Breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1931 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13835 times:
I wonder what happen to my original thread which felt out of the sky.
After ridiculing Fell Air about their plans for low-cost long-haul services, Norwegian announces today their inetention to do the same:
They are discussing about leasing 4 A330 or B767, with a fleet target of 15 units eventually.
The services will be initially from Oslo to Bangkok, New York and Beijing.
The intended starting date is 2011 latest.
The improvement of the economical situation is a prerequisite to the launch.
Manfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13557 times:
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1): - I'd sure love to see an A330 in their colours, would look beautiful.
I concur, what a beauty! Interesting choice of airplanes too with the 767 in the mix, perhaps the 764 would be a neat choice (if they are still being made)
Are they going with new aircraft or purchasing from someone else?
CO38 From Norway, joined May 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13376 times:
Quoting Affirmative (Reply 3): Would probably be the last nail in the coffin for SAS.. At least their norwegian operations..
Not necessarly; SKs long haul ops represents about 50% of their losses. DY might do SK a favour if this discourage SAS to continue long haul. (At least until they get reorganised and get new planes that they can make money of, and that actually fit their need)
I guess DY got caught by surprise by Feel Air. Bjørn Kjos went out and said long haul low cost cant be profitable (at least not in the Norwegian market) and that theyve studied it before, and determined it couldnt be done. And now the want to launch services after all (at least when the market impproves)
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12950 times:
I think DY might be successful in this. If they can get hold of some B763ER or even some B762ER to start the venture off with, the costs won't be prohibitive.
The B763ER/762ER are still pretty useful aircraft, if they put in 200-275 seats with 24 of them being Y+ seats or something like that. I don't think full-flat sleeper seats are necessary.
They can start off by flying to DXB with the B767s and then start NYC, BKK etc.
From what I've heard, the SAS B763ERs flying OSL-EWR went pretty full in Y year-round but yields were too low. Then again, their 190-seat B763ERs had only 130-ish(?) Y seats, so one can wonder if DY will be able to fill 200+ Y-seats at decent yields... but then again, they are attracting new pax like bees to a honey pot.
Fornebu From Norway, joined Aug 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12348 times:
I have no doubt that Norwegian would be able to feed and to fill passenger planes to and from Oslo, Copenhagen and Stockholm in the near future.
We live in a world that today the magic of a button from a pricing standpoint is make or break and airline, by that I mean as a savy pricing structure and with the latest in web technology you have the power to adjust pricing based on inventory at a moments notice.
With Kjos at their helm i see his business is nothing new, Richard Branson, Freddy Laker and the guy from southwest have gone before him. I would welcome Norwegian into the inter continental feeder system with scheduled departure to and from New York, Miami, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Dubai to name a few.
The Scandinavian vacation hungry customers are always ready to travel at a moments notice, just see Ryanair's load factors to and from Torp and now Rygge.
It is evident that a low cost airlines would be able to sustain a traditional growth as long as the pricing is reasonable enough during the off peak season.
Summer pricing to and from Norway during the summer only 5 years ago was at nearly $ 1200 to 1500 per pax to and from east coast, with sept 11th and the following years low occupancy the price range dropped to $ 600 to 900 mark.
The feeder system that Norwegian have is a perfect match to move into a more lucerative maket on the intercontinental routes. Let's be reminded it's not the passengers that they make money on, it and always will be cargo. Fresh fish, same day delivery of parcels, these are the things that bring money and it is good money. I have personnaly worked for Fedex for several years and I know what they are able charge and have been for years.
If and when Norwegian starts up is based on market conditions and from Scandinavia it should be good. Sas have always had a monopoly of routes, but with the open skies in Europe other carriers might come and flex their muscles to. Let's not forget that if Richard Branson saw a possible opening in Scandinavia or decided to start a feeder service for his inter contintnental flights that Norwegian would then have a problem. I travel about 10 to 15 times internationally a year and I choose Virgin from London. Why do i fly to and from London, spend the night and travel onwards with the best airline in the world, simply because of service, style and a dedication from their employees that is second to none.
Good luck to you Norwegian and to Feel Air, hope you both will gain and gain a lot of customers!.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12318 times:
Interesting news Breiz. You have been right with many things concerning DY!
I remember sending a letter prior to their order for 737-800 and said I believe it would be a good strategy to go long haul for their low cost operations. I gave clues as to what routes could be profitable from Oslo, but I never heard anything from them.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1931 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11816 times:
One comment Bjørn Kjos had about Feel Air was that they would lack a feeder system to make their long-haul operation succeed.
In that respect, Norwegian looks better placed as it can drain people from most of the main Norwegian towns and possibly Swedish ones as well.
Of course, Norwegian may have to abandon their LCC philosophy about connections being passenger's responsibility.
Affirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9632 times:
Quoting CO38 (Reply 4): Not necessarly; SKs long haul ops represents about 50% of their losses. DY might do SK a favour if this discourage SAS to continue long haul. (At least until they get reorganised and get new planes that they can make money of, and that actually fit their need)
Well, sure it will be a favor for the Norwegians but I doubt SAS considers it a favor for them, market share lost is always market share lost.. And SAS has nothing to compete with. They're the unorganized giant that's just standing ringside looking at new players having a field day with their home market..
In terms of fleet I think picking up some used 772/A would be suitable. There are quite a few of those lying around.. And I think they would cover the needs pretty good, especially on the North America routes. Depending on how much cargo they shift they could probably do most of the planned routes with them, and from what I understand they are quite cheap nowadays. Otherwise the A332 would obviously be a perfect fit..
GrinddalCPH From Denmark, joined Sep 2009, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8632 times:
I Don't know if I like this?
First off all, ever heard the term, never take on to many business areas!
They should stik with what they are good at! Short to Medium haul LCC.
Most people don't mind flying lower quality when its short haul.
I often fly DY in Europe, and to be honest, the inflight service, and seating is equal to SAS, only thing annoying me, is that when you for example fly to amsterdam, you get stuck into the remote boring low cost carrier terminal.
Still, to me, Long Haul is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT market!
Most people like more service, more comfortable seats, PTV's and certainly not BOB.
NOW I know some people don't mind lesser service for lesser money.
BUT out of OSL, ARN and CPH, is the market big enough?
Allot of SAS's customers out of CPH and ARN who fly long haul, are business customers.
Will they settle for DY Y class, even in times of ressesion?
I mean surely, they must be targeting the leisure travellers?
And I do not hink the market is big enough.
Even leisure, I still don't mind paying more for a comfortabl flight.
Maybe if they contract with traveling agensies? and do charter?
I just do not see this working.
If they do, and the long haul part goes wrong, it will damage the company overall, and drag down the rest of the company.
By doing this, they pressure airlines with better service, to downgrade their service along with prices, I stil want the choice.
And, are they gonna go all Y class?
At least they could offer Y+
Im sorry, I just do not se this working...
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway!