a field day with all this!!

B727-200.


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