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AF447 : For The Honor Of Pilots  
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17318 times:

Big controversy this morning in the French News

An article in the Sunday news (Le Journal du Dimanche) interviewing a union member pilot who has written a report revives the theory that BEA, AF and Airbus play dumb while they probably know the main cause of the crash but try to cover each others *sses

Article is in French, sorry

http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Justice/...Pour-l-honneur-des-pilotes-139187/

it says roughly:

- Main cause in the chain of event is the Pitot failure while BEA tries to minimize and say nothing can be sure before black boxes are found (which will never happen)
- The same chain of failures generated by the Pitot had happened before, starting in the 90s with a peak in 2008: precautions should have been taken since the problem of frost on Pitot was known
- If full responsibility is put on pilots heads, then the lawsuit is dying naturally since the culprits are dead

The interviewed guy is an ex-military now AF pilot and union member and works with a retired AF captain on crashes to search for something else than the "official" truth
here's an interesting link (main page in French but lots of data in English)

http://henrimarnetcornus.20minutes-blogs.fr/


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63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16764 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Thread starter):

- Main cause in the chain of event is the Pitot failure while BEA tries to minimize and say nothing can be sure before black boxes are found (which will never happen)

I can't read French, but did he explain the bit about how a failed pitot tube causes a decompression at cruise? I'm still waiting to get an answer to that question.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16746 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Thread starter):

- Main cause in the chain of event is the Pitot failure while BEA tries to minimize and say nothing can be sure before black boxes are found (which will never happen)
- The same chain of failures generated by the Pitot had happened before, starting in the 90s with a peak in 2008: precautions should have been taken since the problem of frost on Pitot was known
- If full responsibility is put on pilots heads, then the lawsuit is dying naturally since the culprits are dead

I miss one factor in this story: if this is true, why aren't the aviation authorities (EASA, FAA) doing something about this? I guess they know as much as this guy does..



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14111 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I can't read French, but did he explain the bit about how a failed pitot tube causes a decompression at cruise? I'm still waiting to get an answer to that question.

Doc - the pitot tubes are the very beginning of a chain of events that led to an inflight breakup (and therefore decompression). Nobody is saying the pitot tubes caused a decompression.

If the pitot tubes began feeding bad data to the onboard computers, the aircraft systems started to try to compensate - which could have led to significant input to control surfaces and other systems. Then the computers finally failed and handed control of the now out of control jet to the pilot, and excess forces (either before or after that point) led to an in-flight breakup. It's a horribly complex (and for that matter hypothetical) analysis, but the point is the pitot's did play a role in the accident - but they did not necessarily "cause a decompression".

RIP AF447.

Andrew  wave 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2979 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13925 times:



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 3):
and excess forces (either before or after that point) led to an in-flight breakup

Without repeating the thousands of posts in the multiple a.net threads on AF447, the DGAC preliminary report found the the aircraft hit the water intact in line of flight (i.e. level) with strong vertical (descending) acceleration. There was no in-flight break-up.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13762 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 4):
Without repeating the thousands of posts in the multiple a.net threads on AF447, the DGAC preliminary report found the the aircraft hit the water intact in line of flight (i.e. level) with strong vertical (descending) acceleration. There was no in-flight break-up.

Thank you - I was unaware of this, I stand corrected.



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12186 times:
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Remember, the pilots are DEAD and can not defend themselves and offer some insight into this tragic accident.  old 

User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11916 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 6):
Remember, the pilots are DEAD and can not defend themselves and offer some insight into this tragic accident. old

One of the theories was that with the 3-man flight crew, 1 was probably in the crew rest, 1 may have been in the galley (or somewhere besides the flight deck) and the other may not have been strapped in. If the weather radar was calibrated incorrectly and they hit severe, with the FO not strapped in and the pitot's frozen, not providing data to the flight control computers - away we go. When the flight control computers stop receiving data, the autopilot disengages and the aircraft must be flown manually, which if the pilot isn't able to grab the controls...away we go.

I really hope the answers are found, not just the reasons for the crash but also the actual causes. Frozen pitot tubes do not cause aircraft to crash, and a thunderstorm throwing an A330 into the ocean is no easy feat, and pilot error alone is not the sole cause for AF447 - it may be a contributing factor but to blame it all on them for "not realizing the warning signs" - the warning signs are the cause!


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11718 times:
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Will we have AF447 threads forever? I wish the black boxes had been found. There is information within them that could save future lives.

Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 7):

I really hope the answers are found, not just the reasons for the crash but also the actual causes. Frozen pitot tubes do not cause aircraft to crash, and a thunderstorm throwing an A330 into the ocean is no easy feat, and pilot error alone is not the sole cause for AF447 - it may be a contributing factor but to blame it all on them for "not realizing the warning signs" - the warning signs are the cause!

 yes  I 100% agree. This is not a simple problem with one answer.

Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 7):
One of the theories was that with the 3-man flight crew, 1 was probably in the crew rest, 1 may have been in the galley (or somewhere besides the flight deck) and the other may not have been strapped in.

Interesting theory...

Alas, without the black boxes... we'll never know.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11319 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Thread starter):
- If full responsibility is put on pilots heads, then the lawsuit is dying naturally since the culprits are dead

I don't know the laws in France, but typically, if an employee, while acting in the execution of his job, causes some harm, the employer is usually held responsible for those actions and liable for damages. Just because an accident can be blamed solely on "pilot error", the airline isn't absolved of liability in any resulting legal action.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineLoalq From Switzerland, joined Jan 2007, 222 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11096 times:

Talking about theories, and sorry if this sounds stupid, there would be any possibility that the actions taken by the crew due to incorrect speed readings eventually got AF447 on an unrecoverable flat spin like the one on this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7VS9_Ce0sg



"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9356 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
did he explain the bit about how a failed pitot tube causes a decompression at cruise?

Oh, that's pretty easy. The data read by the jammed sensors wrongly report a reading like the airplane is at sea level so the systems completely open any shutoff valve at 30+kft. Isn't that enough to explain one hell of a decompression clearly ? Let's say some other systems in a chain of event operates the airplane above structural limits in terms of speed, bank angles etc, until it just breaks. Sounds reasonable enough to you too ?


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9155 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 2):
I miss one factor in this story: if this is true, why aren't the aviation authorities (EASA, FAA) doing something about this? I guess they know as much as this guy does..

Strangely enough, EASA banned the Thales Pitot shortly after the crash...

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8):
Will we have AF447 threads forever? I wish the black boxes had been found. There is information within them that could save future lives.

We'll have these threads as long as we're kept in limbos.
We're in 2009 and we're told everything depends on a technology from the 50s to find out what happened, a bit hard to swallow.
The 2 guys are pilots (I am not) and they try to find an explanation thru experiences and analysis of ACAR messages
At least they make an effort, contrarily to the "a shame the black box is at the bottom of the ocean" attitude authorities are giving here

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8):
Alas, without the black boxes... we'll never know

That's exactly the excuse that is given to the families whenever an "information meeting" is given by AF and authorities.
French gvt even send nuclear submarines and ships to find black boxes, to find nothing up to now, and brag about "we did everything we can"

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 9):
I don't know the laws in France, but typically, if an employee, while acting in the execution of his job, causes some harm, the employer is usually held responsible for those actions and liable for damages. Just because an accident can be blamed solely on "pilot error", the airline isn't absolved of liability in any resulting legal action.

You're right
I think what they mean is if everything is put on pilots shoulders, then Airbus, Authorities and Thales can' t be held responsible, and at the same time the lawsuit will die because the main "perpetrators" are dead
AF still is liable of course



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User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8995 times:



Quoting Loalq (Reply 10):
Talking about theories, and sorry if this sounds stupid, there would be any possibility that the actions taken by the crew due to incorrect speed readings eventually got AF447 on an unrecoverable flat spin like the one on this video?

The incorrect airspeed issue came up with the frozen pitot tubes because of the turbulence...if the aircraft did encounter severe and the airspeed wasn't adjusted, it could have lead to several problems including structural failure.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 12):

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 9):
I don't know the laws in France, but typically, if an employee, while acting in the execution of his job, causes some harm, the employer is usually held responsible for those actions and liable for damages. Just because an accident can be blamed solely on "pilot error", the airline isn't absolved of liability in any resulting legal action.

You're right
I think what they mean is if everything is put on pilots shoulders, then Airbus, Authorities and Thales can' t be held responsible, and at the same time the lawsuit will die because the main "perpetrators" are dead
AF still is liable of course

AF would still be liable, especially considering some of the theories out there about only the FO being present in the flight deck, if he wasn't strapped in (could lead to a procedure AF didn't enforce, thus liable), known problems with the crew incorrectly calibrating the weather radar on the A330/A340 (AF training issues, once again thus liable), and a whole other set of issues including the pitot tubes could even be considered.

