Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air India To End B747 Scheduled Passenger Services  
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20149 times:

According to the GDS, it has been official that Air India will cease to operate their B744s for passenger services effective winter 09

You can refer:

www.airindia.in and see the schedules/timetables.

Air India will operate its last scheduled B747 flight (B744) on the 19th of October departing JED at 2345 hrs and will arrive in COK via CCJ at 0930 hrs on October 21st as AI 962.

No matter what the ills of AI are, when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind. From the B742,B743 B744s they have been AI's long haul backbone and acted as a relief aircraft to its frequently cancelled and delayed A300s/A310s mostly to the Gulf. Be it their legacy route of AI 111/112 BOM-DEL-LHR-JFK or assorted operations to LHR, EWR and ORD, the B744s have been there done that.

Hence forth the leased B772s will replace the B744s doing the JED and RUH runs, and subsequently the new B77Ws will replace the UA - leased B772s.

Taking cue from NW, maybe AI could arrange a send off ceremony or something, but that is highly unlikely.

[Edited 2009-10-03 13:12:52]

[Edited 2009-10-03 14:12:13]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19888 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
on the 19th of October departing JED at 2345 hrs and will arrive in COK via CCJ at 0930 hrs on October 21st as AI 962.

correction: it will be arriving in BOM via HYD on October 20th as AI 864. However there is some conflicting data, but any case the last flight will depart from JED on either 19th or 20th and arrive in India ( BOM or COK) the following day.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19851 times:

Seems strange to replace 744s with 772s and then 772s with 77Ws. Maybe that's just for the winter?
One more victim of big twins.  Smile



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19844 times:



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 2):
Maybe that's just for the winter?
One more victim of big twins.  

Nope they are permanently dumping the B747.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19829 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 3):
Nope they are permanently dumping the B747.

Yeah, I got that, I was just saying that it seems to make more sense to replace the 744s with 77Ws and the 772s with more 772s.
This is becoming a common tale and doesn't bode well for the 748, or the A380 for that matter.



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19798 times:



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 4):
Yeah, I got that, I was just saying that it seems to make more sense to replace the 744s with 77Ws and the 772s with more 772s.

Oh I get it.

Actually, the B77Ws are the new ones that will come gradually in the next year and as of now the B77W utilisation for the winter 09 is already finalised to key routes like USA, LHR etc. Now given that AI is unable to cancel some B77W orders they are getting rid of the old aircrafts. The B787s will replace the A310s, and the new A32s are replacing the age old A320s



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineRwy31R From Saudi Arabia, joined Aug 2001, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19760 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind. From the B742,B743 B744s

Very much agreed. When I was a child and vist JFK or LHR I would wait to see the linup of 747 allover and when I see AI livery inbetween them it would make my day.

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
Hence forth the leased B772s will replace the B744s doing the JED and RUH runs

These are high volume flights. I would have thought they will keep operating the 744 for them. but I guess this is where airlines are heading - twin jets.


What's the situation with AI A330 and A310?



"Saudia Three Five hold short Three One Right"
User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2679 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19749 times:

How many are currently flying, or have been for most of the year?

There certainly have been less of them though I didn't realize they were that close to parking the fleet.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19726 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This is a very smart move by Air India since Boeing has been delivering numerous 777's to India all year from thePaine Field. Air India's 744 are now approaching 20 years old, they are do for major upgrades.

User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19707 times:

For some reason my last post got deleted...

I thought a couple of years ago they completely refurbished the cabin interiors on the 744s...? Why did they do this if there was a chance of waving good-bye to the aircraft?


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19675 times:



Quoting Rwy31R (Reply 6):
What's the situation with AI A330 and A310?

The A330s too are going to be returned to the lessors.

The A310s are doing DEL - HKG, DEL - PVG, BOM - NBO, and all flights ex-DMM to India ( except to COK,CCJ which are done by the A320)

Quoting Goboeing (Reply 7):
How many are currently flying, or have been for most of the year?

They have had 6 recently. 3 of them were sold and leased back, and as of now AI owns 3 of them. Rumors are that 1-2 of the 3 B744s would be used for VIP/Air force operations and they will dump the remaining.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2919 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19665 times:



Quoting Vasu (Reply 9):
I thought a couple of years ago they completely refurbished the cabin interiors on the 744s...? Why did they do this if there was a chance of waving good-bye to the aircraft?

It wasn't a major change, just the seat covers and the carpet, nothing else. But back then the situation was different and now it is different.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19609 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 3):
Nope they are permanently dumping the B747.

