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Norwegian Prepares For Long-haul Services  
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13608 times:

I wonder what happen to my original thread which felt out of the sky.
After ridiculing Fell Air about their plans for low-cost long-haul services, Norwegian announces today their inetention to do the same:
They are discussing about leasing 4 A330 or B767, with a fleet target of 15 units eventually.
The services will be initially from Oslo to Bangkok, New York and Beijing.
The intended starting date is 2011 latest.
The improvement of the economical situation is a prerequisite to the launch.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13357 times:
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Good luck to them, they seem a fairly well run airline from what I can see.

Quoting Breiz (Thread starter):
They are discussing about leasing 4 A330 or B767

- I'd sure love to see an A330 in their colours, would look beautiful.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13330 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
- I'd sure love to see an A330 in their colours, would look beautiful.

I concur, what a beauty! Interesting choice of airplanes too with the 767 in the mix, perhaps the 764 would be a neat choice (if they are still being made)
Are they going with new aircraft or purchasing from someone else?



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineAffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13238 times:

Would probably be the last nail in the coffin for SAS.. At least their norwegian operations..


I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlineCO38 From Norway, joined May 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13149 times:



Quoting Affirmative (Reply 3):
Would probably be the last nail in the coffin for SAS.. At least their norwegian operations..

Not necessarly; SKs long haul ops represents about 50% of their losses. DY might do SK a favour if this discourage SAS to continue long haul. (At least until they get reorganised and get new planes that they can make money of, and that actually fit their need)

I guess DY got caught by surprise by Feel Air. Bjørn Kjos went out and said long haul low cost cant be profitable (at least not in the Norwegian market) and that theyve studied it before, and determined it couldnt be done. And now the want to launch services after all (at least when the market impproves)  Confused


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3997 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12789 times:

Exiting news for sure !

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12723 times:
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I think DY might be successful in this. If they can get hold of some B763ER or even some B762ER to start the venture off with, the costs won't be prohibitive.

The B763ER/762ER are still pretty useful aircraft, if they put in 200-275 seats with 24 of them being Y+ seats or something like that. I don't think full-flat sleeper seats are necessary.

They can start off by flying to DXB with the B767s and then start NYC, BKK etc.

From what I've heard, the SAS B763ERs flying OSL-EWR went pretty full in Y year-round but yields were too low. Then again, their 190-seat B763ERs had only 130-ish(?) Y seats, so one can wonder if DY will be able to fill 200+ Y-seats at decent yields... but then again, they are attracting new pax like bees to a honey pot.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineDarr34 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12176 times:

Great airline, I too reckon they can be the first (semi) low cost airline to make flights across the pond work.

Will it be along similar lines to AirAsiaX ? i.e. pay for everything on board?

Despite my thinking that it's only EZY and FR have enriched my life with cheap flights, thanks to DY I visited Tromso for a very reasonable price last year, somewhere that I have always wanted to go.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33053 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12122 times:



Quoting Darr34 (Reply 7):
Great airline, I too reckon they can be the first (semi) low cost airline to make flights across the pond work.

AirBerlin has been making it work for a while now.



a.
User currently offlineFornebu From Norway, joined Aug 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

I have no doubt that Norwegian would be able to feed and to fill passenger planes to and from Oslo, Copenhagen and Stockholm in the near future.
We live in a world that today the magic of a button from a pricing standpoint is make or break and airline, by that I mean as a savy pricing structure and with the latest in web technology you have the power to adjust pricing based on inventory at a moments notice.

With Kjos at their helm i see his business is nothing new, Richard Branson, Freddy Laker and the guy from southwest have gone before him. I would welcome Norwegian into the inter continental feeder system with scheduled departure to and from New York, Miami, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Dubai to name a few.
The Scandinavian vacation hungry customers are always ready to travel at a moments notice, just see Ryanair's load factors to and from Torp and now Rygge.
It is evident that a low cost airlines would be able to sustain a traditional growth as long as the pricing is reasonable enough during the off peak season.
Summer pricing to and from Norway during the summer only 5 years ago was at nearly $ 1200 to 1500 per pax to and from east coast, with sept 11th and the following years low occupancy the price range dropped to $ 600 to 900 mark.
The feeder system that Norwegian have is a perfect match to move into a more lucerative maket on the intercontinental routes. Let's be reminded it's not the passengers that they make money on, it and always will be cargo. Fresh fish, same day delivery of parcels, these are the things that bring money and it is good money. I have personnaly worked for Fedex for several years and I know what they are able charge and have been for years.

If and when Norwegian starts up is based on market conditions and from Scandinavia it should be good. Sas have always had a monopoly of routes, but with the open skies in Europe other carriers might come and flex their muscles to. Let's not forget that if Richard Branson saw a possible opening in Scandinavia or decided to start a feeder service for his inter contintnental flights that Norwegian would then have a problem. I travel about 10 to 15 times internationally a year and I choose Virgin from London. Why do i fly to and from London, spend the night and travel onwards with the best airline in the world, simply because of service, style and a dedication from their employees that is second to none.

Good luck to you Norwegian and to Feel Air, hope you both will gain and gain a lot of customers!.


User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12091 times:

Interesting news Breiz. You have been right with many things concerning DY!  Smile

I remember sending a letter prior to their order for 737-800 and said I believe it would be a good strategy to go long haul for their low cost operations. I gave clues as to what routes could be profitable from Oslo, but I never heard anything from them. Sad



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineDarr34 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11766 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
AirBerlin has been making it work for a while now.

Oops, always forget about them!


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11705 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
AirBerlin has been making it work for a while now.

Air Berlin is nowhere near to low cost on longhaul flights.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11589 times:

One comment Bjørn Kjos had about Feel Air was that they would lack a feeder system to make their long-haul operation succeed.
In that respect, Norwegian looks better placed as it can drain people from most of the main Norwegian towns and possibly Swedish ones as well.
Of course, Norwegian may have to abandon their LCC philosophy about connections being passenger's responsibility.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11481 times:
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Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
or even some B762ER to start the venture

- I'd steer clear of these, minimum has to be a 767-300ER.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 13):
One comment Bjørn Kjos had about Feel Air was that they would lack a feeder system to make their long-haul operation succeed.

- He has a good point.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11231 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 13):
Of course, Norwegian may have to abandon their LCC philosophy about connections being passenger's responsibility.

They already sell connecting tickets. I flew last year ARN-OSL-BOO and back on the same ticket.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11086 times:



Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 15):
They already sell connecting tickets. I flew last year ARN-OSL-BOO and back on the same ticket.

That must be an exception for Swedish customers  Smile
Thanks for the info. I did not know.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10933 times:

Hmmm. If they get these long haul planes, could we expect a 787 order down the line?

On a side note, it really does seem that DY is slowly becoming Norway's de facto flag carrier...do they now exceed SK in market share?



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineCanyonBlue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10734 times:



Quoting Fornebu (Reply 9):
and the guy from southwest

His name is Herb Kelleher.


User currently offlineAffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9405 times:



Quoting CO38 (Reply 4):
Not necessarly; SKs long haul ops represents about 50% of their losses. DY might do SK a favour if this discourage SAS to continue long haul. (At least until they get reorganised and get new planes that they can make money of, and that actually fit their need)

Well, sure it will be a favor for the Norwegians but I doubt SAS considers it a favor for them, market share lost is always market share lost.. And SAS has nothing to compete with. They're the unorganized giant that's just standing ringside looking at new players having a field day with their home market..

In terms of fleet I think picking up some used 772/A would be suitable. There are quite a few of those lying around.. And I think they would cover the needs pretty good, especially on the North America routes. Depending on how much cargo they shift they could probably do most of the planned routes with them, and from what I understand they are quite cheap nowadays. Otherwise the A332 would obviously be a perfect fit..

Just my 2 øre..  Wink

A-firm



I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9262 times:



Quoting Affirmative (Reply 19):
In terms of fleet I think picking up some used 772/A would be suitable. There are quite a few of those lying around..

And of course some 777-200LR from Air India is available. Although it would have been too much of a plane. it would perhaps offer too many seats.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineGrinddalCPH From Denmark, joined Sep 2009, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8405 times:

I Don't know if I like this?  Confused

First off all, ever heard the term, never take on to many business areas!