Anything can happen when people get lawsuit crazy - especially in a world where a woman from McDonalds can win a suit when she spilled coffee on herself and was burned, claiming she didn't know it was hot....geez.


User currently offlineCatseye From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8945 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 9):
Will we have AF447 threads forever? I wish the black boxes had been found. There is information within them that could save future lives.

Yeah I hope these findings not only looked at the accident cause but also the problems created by the difficulty in finding the cause. Meaning, this accident has brought to the attention of the world the fact there is significant failing in the system used to identify the location of an aircraft and it's blackbox following an accident.


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8830 times:



Quoting Catseye (Reply 14):
Yeah I hope these findings not only looked at the accident cause but also the problems created by the difficulty in finding the cause. Meaning, this accident has brought to the attention of the world the fact there is significant failing in the system used to identify the location of an aircraft and it's blackbox following an accident.

I am fully with you.

Data from onboard computers should be sent live to an ops center via satellite.
Instead of being saved in "boxes" that very often get lost or are becoming very hard to read after a crash...it's possible technically so they should spare us the BS

Let's be serious, they didn't even know where the plane precisely was before it crashed!
I have a GPS on my cellphone: not only I can know where I am at all times, but I can enter my references on some websites and they locate me real time.

So doing this for a top notch commercial airliner is too complicated?



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User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8714 times:
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Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 13):
AF would still be liable, especially considering some of the theories out there about only the FO being present in the flight deck

Where did that theory come from? Is their any evidence of that happening? How would know, nobody is alive that can tell us.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 15):
I have a GPS on my cellphone: not only I can know where I am at all times, but I can enter my references on some websites and they locate me real time.

That works when you have service, I doubt that feature would work in the middle of the ocean.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12422 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8700 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 15):
it's possible technically so they should spare us the BS

Yes, and it's possible technically for a human-powered aircraft to cross the English Channel, so why don't we see it every day?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineVARIG MD-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8613 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 16):
That works when you have service, I doubt that feature would work in the middle of the ocean.

There are services others than the ones open to the general public.
The plane was in the middle of the ocean but the ACAR messages were transmitted seconds before the crash via satellite, so it is possible.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Yes, and it's possible technically for a human-powered aircraft to cross the English Channel, so why don't we see it every day?

So what's your point?
We should stick to antiquated technology fitted on 21st century airplanes and live with it?
Now we have the result: nobody knows anything for sure



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User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8573 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 15):
Instead of being saved in "boxes" that very often get lost or are becoming very hard to read after a crash

What do you mean, very often. How often?


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8515 times:



Quoting 413x3 (Reply 19):
What do you mean, very often. How often?

I see, you want precise statistics? sorry I can't give you some.
And now you can jump on me saying that I have nothing to prove my point.

Only, in some most recent crashes it was not possible to find or read the boxes

- AF447: cant' be found

- the ex-NZ A320 that plundged in the sea in Nov 2008 in France: cant' be read
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/20...crash-a-boite-noire-endommagee.php

- IY A310: can't be read
http://www.anacm-comores.com/raports-incidents.php



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User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8481 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 15):
Let's be serious, they didn't even know where the plane precisely was before it crashed!
I have a GPS on my cellphone: not only I can know where I am at all times, but I can enter my references on some websites and they locate me real time.

They knew the plane's final position report and it was very accurate. The final position report was approx 4 1/2 minutes before the plane ceased transmitting.

The confusion by the media was based on hopes that the plane continued to fly after the final position report, and a complete lack of understanding the physics. Once the plane lost control or whatever happend - it fell for approx six miles before it hit the water surface, then it fell another four miles before it hit bottom.

That expands the circle of the final position by at least 15 miles, maybe as much as 30 miles form the last position report extended for 4 1/2 minutes.

The bad weather which kept the searchers from being able to visually search for two days expanded the debris field and search area tremendously.

The GPS feature in your cell phone most likely takes its information from cell phone towers in the area, not actual GPS satellites. Even if the program does receive GPS satellite information, the ability to locate the device is based on the phone keeping in contact with cell phone towers.

The GPS satellites do not have the ability to receive a signal from your device. They do not know where any civilian device on the earth is located.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8440 times:



Quoting VARIG MD-11 (Reply 18):
The plane was in the middle of the ocean but the ACAR messages were transmitted seconds before the crash via satellite, so it is possible.

