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Are US Airlines Crew Disappointed About The A380?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3571 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 22273 times:

With US airlines not having a market for A380s, I wonder, are the people who work for US airlines, are disappointed? I know somebody at UA, AA and DL wish they could work on an A380. So how disappointed do you think pilots and F/A who work for airlines in the United States are about not being able to work on A380s?

93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 22269 times:

Why would they be disappointed? I would think having a job in the middle of a recession would be of more concern than whether the airline he or she works for would order the A380.

User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 266 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 22111 times:

Interesting thought. I'm a F/A for NW (or rather DL). Although I would love to work on the A380, I realize that with the market we have now it would be an unlikely dream.

User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21896 times:

I don't see why they should be. One airplanes is just as good as another. But maybe it's just me.


Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4431 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21843 times:

Personally, I am devastated..


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21734 times:

im Cabin Crew in Australia and honestly, im not that excited to work on it, nor are alot of the other crew i work with.. to us its just a double decker A320  Wink add some doors, 2 more engines... now i would love to work on a A340-600 Big grin


Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineAsuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 21652 times:



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 3):
I don't see why they should be. One airplanes is just as good as another. But maybe it's just me.

Bigger airplane, more seats, higher pay rate for flight crews.


User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 21551 times:



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 6):

Bigger airplane, more seats, higher pay rate for flight crews.

Yes, but I don't think the pay rate was quite the point he was getting at. And past that some people prefer domestic legs over int'l even if the pay for int'l is higher. I think that if there is one type to be sad about the lack of in the US, it's the A340. But, of course, keep in mind, I'm not flight crew.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3203 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 21440 times:



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 6):
Bigger airplane, more seats, higher pay rate for flight crews.

For cockpit crews, higher pay. For cabin crews, same pay regardless of what aircraft type or trip - hourly pay only.

So for cabin crews, I'd venture a guess that 90%+ prefer working smaller widebodies. Services are finished faster, crew rest breaks are longer.

Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 7):
And past that some people prefer domestic legs over int'l even if the pay for int'l is higher.

Not really.

At NW, for example, there are a ton of DC9 captains that could *not* hold 747-400 first officer. That's because a lot of these pilots prefer flying the long-hour transoceanic flights. Max hours for a minimum of days. Far better layover hotels, accommodations, etc. You'll find, for the most part, this is true across most US legacies. DL, for example, a large majority of the 777 FO's are senior to the MD88 CA's. In this regard, it can almost be seen as an "upgrade" to go from MD88 CA / DC9 CA to 777 FO / 744 FO.

As a bit of anecdotal evidence, on one of my more recent TransPac flights on a NW 747-400, one of the FO's was senior enough to be a junior 757 captain. When asked why he didn't upgrade, he said that he had a wife and 4 kids, so he always needed to have Xmas off, birthdays off, and wanted to work max hours in as few days per month as possible.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15725 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 21393 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 8):
At NW, for example, there are a ton of DC9 captains that could *not* hold 747-400 first officer.

This is ablsolutely true. But I think that some airlines have rules that force the really senior FOs to upgrade after a certain amount of time.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBalZ18 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 21051 times:

As a ramper i'm not disappointed at all. Having said that I do think the A380 is big and ugly!  duck 


First class or no class...
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20968 times:
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As for ground crews I'd say all but the newer people are real glad they don't have it. Baggage delivery nightmares, jammed facilities, flight departure crushes, being even more undermanned over a longer period (time to work the beast), passenger accommodation crisis in cases of delays or cancellation. Constantly worrying that when the company decides they can't pay for it with today's revenue thresholds what they will want to take away from us and how the whole loss will affect the finances and survival of the carrier and our career such as it is (was).

No. Sorry but that's a giant ego toy that experience wants to stay far away from.

FYI Nice to see you back but didn't recognize the name



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20622 times:
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What a headache if one takes a major delay or diversion.  old 

User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20396 times:

I cant help wondering what the reaction would be from our american friends if it had been a boeing  highfive 

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20229 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 12):
What a headache if one takes a major delay or diversion.

I would imagine that there are pilots who would want to fly it, and some F/As who would want to work it, but rampers probably aren't too sad about not having to load it, and as you state, the gate agents are probably quite happy they don't have to board it or deal with a cancellation of 500 angry pax.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20100 times:

I think a lot of us want to ride in it but working around that big plane is a different thing entirely!
When you have a big aircraft it means a lot of work for those on the ground and in the air. Although a lot of us love working around the planes, there are even more who work at an airline because it is a job and the planes are just another part of the job. Those people look at the aircraft as work and the bigger the more work!