I hope they´re dumping the 77Ws for 748s or A380s in the future! This 777-me too-trend is just so booooring.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
Air India's 744 are now approaching 20 years old

.
Not true. AIs handful of 744s were built around the time UA got their first 777.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19525 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting NA (Reply 12):
Not true. AIs handful of 744s were built around the time UA got their first 777.

That is 1995, what so new or great about a 1995 744? Some airlines have 21 st century built 744's.


User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19490 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
That is 1995, what so new or great about a 1995 744? Some airlines have 21 st century built 744's.

A 14 year old aircraft is not considered "old". Most airlines operate their aircraft at least 20 years (not talking about SQ etc.).


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 19411 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
No matter what the ills of AI are, when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind.

Living in the USA, the only image I have in my mind at all of AI is a 747 with those fancy red windows.

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
A 14 year old aircraft is not considered "old". Most airlines operate their aircraft at least 20 years (not talking about SQ etc.).

Depends who you ask. EK and SQ would say it is. And that's older than the entire widebody fleet at CO, and most of the narrowbodies, with even more "old" 733s leaving this year.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18568 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Depends who you ask. EK and SQ would say it is.

Thats why these airlines already get rid of 777s.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
That is 1995, what so new or great about a 1995 744?

I wasnt talking about great or not great. I referred to a wrong age description.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18056 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind.

 checkmark  AI's 747 have defined them for many of us. Ok, more emotionally than fact as the other aircraft enter the system, but the 747 was a symbol of AI for a long time.

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
According to the GDS, it has been official that Air India will cease to operate their B744s for passenger services effective winter 09



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Depends who you ask. EK and SQ would say it is. And that's older than the entire widebody fleet at CO

Once I read a report that showed it was best to 'refresh' widebodies around the first D-check (7 years, or sell right after the D-check... ???) or as the 3rd D-check came due (~21 years). At the time, the two strategies were about equivalent in CASM. Then oil shot up in price...

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17608 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 10):
Rumors are that 1-2 of the 3 B744s would be used for VIP/Air force operations and they will dump the remaining.

Hasnt the Air Force procured a BBJ for that purpose? Will the govt clear funds for re-fitting 744 in VIP configuration given the austerity drive..............


User currently offlineEgyptair269 From Egypt, joined Mar 2007, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17556 times:

Even though this would boost their fleet rennovation plans, its still very sad to see them go, the thread starter was very, very true:

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind



User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17556 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
Air India's 744 are now approaching 20 years old, they are do for major upgrades.

The oldest 744 in the AI fleet is 16 years old currently....the newest one is either 11 or 13 years old, not too sure.....

Very sad for me to hear this.....I was witness to the day the first AI 742 landed in BOM back in 1971....38 years of continuous 747 operation....many flights for me on those magnificent birds.... 

[Edited 2009-10-03 20:35:09]

User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17485 times:

Their 744s have MTOW's of 377t which is the same as a 742/743... Not close to the 396t max. available on the 744.

It's just paper work and new manuals but $$$ are necessary. They probably chose the lower MTOW since 377t is enough for the BOM/DEL-FRA/CDG/LHR-JFK/EWR/LAX flights etc.

Even on the second hand planes they lowered the MTOW. It does keep the landing fees lower though etc.

Wonder how easily they will find new operators. As the 377t will limit your payload significantly if you need lots of fuel/range. VS had some major payload restrictions back in the day when they operated their 744 to HKG for a short period. But for all their 744 east coast flying it has worked perfectly. Even though some like G-VFAB are now 394t for the JNB ops.

Do these 744s even have the Stab Tank?

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4071 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 17208 times:

Odd they would accept such a low gross weight limitation, was it really worth the reduced landing fees ?


In any case it does not limit a future operator, if worthwhile they can simply buy the higher gros weight rating from Boeing.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineEightball From Saudi Arabia, joined Oct 2007, 280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16885 times:

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
when one thinks about AI a picture of its B747 comes to the mind.

Quite true. Whenever I think of AI, I always remember their 744's flying in & out of JED. The 777 is my favorite aircraft, but the 744 is still a magnificent aircraft.

I think that this is simply a matter of airline economics. The 777, having two engines instead of four, and being a newer aircraft, is apparently more economical than the 744.

[Edited 2009-10-03 22:15:49]


Follow your dream.
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16736 times:

Once they got rid of the old paint scheme with the ornate windows it was time for a radical change.

I was always under the impression that the India - UK market was massive so downgrading routes to a 777 is a contradiction. I thought they'd be in desparate need of an A380 fleet.