They should stik with what they are good at! Short to Medium haul LCC.
Most people don't mind flying lower quality when its short haul.
I often fly DY in Europe, and to be honest, the inflight service, and seating is equal to SAS, only thing annoying me, is that when you for example fly to amsterdam, you get stuck into the remote boring low cost carrier terminal.

Still, to me, Long Haul is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT market!
Most people like more service, more comfortable seats, PTV's and certainly not BOB.
NOW I know some people don't mind lesser service for lesser money.
BUT out of OSL, ARN and CPH, is the market big enough?
Allot of SAS's customers out of CPH and ARN who fly long haul, are business customers.
Will they settle for DY Y class, even in times of ressesion?

I mean surely, they must be targeting the leisure travellers?
And I do not hink the market is big enough.
Even leisure, I still don't mind paying more for a comfortabl flight.

Maybe if they contract with traveling agensies? and do charter?
I just do not see this working.

If they do, and the long haul part goes wrong, it will damage the company overall, and drag down the rest of the company.

By doing this, they pressure airlines with better service, to downgrade their service along with prices, I stil want the choice.

And, are they gonna go all Y class?

At least they could offer Y+

Im sorry, I just do not se this working...



The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway!
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8312 times:

Sorry, but DY already does short-long-haul - OSL-DXB and ARN-DXB - flight time is 6+ hours.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 16):
Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 15):
They already sell connecting tickets. I flew last year ARN-OSL-BOO and back on the same ticket.

That must be an exception for Swedish customers
Thanks for the info. I did not know.

Well, customers from other countries can book connecting tickets too, but only connecting to Norway-Sweden cities and not DY other destinations  Sad

[Edited 2009-10-08 03:23:25]

User currently offlineGrinddalCPH From Denmark, joined Sep 2009, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8252 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 22):
Sorry, but DY already does short-long-haul - OSL-DXB and ARN-DXB - flight time is 6+ hours.

YES, but they still use the 737 on this route,

They are talking about LONG, long haul, and purchasing new and bigger aircrafts..



The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7684 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 16):
Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 15):
They already sell connecting tickets. I flew last year ARN-OSL-BOO and back on the same ticket.

That must be an exception for Swedish customers

Not just Sweden. They seem to offer connections across their network. You can book EDI-OSL-BGO for example as well



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
25 Sukhoi : If you look at the OSL,ARN & CPH to DXB you can preorder hot food or BOB. I think they can make a lot of money on the Duty Free. The charters from sc
26 Rockinflyer : Just a wish, but I'd love to see some nonstop service from Scandinavia to the U.S. west coast once again. Norwegian! LAX/SFO maybe? (Hey, I can ask, c
27 MAH4546 : LAX/SF are typically some of the larger trans-Atlantic markets from Scandinavia. In fact, in general, the top five for all the major cities, in some
28 Someone83 : This is a silly idea, which anyway won't materialize. Scandinavia has way to small population for long haul low costs operations to be profitable. The
29 Babybus : I don't know. I would love to see Oslo as a serious long haul airport but I just can't see it working. SAS have problems trying to maintain long haul
30 Mortyman : Well if anyone can do it, it is Norwegian and it's boss. Some years ago, no one thought anyone could touch SAS on domestic and shorthaul in / from No
31 SurfandSnow : Norway seems to be supporting its new long-haul services quite well - both US and TG seem to be doing quite well all things considered. I would imagin
32 Someone83 : Well, old Braathens was actually bigger than SAS on Norwegian domestic routes back in the days
33 Skyfellow : Iceland does not have the volume either, but Icelandair, though not necessarily low-cost, is doing very well with their long-haul offerings to North
34 CRJ900 : Perhaps DY should start by adding a few 737-900ER with 190-200 seats including Y+ seats or something and fly those as far away as possible. If that do
35 Robbie86 : Iceland is however located in such a way that every route is long-haul for IcelandAir
36 Skyfellow : Not true from everywhere in Europe to Iceland. But onwards to North America it would generally be true. My point is that Icelandair developed a busin
37 OkAY : Interesting news! Norwegian already has a good network of destinations in Europe, so feeder traffic is more or less covered with own metal. People ave
38 Skyfellow : Of course AY will have that say. Like you say I think DY has stayed out of AY's home turf so far, and for that very reason like you state, and I woul
39 Rockinflyer : I know. I was just hoping it could happen.
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