BUT

There are a few airlines here in the US that could order the A380. There wont be huge numbers of them but a few have routes to support the big whale!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineSeaMeFly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19983 times:

you don't miss things you don't have... simple as that.

User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19920 times:



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 14):
I cant help wondering what the reaction would be from our american friends if it had been a boeing

Boeing would never build something that ugly.  duck 

All kidding aside, I would think that no matter what aircraft it is, whether someone wants to fly on it or now would depend on their personal preferences. I'm sure there are pilots for US carriers who wish they could fly the A380... and I'm sure there are some who'd just as soon never be at the same airport with one. Probably more of the former than the latter, though. And a whole lot more in between.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineWORLDRIDER From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19689 times:



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 14):
I cant help wondering what the reaction would be from our american friends if it had been a boeing highfive

they would be praying it as the new.. God pray   praise   pray 
NO DOUBT


IMHO, the A380 IS just GORGEOOUUS, i had a close look at it not like many on here..

and is clearly today's most efficient VLA in the sky as simple as it is.


User currently offlineRSBJ From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19655 times:

Well, dad flys for US and he refers to the 320 as the "little pos" and the 330 which he's on now, as the "big pos". He's very dissapointed in the systems reliablity, among a miriad of other things. If not for the increase in pay he'd be back on the 767 "in a heartbeat".

Point here? Maybe he would fly the "largest pos" if US had it simply because it would pay more per hour, but he in no way misses the opportunity. I don't think USA based airlines care all that much about flying the biggest thing out there. They want quality of life and then pay; nothing else matters.

The 747 pilots I have flown with express their pride of flying an iconic airplane, but rarely did I get the impression it was just a matter or size. I think they were more proud to have flown a plane that was such a risk, yet such a success. The M.865 cruise speeds were nice too.

All things being equal, pilots want to fly good-looking planes. Airbus demonstrates with the A350 it can build build beautiful planes, but the A380 is an asthetic abomination which may go down as the ugliest thing ever to become airborne.

I don't think USA based crews are longing for the 380 in any way.



I fly really fast and take a lot of chances.
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15725 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19614 times:



Quoting WORLDRIDER (Reply 20):
they would be praying it as the new.. God
NO DOUBT

It's wonderful that you think of all Americans as being jingoistic idiots who check the "Made in" label on everything.  Yeah sure I for one will never allow myself to feel guilty for buying or using something foreign made. For you to make such assertions about such a large group of people is way out of line.

Quoting WORLDRIDER (Reply 20):
and is clearly today's most efficient VLA in the sky as simple as it is

...if you can fill it. And most American airlines don't feel that they can do that, at least not at realistic fares. Perhaps instead of looking down on airlines who haven't purchased the latest toy the manufacturers have tossed them we should be applauding them for making what looks like a sound business decision and not letting the temptation of the shiny object and the "mine's bigger than yours" mentality get the best of them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDLcnxgptjax From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19153 times:



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 14):
I cant help wondering what the reaction would be from our american friends if it had been a boeing

So far no U.S. carriers have ordered the Boeing made 777-300ER or the 747-800. Point is the largest operating "new" boeing in the U.S. is the 777-200LR. So even if the A380 was "American made" the question asked would still be valid.

If I misunderstood your post, I'm sorry, but I don't think the manufacturer in this case really matters.


User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19077 times:
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But wouldn't it be more efficient to have, say...4 or 5 380s a day running JFK-LAX rather than a 767/757/737/320 every hour or less? Same with JFK-LHR...huge market, many flights.


Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently onlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18575 times:



Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
With US airlines not having a market for A380s, I wonder, are the people who work for US airlines, are disappointed?

It was posted on this forum that the FAs of SQ don't like the A380 too much because they have to serve more passengers per FA on flights with the A380.


User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18481 times:



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 7):
And past that some people prefer domestic legs over int'l even if the pay for int'l is higher.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 8):
At NW, for example, there are a ton of DC9 captains that could *not* hold 747-400 first officer.