Since renewing the livery I no longer feel the need to fly Air India. The new livery could belong to any airline and has lost its unique Indian flavour.


25 Ojas : It was massive till only BA and AI flew it. With 9W,IT,VS competing along with carriers like EK,QR,EY stealng away passengers with low fares, the B74
26 PlaneHunter : The 77Ws are only one year old (average age), they won't go anywhere anytime soon. If they take A380s or 748s, those will be additions. Ever checked
27 Karan69 : This will certainly be a sad day, as the OP said the moment you think of AI the elegant hump of the Queen of the Skies comes to mind, It use to bring
28 Cricket : It will be a sad day to see 747's end scheduled services, I'm sure they'll still operate special flights such as the PM's flight and the Hajj operatio
29 Pellegrine : Higher rating costs millions. A future operator might as well choose any number of the myriad B747-400s with 875,000lb MTOW that are already for sale
30 RetroLivery : I'm just glad that getting rid of the 747's means that AI will be able to offer a more consistent onboard product in longhaul, especially in Y. J to s
31 Post contains links NA : Mildly said for a trend which is a major step for a more boring aviation world. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4567
32 PRAirbus : Awful! Another era ends...nothing like the comfort of the 744 and the beauty of its lines. Are Air India's 747-400s that old? What a shame!
33 Skyguy : What are the plans for the 744's? Sell them, scrap them or store them in the desert? I could see one of them being converted into VVIP use, as the Pre
34 PlaneHunter : One should never forget that aviation is a business. That doesn't change the fact that all frames are still in service. Age is not relevant. Just hav
35 Post contains links Vasu : What about this? It says all new seats, IFE, overhead bins etc. : http://home.airindia.in/SBCMS/Webpages/2007-deluxe-aircraft.aspx
36 Post contains links Lightsaber : Nitpick, SQ is in the process of pre-paring to roll the de-rated 77E's out of the fleet. Fate Of SQ Retired 777s? (by NA Apr 13 2009 in Civil Aviatio
37 WestWing : I remember AI lamenting that they did not have enough pilots (particularly Captains) qualified on the 777s. With the 744 retirements, AI should be abl
38 Viscount724 : Or they want an aircraft with about the same passenger capacity (e.g.777-300ER) that burns about 1/3 less fuel.
39 AirIndia : Can AI sell these 744s to Iran or they too are bound by sanctions? Given an option would Iranian carriers prefer used 744s over Russian equipment?[Edi
40 HAWK21M : Damn Sad news.....I always dreamt to get maintenance Qualified on the B747 fleet one day.AI was my best best.....Guess need to look elsewhere now. Its
41 Ojas : Even Saudi Arabian is an option, to replace the B743s and B741s ( if they still use them) AI owns only 3 of the 6 B744s, ( I believe 3 of them were s
42 BlueSky1976 : Yes!!! This means more Mighty Triple Sevens for Air India!!!
43 Vimanav : AI's retirement of the B747's brings an era to an end. An era that I always knew would end, but wished for it to continue forever. I view the retireme
44 Gr8Circle : Not reproducing your entire post here, but well said! Fully agree with you about the past and unfortunately, the present......that the 747's days are
45 WestWing : My first flight on an AI 747 was in 1974. The aircraft ("Shahjehan") was a magnificent palace in the sky. My last flight on an AI 747 was in 2002. The
46 Blr380 : My first ever flight on a 747 was on AI from JFK-LHR-BOM. What a beauty.....I was amazed to see the "Maharaja" with its huge wingspan. Very elegant ho
47 Ojas : My first flight on any B747 for that matter was on AI's B742 between Mumbai and Doha. My last flight was on 7th Jan 2009 BOM - AMD on their B744 VT-ES
48 NA : Since close friends moved to India recently, I planned to fly there within the next 6 months. I know now which airline I wont take.
49 AirIndia : My one and only flight on AI744 was a domestic DEL-BOM in 2004. Unfortunately never got another chance to fly the 744s. Fortunetely, i flown on 3 quad
50 777way : AI 744s looked most beautiful in the previous livery.
51 HAWK21M : "JUMBO JET" So true. regds MEL.
52 WestWing : Any update on last scheduled AI 747 flight? Was it ever confirmed whether it was19th or 20th from JED?
53 Gr8circle : OMG! It's the 19th of October today
54 Ojas : 20th oct, final flight ... HYD - BOM AI 864. No more scheduled AI B747 services.