Some ACARS messages were transmitted. Some were scrambled and had to be transmitted again, possibly several times. We do not know if all the ACARS messages got through before the plane stopped transmitting. We do not know if the ACARS messages were transmitted in the order in which the events occured.

The system used to send ACARS messages is about as reliable as possible given current technology because they are short, digital and verifiable.

I question the reliability of such systems because the aircraft, like all AF birds, was set to transmit a GPS verified position report every 10 minutes.

From the BEA prelim report, the failure of the plane to send position reports for over an hour did not raise any major concern in the AF operations center. I wish the report had indicated when the AF ops center insitituted lost aircraft procedures. Even to the end, the AF team was focused on lost communications and a plane continuing on to CDG more than search and rescue.

So such communications failures are apparently common. It would also indicate such failures occur due to weather systems, sunspot interference, satellite lack of coverage and reliability rather than the onboard equipment.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8385 times:



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 3):

Doc - the pitot tubes are the very beginning of a chain of events that led to an inflight breakup (and therefore decompression). Nobody is saying the pitot tubes caused a decompression.

But if it were a simple in-flight breakup, then the loss of pressure would have been the last automated message that the aircraft sent. However, the pressure loss was reported very early in the chain of events, IIRC. The aircraft continued to transmit data for a good 5 minutes at least after that transmission.

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 11):
Oh, that's pretty easy. The data read by the jammed sensors wrongly report a reading like the airplane is at sea level so the systems completely open any shutoff valve at 30+kft. Isn't that enough to explain one hell of a decompression clearly ? Let's say some other systems in a chain of event operates the airplane above structural limits in terms of speed, bank angles etc, until it just breaks. Sounds reasonable enough to you too ?

But then it wouldn't be reported as a pressure loss, or would it? Anyone know the A330 systems well enough to comment?


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8360 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 21):
They knew the plane's final position report and it was very accurate. The final position report was approx 4 1/2 minutes before the plane ceased transmitting.

The confusion by the media was based on hopes that the plane continued to fly after the final position report, and a complete lack of understanding the physics. Once the plane lost control or whatever happend - it fell for approx six miles before it hit the water surface, then it fell another four miles before it hit bottom.

I am not denying what you say.
it's just the first days after the crash, militaries were a bit fuzzy concerning the location.
It seems everything was not as clear as you describe for them / or they said what they wanted

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 21):
The GPS feature in your cell phone most likely takes its information from cell phone towers in the area, not actual GPS satellites. Even if the program does receive GPS satellite information, the ability to locate the device is based on the phone keeping in contact with cell phone towers.

Again you're right
My point is if we can get satellite info on a cellphone, and communicate back to cellphone network, maybe a plane can receive GPS signal and communicate back via communication satellite with ops center

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 21):
The GPS satellites do not have the ability to receive a signal from your device. They do not know where any civilian device on the earth is located.

I know...

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 22):
I question the reliability of such systems because the aircraft, like all AF birds, was set to transmit a GPS verified position report every 10 minutes

Now does it cost that much to make it every minute rather than every ten minutes?
And even? couldn't it help?

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 22):
From the BEA prelim report, the failure of the plane to send position reports for over an hour did not raise any major concern in the AF operations center. I wish the report had indicated when the AF ops center insitituted lost aircraft procedures. Even to the end, the AF team was focused on lost communications and a plane continuing on to CDG more than search and rescue.

That's a very good point.
It made me so angry when they were "pretending" the plane might be somewhere because "it happens" to lose a plane for hours = that's what AF was insisting to say on the fatal day.
There was even a ridiculous controversy about Dakar taking radio responsibility of the plane / or not...like it was important once the plane was seen nowhere