No one answer for this---it all depends what matters to a pilot. If he or she wants maximum control over their schedule, they might prefer being a senior 737 captain to be a mid-seniority 777 captain or FO. Some want to be home every few days, others prefer to do a few long stretches and get their flying over with. Some just want whatever pays best.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
25 Solnabo : . Why would any US carrier buy the A380 when there´s zero 77W flying for US of A? Just my thoughts about this thread //Mike
26 ThrottleHold : The infamous BSJ Syndrome.
27 Breiz : Americans are certainly not idiots. However, it is only in the States that safety cards bear the mention "Final assembly of this plane was completed
28 Markdirk : Nope not disappointed at all, Happy even!. I prefer the Boeings, 747,767, and 777 over the A380, but thanks for asking. Happy flying!
29 EbbUK : Gosh you know I'd never entertained the thought? Thank you for asking this question. it will be most illuminating to read the candid views of this se
30 Par13del : If I were to stir the pot I would say that it would not be more efficient for US airlines to use the larger 777-300ER on the route that you mention J
31 Birdbrainz : I've never seen that on any of UA's or US's safety cards, and they're big A320 operators. Anyone else seen it?
32 Vfw614 : Why would they be disaapointed? There are hardly any Boeing 747-400s - the previous "Queen Of The Skies", operated by US airlines, so they are sort of
33 Jfr : Precisely. Even before the 380 came along, there were precious few 74's in service with US carriers. Those big planes just don't fit the domestic - f
34 Caspritz78 : I don't see much a difference to loading a 747 or a 777. Actually the A380 is probably easier to handle because you have more space below. About 500
35 AirframeAS : Actually, for me, I am thankful that there are not any A380's in any U.S. airline livery. And also for me, the A380 is just another airplane. I don't
36 Bananaboy : Why? Mark
37 AirframeAS : Because the U.S. airlines are smart enough to know they don't need the aircraft when the are flying 757's, 767's and 777's across the Pacific and Atl
38 N14AZ : The one doesn´t exclude the other. BA has also 12 A380s on order plus 7 options.
39 DLCnxgptjax : I don't think this an Airbus vs Boeing thing at all. I think, as I believe most others do too, that it's more about the size of the A380. No U.S. carr
40 Theredbaron : No its just proves that they (the airlines) are broke. Because Airbus gives away their aircraft, didnt you know? Weird, I thought we were aviation en
41 Olympic472 : Information is definitely on the UA cards, and for a while now. From a passenger's POV, I am more disappointed with the slow pace of UA's interior up
42 I380North : I can't believe this thread is getting so much press. 40 at last count. It must be a SLOW WEEK. It contributes nothing to the body of knowledge/exchan
43 DAL7e7 : I personally always thought that this was the country of manufacture being proud of their product. I think the OP means disappointed as in not gettin
44 787KQ : This compensation system needs to be capped. It is illogical that the pay goes into the stratosphere when you have fully-skilled flight crew.
45 EBJ1248650 : Is it not possible that some might be disappointed they haven't had the opportunity to fly, work on or serve in the A380 simply because that denies th
46 Transpac787 : For pilots, it's quite logical. When a PIC signs the dispatch release, he takes sole responsibility for all souls aboard the aircraft, the plane itse
47 Mir : The US flight crew community needs to solve the pay rate problems it has now before worrying about how a 380 would affect the scales. Maybe. But it's
48 EbbUK : Well if this isn't I don't know what is. And nearly every post has been off topic. Yet the mods deem it worthy enough to put it on the front page. Th
49 413x3 : Yes it would be more efficient, but the American market is full of people who don't care about that, they just want cheap fares and a large variety o
50 Transpac787 : Spare us your fake outrage. It's not like there are going to be intra-Europe A380 flights either.
51 Lexy : You are correct. DL has it on all their Airbus equipment. It can be found right above the "DO NOT Remove" statement on the back fold. It is in black
52 Viscount724 : Frequency is more important than aircraft size in those strong business-travel markets. In a market like JFK-LAX, it's been proven for half a century
53 UnitedFA07 : What world are you in?! If UA had the A380 it was be minimum crew with just enough FAs for each door then maybe couple more! Minimum staffing keeps g
54 AirframeAS : I hope to dear god you are being sarcastic. I am more interested in narrowbody type airplanes and some widebodies, but again, the A380 is just anothe
55 Heavy747 : As a ex-rampee, (was for 6 years till i went back to university), imagine having to do a bag search on the A380. With my luck, it would be one of the
56 Lexy : LOL! Or they would find a way for one of the regionals to operate the aircraft with their crews instead of UA crews.
57 Ikramerica : Though I've not seen this, it's a general requirement in the USA that country of assembly (and usually country of parts and ingredient origin) be lis
58 Breiz : You get a point there, Ikramerica, at the basic consumer level. But as you and me do not buy ac everyday, one is allowed to wonder about this specifi