55 WestWing : The end of an era ! Now, will this final 747 flight operate on schedule or be "fashionably" late?
56 Vimanav : I do hope somebody will have clicked pictures of this last historic flight and will post them here soon. Any idea which airplane operated the last ser
57 Aviationbuff : Yesterday (20th Oct) I was at HYD airport waiting for 747 ( AI 865 operating HYD-JED ) I was surprised to see 772 (VT-AIL) instead. Now I know the re
58 Ojas : Nope it was an AI error, the last scheduled flight was indeed on the 20th October AI 864 HYD - BOM.
59 Airbazar : If I recall correctly, SQ still operates 744's delivered in 96 and 772's delivered in 97. That's 13 and 12 years old and not much older than today's
60 Ourboeing : O I am going to miss them in AI colors. Sad to see them go..but it is a next step forward for AI. They should be able to cut major fuel costs by takin
61 Gr8Circle : Sorry if I missed it in earlier replies but exactly how many 747's did AI have as of yesterday...and where are they going next....?
62 NA : A BIG BOOOOOH for Air India! Do they have too much money that they can afford to park airliners which are just half-aged, or have they sold them? Anyw
63 WestWing : Six 747-400s - three owned, three leased. Also, not in active service, one 747-300M - VT-EPW ("Shivaji").
64 Comorin : Super Constellation B707 B747 {enter worthy aircraft type in this space} I loved the window livery and the wonderful evocative names - Rani of Jhansi,
65 Lotsamiles : This aircraft has been sold and is being prepared for delivery to the buyer now.
66 WestWing : Thank you. Is there any public info about the VT-EPW buyer and/or whether the a/c is to be scrapped?
67 Post contains links and images Ojas : Pictures taken on the 16th Oct, AI 864 HYD - BOM View Large View MediumPhoto © Vivek Manvi View Large View MediumPhoto © Vivek Manvi View La
68 NA : Sistership VT-EPX has been scrapped in the UK earlier this year. -EPW would be an oddball anywhere, as AI two 743s are not standard -300s, they alrea
69 BmiBaby737 : Could EPW be on it's way to Kemble, too?
70 Lotsamiles : Sorry, the buyer ID is not ready for public distrubution yet although it is confirmed the aircraft will be scrapped. Unlikely but I hope to have news
71 Bennett123 : Actually, I saw VT-EPX (on it's visor to be exact) on 19th September at the Kemble Battle of Britain Airshow.
72 Tayaramecanici : KONARK VT-ESM was delivered in 1993, I guess some time in August. I was on duty at AI Line maintenance - BOM then, we had organised the reception in
73 PEET7G : May the oracle speak out of you... AI without 747s is like Indian cuisine without curry... could work, but it would never be the same
74 HAWK21M : Any reason regds MEL.
75 Tayaramecanici : It was a good souvenier to display on your tool box. One of those mechanic fettishes.
76 BmiBaby737 : One of the Boeing 747's arrived at Heathrow today as "Air India 1" it was not a scheduled flight. Anyone know what the plans are with these 747s?
77 WestWing : VIP transport. President of India on a state visit to the UK. Unconfirmed news reports that three will be returned to lessors, and three retained for
78 Post contains links Ojas : http://www.livemint.com/2009/10/2321...ir-India-plans-to-phase-out-s.html Official report.
79 WestWing : The livemint story says that three 744s will be retained and the remaining are likely to be sold [sic]. Will AI retain the three leased ones and sell
80 Post contains links and images Pellegrine : A very odd configuration! These must have been some of the last 747-300s produced to get 747-400 GE CF6-80C2 engines. View Large View MediumPhoto &co
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air India To IAD? posted Sat Jan 31 2009 17:29:41 by Alphaomega
Air France To Tokyo HANEDA, Scheduled! posted Fri Oct 24 2008 19:08:44 by ConcordeBoy
Air India To Reroute YYZ Via Heathrow posted Tue Sep 2 2008 14:29:59 by Behramjee
Air India To IAD/DFW? posted Wed May 7 2008 13:56:16 by IrishAyes
Air Canada To End Cargo Flights posted Wed Apr 23 2008 00:21:10 by OceansWorld
Air India To Extend A310 Lease From CSA posted Tue Apr 8 2008 08:22:04 by Revo
Air India To Start HKG-LAX/SFO Soon? posted Wed Feb 27 2008 12:07:18 by United Airline
Air India To Seek 787 Delay Compensation posted Fri Jan 4 2008 15:31:09 by EI321
Mesa/Air Midwest To End Chicago Flights From MWA posted Thu Oct 18 2007 10:26:27 by Atrude777
Air India To SFO And YVR? posted Sat Oct 13 2007 18:59:36 by YVR1968