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25 RFields5421 : I don't know what the cost is. I would love to see some real data about the reliability of ACARS system transmissions from beyond the range of VHF or
26 Richierich : What an odd response to a statement! It is true though... Is anybody still searching for the black boxes, either officially or unofficially? I would
27 RFields5421 : I don't know the law in Brazil or France, nor how the Warsaw Pact and subsequent modifications impact this case, but..... normally when a crash is ru
28 AF2323 : No search in ocean at the moment, but they are preparing the third search campaign. As you said, it will be a daunting task to find the black boxes.
29 Airxliban : I don't want to get involved in any theories about whether Airbus or Air France know the cause of the crash and are not saying anything, nor do I have
30 Kaiarahi : There are 22 AF447 threads on a.net which examine in great detail (A330 tech specialists, pilots, etc) the issues raised on this thread.
31 DocLightning : No, if a phone says that it has "GPS" then it has GPS. There is one and only GPS and that is the satellite system. The GPS system does have some wide
32 OzGlobal : The investigation has affirmed the aircraft hit the water at close to a normal orientation, at high velocity and have ruled out an in-flight breakup
33 Bennett123 : I seem to recall that BA had a system where the data was transmitted back continously, (telemetry?). Would this have helped?
34 Kaiarahi : So let's reinvent the wheel ....
35 Slz396 : What I find the most shocking in all of this saga is that a modern nuclear submarine of a NATO memberstate, equiped to detect even the smallest suspi
36 Revelation : My point was, just because it's technically possible for AF to send GPS position reports every 10 minutes, we can't presume it'd be "technically poss
37 DocLightning : If Youtube can store all those videos of people driving their cars around and laughing and speaking jibberish and fifteen "Chemtrails" videos... and
38 Loalq : Black boxes were found in similar conditions before, check the case of SA295 back in 1987. A third-party company was hired to do the job two months af
39 Kaiarahi : Ahhh ... it didn't take long for the conspiracy theories to surface. Try looking for the CVR/FDR in an underwater mountain range ....
40 Kaiarahi : Again - check out the previous 22 threads, where the technical parameters/constraints of doing this are discussed at length. And again, for whatever
41 Prebennorholm : Submarines don't detect radio waves. They detect sound or ecco from sound. Radio waves don't penetrate water over anything but the shortests distance
42 RFields5421 : I've worked with the US Navy SOSUS system - it does not have that capability. The systems on submarines are even more limited. These orange boxes fel
43 Post contains links Varig md-11 : People ask them not to release conclusions but to communicate more accurately which has always been a problem with the BEA During the first meeting w
44 Kiwiandrew : I was always under the impression that the black boxes were eventually located almost exactly a year after the crash . I believe also that the topogr
45 UALWN : Now, without reading the article, let me guess who made that statement: a pilot union? Do I get a prize for guessing correctly?
46 Max777geek : If you're wondering that a "ground level" shutoff valve setting at 30k+ft would be a pressure loss that's high likely, to me, while breaking the airp
47 DocLightning : I understood the poster who whom I was replying as saying that there was just too much data to process and store.
48 2175301 : Keep in mind... Although not common - AF447 could well have been downed by a meteor or several other possibilities. The loss of AF447 may have not inv
49 RFields5421 : One change we were already seeing before this crash was the move to more than one set of FDR/CVR in the aircraft. New designs have at least two sets,
50 Lightsaber : To my knowledge, all government search vessels have left the search area. It would be a miracle. But they also need to know within a few miles where
51 AF2323 : Obviously, some people want them to say the Pitot tubes alone caused the crash. That would be making conclusions. Without commenting on the source of
52 BrouAviation : You are right on the latter, but wrong on the first part. My HTC Touch Pro2 doesn´t need any network coverage to determine it´s location were ever
53 RFields5421 : ?? The Hubble Space Telescope orbit is approx 353 miles above the earth surface. It has gone no farther from the planet. As far as other objects whic
54 BrouAviation : Ah, my bad. Wrong example. You was right in your conclusion: But this: Wasn't correct. I'm sorry for being unclear. Still, when an aicraft knows wher
55 Kaiarahi : AF447 did exactly that via ACARS. However, there were no transmissions during the last X minutes of flight (loss of power? etc?). So who knows which
56 Nwafflyer : Interesting to see this October thread on AF 447, but where are Mandala and the other people from the first 22 threads?
57 Ag92 : I haven't read many posts but on AF 447 here is my view, If it is known the problem which caused the flight to crash, it must be resolved, and if this
58 Revelation : Well, the Hubble will take years for drag to slow it down enough to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere and it to burn up, yet an airplane can plunge fro
59 BrouAviation : Exactly! You see my point? Clearly the system of audio pings and black boxes isn't suitable for this kind of situations! I didn't say it's small, I s
60 Nwafflyer : Again, I would ask where is Mandayla and the other people from the earlier threads - I respected their opinions greatly, I would really like to hear t
61 Olympic472 : A question regarding this reply: Is this chain-of-events a guess, or is this a realistic scenario for the systems in modern jetliners?
62 Euclid : This is not quite true. The single box that was found (the CVR) was found one year to the day after the crash. The FDR was never found. To the best o
63 Moriarty : I've always been fascinated by crash investigations (I'm not morbid just interested the technical aspects of how to determine what brings an aircraft
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