59 N62NA : Well, moving to a larger aircraft would be more efficient, but I don't see enough demand for an A380 sized aircraft on JFK/EWR-LAX. If the USA airlin
60 WESTERN737800 : If I was a US crew member I wouldn't be disappointed. If I was I would apply with a foreign operator that has them. The US global carriers have 777s,
61 Lexy : You know, if companies would instead do more in the way of video conference's and stuff, then this whole need to be in NYC every 15 minutes would be
62 AirframeAS : I do, and I do agree with you. It saves said company a lot of money in the long run by teleconferencing. I agree with this.
63 Antoniemey : That was just a bit of lunacy... especially since "French Fries" aren't French. A320s, however, are by the legal definition. I can't say as I've ever
64 Pnwtraveler : Viscount is entirely correct. Business travelers want the next available flight that is the most convenient and gets them home or where they are goin
65 N62NA : I've been doing that a lot this year. In past years, I've flown from MIA to my office in NYC on average once every 6 weeks. This year, I have flown u
66 UA76Heavy : In concept, video conferencing is all right, like for sales and low-level stuff, but in practice you need to be on site if you're going to manage. Pe
67 Cospn : Im More happy that CO operates ONLY 2 engine aircraft.. Better for the planet and Unfortunately there are no routes CO has that can use the A380...
68 Par13del : Not sure I understand the problem with this, will pax deplane if the a/c is not made in the US, the reverse would be are the French or Germans not pr
69 N62NA : This whole talk about an "American" plane vs a "non-American" plane is silly. There's a significant amount of American-made parts in Airbus planes, an
70 Par13del : Makes you wonder why they name the a/c Airbus or Boeing and not Airbus by the US or Booeing bythe EU Thats why Americans should have been as proud as
71 N766UA : I'd go with "none disappointed." Generally speaking, it's a NIGHTMARE to clean, a pain to load, a chore to serve, and a headache to space. It's got 4
72 UnitedFA07 : Yeah that's true. Will be doing our International flights soon too! LOL I'd say the flying public business or not is to blame for it. Back not too lo
73 UnitedFA07 : Not that I'm not proud of what Airbus has built, I just think it's and UGLY ass plane! No matter where it comes from! JMO, and I know others who feel
74 Jalap : Are you speaking from experience or is that just an assumtion? This seems to be the most given argument in this thread and although quite understanda
75 N766UA : Experience. I've loaded and cleaned 747s, it was awful. The A380 is bigger and, therefore, even more awful. A380s also require more distance in trail
76 MogandoCI : why should the US airlines be upset? The A380 is excellent for : 1. Shipping hoard-loads of tourists or migrant-workers in sardine classes (hello AF's
77 N766UA : I see what you're saying but, speaking as a former ramp rat, it's just not true. The vast majority of guys want less work. They really couldn't care
78 Dallasnewark : I'm amazed that this whole thread had not been deleted. But with the most moderators being European and the sacred cow a.k.a the A380 being discussed
79 Lexy : I concur with you on that 100%. When you boil it all down, the public is the ones that want BNA-NYC flights every 10 minutes or so throughout the wor
80 AirbusA6 : To be fair to Theredbaron, it is a slightly surprising attitude to take, yes the A380 isn't the most attractive plane ever, but to show such little i
81 BMI727 : Or if Airbus built the 787 you Europeans would be a lot more lenient about it. This whole thing has a lot less to do with nationalism than you all th
82 AirframeAS : It would still be just another airplane to me.
83 Astuteman : Fortunately the airlines that HAVE bought the A380 generally fit into the former category. You might get to work with them yet .. You're probably rig
84 Steex : In addition to the comments others have made with regard to the demand for frequency, another problem is the inflexibility this brings. While some ai
85 BMI727 : But they understand that their markets can use the A380. If SQ thought that their market could not realistically support the A380, they would not hav
86 AirbusA6 : Whether American carriers buy the A380 wasn't the point, the question was more about whether the wider aviation community in the US would regret not
87 BMI727 : This whole thread seems to have been started under the assumption that the American airline industry is somehow lagging behind because none of them h
88 Antoniemey : Personally, if if was exactly the same plane just with a different manufacturer and name, I'd still think it was the ugliest commercial aircraft I'd
89 PGNCS : Feel free to speak for yourself. I have done both in a variety of aircraft from the DC-9 to the 744, and prefer the narrowbody domestic flying. It is
90 N766UA : Nice attitude. You do realize that servicing jumbo jets is something that's relatable, don't you? It's not at all unrealistic to compare the nightmar
91 Transpac787 : 12 days per month is still a LOT less than he'd be flying on domestic. Besides, with seniority like his he'll be doing 3x 3-day trips per month and b
92 AirframeAS : Nope, I am just not fascinated with widebodies, that's all. I get jiggy with narrowbodies...besides they are better, IMO.
93 Astuteman : Of course I don't. But then neither do I believe that the current A380 orders were placed solely on the basis of pride. Which was what I thought you
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