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Unusual LAX Flight Ops  
User currently offlineMakeMinesLAX From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 559 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Yesterday (Sun Oct 4) just before midnight, QF 12 (388 to SYD) departed to the east and passed over our house in the South Bay. When I replayed the LAX WebTrak activity from this time period, I noted that this was the only such eastward departure. It occurred on 7R (!), while there was a steady stream of arrivals on 24R, including a 744 which approached from the southwest and made a parallel turn in the opposite direction. The south complex returned to its typical westbound operations right away. Interestingly enough, this one-off departure was preceded by TN 101 (343 to PPT) and NZ 19 (763 to RAR) and followed by QF 94 (744 to MEL) on 25R.

Was this special handling done out of concern for separation and/or wake turbulence? The flight path did put the A380 on a more southerly track than the other flights headed to the South Pacific.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Several times a year LAX has easterly ops when there's strong Santa Ana winds blowing out of the west. However what you observed is quite interesting although in the past I've noticed the same trend while I was watching the Passur flight tracker with QF and UA aircraft to Oz.

User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2387 times:



Quoting 747fan (Reply 1):
I've noticed the same trend while I was watching the Passur flight tracker with QF and UA aircraft to Oz.

I can't remember the reason, but I've seen the same thing. All involving flights to Oz, as well. In fact, I posted the same question awhile ago and got some responses, but I can't seem to find the post now...


User currently offlineCrjflyer35 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

At first I thought maybe it was a slope issue, but checking LAX's diagram, there is only about 20 feet of difference in elevation between 7R and 25L.


Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Short answer: winds

05 Oct 1:53 am 56 47 72 E 8 10.00 SCT028 1011.3 29.87 29.744
05 Oct 12:53 am 57 48 72 E 10 10.00 FEW020 1010.9 29.86 29.734 66 56
04 Oct 11:53 pm 56 48 75 ESE 10 10.00 FEW020 1010.6 29.85 29.724
04 Oct 10:53 pm 58 49 72 E 13 10.00 FEW020 1009.9 29.83 29.704 63 58
04 Oct 9:53 pm 59 48 67 NE 7 10.00 CLR 1009.6 29.82 29.694

Sustained period of easterly winds that pushed the envelope for a westerly departures for those ladened transpac departures.

QF 12 wasn't the only flight affected. CX 883 and KE 012 both departed the 7s post 00:30. Probably were others, but I was lights out approx. 00:45  zzz 



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21413 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

LAX's runways are longish, rarely wet, rarely hot, and at a low elevation. So other than a near MTOW loaded heavy (heading to Oz or Asia), planes can land and take off with a tailwind component most of the time here.

It's preferred that flights take off over the ocean for noise reasons (and "no turns until past shore line"). And late at night, most planes can land from the West even if the wind is coming from the West for the same reasons (noise, long runways).

But when the winds are coming from the East like they have been here (bringing welcome cool air, so not a true Santa Ana event), those same Asia and Oz heavies (as well as some heavily loaded HNL birds) will take off against the flow of traffic.

And of course, on very strong wind days, all ops will reverse, but then, that's not against the flow, that's just a reversed flow.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMakeMinesLAX From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2110 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 4):
Sustained period of easterly winds that pushed the envelope for a westerly departures for those ladened transpac departures.

QF 12 wasn't the only flight affected. CX 883 and KE 012 both departed the 7s post 00:30. Probably were others, but I was lights out approx. 00:45

If that was the case, isn't it odd that a QF 744 (probably an -ER, since it was bound for MEL) departed westbound four minutes after the 388 took off? Perhaps the tower was dealing with wind thresholds and the details of who taxied where.

At any rate, it's fun to watch how ATC managed the airspace. If anyone's interested, here's the URL so you can see for yourself:

http://lax.webtrak-lochard.com/template/index.html

Select "Replay" and run from 23:41 through 23:56 on Oct 4. Here are some highlights:

23:41:11 - TN 343 departs 25R
23:48:09 - NZ 763 departs 25R
23:51:32 - QF 388 departs 7R
23:51:51 - QF 388 and CI 744 pass in opposite directions - look at the dB readings!
23:52:52 - QF 388 and DL 763 pass at same altitude (2300 ft)
23:54:22 - QF 388 passes through same location (4400 ft) where a PA-32 was about 90 seconds earlier
23:55:22 - QF 744 departs 25R, on a parallel track with QF 388


User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2089 times:



Quoting MakeMinesLAX (Reply 6):
If that was the case, isn't it odd that a QF 744 (probably an -ER, since it was bound for MEL) departed westbound four minutes after the 388 took off?

Could've been a light load last night.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineSwivelHeadLAX From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

As I understand it, the departures requested Runway 7L due to the effect the winds had on their particular performance at that time.

User currently offlineONTFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

I was at Imperial Hill last night and noticed a sustained wind out of the east and was quite surprised that more of the Trans-pac ops didn't depart from the 7's. With the tailwind though you could certainly notice they were using just a bit more runway than normal


Doin' just fine thanks...
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