Packcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8794 times:
This idea was brought on by an off hand comment someone made in another thread, and some comments in some other threads.
So to all of you airline experts that know more about fleets, routes, and operations than I do.....
Could an airline make use of a small jet. Think along the lines of a large buisness jet, or a CRJ/ERJ size with Intercontinental range.
With airlines attempting to serve secondary markets internationally, and not needing 767/A330 or larger sized aircraft, many airlines try international routes with the 757, and even smaller aircraft (the all business class A319, A318, 737) could this be a solution in the future?
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2174 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8778 times:
I don't think so, it just isn't efficient from an airline's perspective. A very small long range airliner will always have a significant CASM disadvantage because of the efficiencies gained/lost by the scalability of technology. With modern-era airline alliances, airlines can ship off an international passenger to their partner's hub, from which they can take a connecting short-haul flight.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2174 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8542 times:
Yes on these thin border flights (Caribbean, Canada, Mexico, US) RJ's are useful. But the gist of the OP's post was directed at longer flights.
Quoting Packcheer (Thread starter): With airlines attempting to serve secondary markets internationally, and not needing 767/A330 or larger sized aircraft, many airlines try international routes with the 757, and even smaller aircraft (the all business class A319, A318, 737) could this be a solution in the future?
Specifically, Intercontinentally I see the A320/B737 series as the smallest a/c that would ever gain traction. And this is only on a limited case, as we see most of these current flights are all-business class. Only AF and QR (others?) operate mixed-class A319s on intercontinental routes. So I suspect the smallest mixed-class airplane to fly intercontinentally on a more widespread basis will be the 757-200.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4305 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8088 times:
Since these aircraft are not efficient by any means, this only can work when the ticket prices can be very high. London City - New York is an example that might fill 2 28-seaters a day, and that is the prime long range connection. So we have direct connections that just have a handful of passengers a week. This is done daily, and is called business jets. There are many Challenger, Gulfstream, Falcon, Learjet and Cessna out there flying prime passengers long range direct to their demands. Wait for them if the meeting takes longer. As scheduled service, I don't see a chance, I'm convinced that with ongoing airline mergers the average aircraft will become bigger, not smaller.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4210 posts, RR: 36 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7618 times:
Even the intercontinental A-319 and 737 flights have pretty high ASM costs, in the current aircraft you can´t carry max seats and cargo and the fuel for an intercontinental flight, so you for instance have to put fewer seats in.
Plus with the hot meals, IFE passengers expect on these routes, the aircraft have to be refitted to cater for that, probably need an extra flight attendant, further lower the revenue passengers and cargo it can take.
Then there is increased time needed for customs paperware. The pilots who have to be senior and certified with overwater operations will be better paid then the puddle jumpers. Plus you have relatively much staff (2 pilots and at least 2 F/As) needed to be put in hotels. Plus the outstation still needs staff, for instance if a standalone airline like JetBlue, FlyBe or Baboo start ERJ or CRJ or even Emb 190 flights between New York and Geneva, London or Amsterdam, they need to hire staff at the outstation for ticketing, administation, PR etc, costs which would be very high to cover by only say 40 passengers a day.
So that´s why you´ll usually only see aircraft carrying more then 170 pax on flights over 5 hours.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6640 times:
I think the current flight operated by BA from LCY-JFK (through SNN) will be the smallest aircraft (A318) doing a First class only flight.
If you operate a small a/c (50 seater size) on a long intercontinental route you can only carry a few pax (5-10) to allow for increased range. A very rough guess for operation cost of a small jet on a 7hr flight NYC-London would be $5000/hr ($35k total). Split between 8 people would be $4375 each way for a NYC-London route. $8750 roundtrip.
The BA operated flight LCY-SNN-JFK and JFK-LCY round trip would cost about $10k with a total of 32 seats available. If you are more concerned with the plane waiting for you when you are late, and coming/going on your schedule as opposed to the airlines then go with a charter bizjet, if you want a really comfortable and large aircraft go with the BA flight.
KingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1283 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6019 times:
I've taken RJs MCO-NAS (DL Connecton/Chautaqua E145), IAH-MEX (COEX/XE E45X), MZT-IAH (COEX/XE E145), and if you consider the E-175 a RJ then AC YUL-LGA. I know there are a lot of flights to Canada using RJs.
Here in ROC, AC has Beech 1900Ds flying to YYZ; that's international
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6862 posts, RR: 29 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5947 times:
Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 14): Is there special equiptment on this flight vs intra-continental flight (ie: life rafts)
I don't know if those routes require adidng HF/SECAL radios. It is about 500 nm across open water, but how much is out of the range of VHF radios, I don't know. Part of the route is close enough to Cuba to use their ATC.