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Lambert Airport Adopts New Incentives Program  
User currently offlineStl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

Lambert Airport Commission adopted a new incentive program today aimed at luring new and existing airlines to add/expand service to the airport. According to the Airport director, the airport is in talks with six airlines that are interested in expanding at the airport, and some airlines are interested in adding service to BNA, SAN and SFO.

Also the airport announced that AeroMexico will be starting chartered service to both PVR and CUN in December through Funjet Vacations.

I have a feeling Southwest will be expanding when they open their schedule for the spring on Oct. 13. I would also love to see JetBlue come to St. Louis and AirTran expand here as well. Hopefully things will turn start to turn around for the airport.

Here is a link to the news articles detailing the new incentive program:
http://www.beloblog.com/KMOV_Blogs/r...irport-director-airlines-inte.html

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2009/10/05/daily40.html

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyBoy84 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 370 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

I read the article, and it is good to see airport officials doing something (anything) to stimulate the addition/expansion of service.

Still, in order for this to have a lasting effect, we have to have the support of the flying public - particularly business travel. We cannot expect airlines to take up residence (or additional residence) just because we have the runway and gate capacity; they need FULL PLANES and passengers paying something other than leisure fares!


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4247 times:
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Like i've said before, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see WN add flights between BNA and STL. Surely there is some way they could make that work even without incentives.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4228 times:



Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
Also the airport announced that AeroMexico will be starting chartered service to both PVR and CUN in December through Funjet Vacations.

That will be a very welcome addition from the spotter's perspective! It's reached the point where anything breaking up the string of RJ's is exciting, even though it's usually just an AA M80 or WN 737. Seeing a foreign airline in town, even if only for vacation charters, will be a nice change of pace.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4163 times:



Quoting Steex (Reply 3):
Seeing a foreign airline in town, even if only for vacation charters, will be a nice change of pace.

Both AM and MX divert into STL on a semi-regular basis, but you have to be lucky to catch them.

The P-D article said they were going to give incentive money to AM for these charters - does anyone have any clue why they are doing that? Since AM is coming regardless, it doesn't make much sense to me. Couldn't they have structured the program to reward only scheduled operations?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Well, this is certainly promising and a step in the right direction.

I hate to see that we now have to offer money or incentives to get airlines to fly here, showing a lack of demand, however if maybe we can support these new flights and services as mentioned above these new, returning services can actually stick around!

The "wanting to serve SAN, BNA, SFO" remark sounds like SWA, but who knows.

I am flying out of STL today, I'll talk to the Managers if I see them for SWA and see if they are hearing any future expansions also.

Alex

[Edited 2009-10-08 08:55:47]


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4084 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
The "wanting to serve SAN, BNA, SFO" remark sounds like SWA, but who knows.

SFO may be a bit too far and a bit too thin for WN, but SAN would probably work.

Quoting FlyBoy84 (Reply 1):
I read the article, and it is good to see airport officials doing something (anything) to stimulate the addition/expansion of service

Took them long enough. I guess they didn't see the writing on the wall around 2005.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4067 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):

SFO may be a bit too far and a bit too thin for WN, but SAN would probably work.

Anything from LAS-Northeast is just as far if not farther...

Not to mention, 376 passengers fly between STL-SFO a day, SFO does NOT have a non stop to a current wright amendment state, so SFO-DAL must stop twice. Between the OD and the ability to one stop connect SFO folks to DAL, gives it a greater incentive IMO.

Any other airline that flies STL-SFO would be just an odd ball/p2p route for them, except Virgin America.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4061 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 7):
Not to mention, 376 passengers fly between STL-SFO a day, SFO does NOT have a non stop to a current wright amendment state, so SFO-DAL must stop twice. Between the OD and the ability to one stop connect SFO folks to DAL, gives it a greater incentive IMO.

Well, I think that it could work, it would just be a matter of whether WN is willing and able to start it. I don't expect to see VX in STL anytime soon, as great as that would be, it won't happen.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4052 times:



Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):

I have a feeling Southwest will be expanding when they open their schedule for the spring on Oct. 13. I would also love to see JetBlue come to St. Louis and AirTran expand here as well. Hopefully things will turn start to turn around for the airport.

I think B6 is the most likely carrier. AirTran might work, too. For some reason, I don't see VX jumping in just yet. I think they are still growing their SFO operation and that diving into STL is too much too soon.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3974 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 7):
Not to mention, 376 passengers fly between STL-SFO a day, SFO does NOT have a non stop to a current wright amendment state, so SFO-DAL must stop twice. Between the OD and the ability to one stop connect SFO folks to DAL, gives it a greater incentive IMO.

All quite true, but I'm not sure why they'd do SFO and not OAK, where they have almost all the benefits of SFO plus the ability to connect folks up and down the west coast.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3939 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 7):
Any other airline that flies STL-SFO would be just an odd ball/p2p route for them, except Virgin America.

I think UA would disagree with that statement. However, it's unclear how that route would work out for them given their move away from mainline staffing at STL. It's not likely that STL-SFO could be flown by any of their RJ's with reasonable performance, but I think their contracts can allow seasonal mainline service without mainline employees.

Regardless, it should be interesting to see what develops at STL with these grants.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3912 times:



Quoting Steex (Reply 11):
It's not likely that STL-SFO could be flown by any of their RJ's with reasonable performance, but I think their contracts can allow seasonal mainline service without mainline employees.

It's pushing it for a stock CR7, but doesn't G7 have some ER CR7s? They should be able to do it; it's 500 nm less than their published range.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3833 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
It's pushing it for a stock CR7, but doesn't G7 have some ER CR7s?

Well, I don't really care to fly on GoJet or spend almost 5 hours on a CRJ. I'll take Shuttle America please. If their 175s are either LR or AR versions, they should be able to make it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
For some reason, I don't see VX jumping in just yet.

It doesn't fit with their business model. VS isn't really a low fare carrier in the same way as B6 or WN. They are really a lower cost legacy carrier. They have first class, a very nice coach product with all the extras (that you are willing to pay for) and do not fly to the secondary airports. Their routes are mostly premium heavy routes and they aren't screwing around in smaller cities. VX is all about skimming off of the top in bigger markets.

I was a bit surprised about the FLL announcement, and I think that it is the exception rather than the rule for them and I think that they would do far better in MIA. Anyway, all of this goes together to make me think that, as nice as it would be, VX will not be coming to STL anytime soon.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3827 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Well, I don't really care to fly on GoJet or spend almost 5 hours on a CRJ. I'll take Shuttle America please. If their 175s are either LR or AR versions, they should be able to make it.

If UA Express starts it (or any other flight from STL), G7 is a logical carrier to fly it; if G7 ever starts flying out of SFO, that might be the catalyst for an STL-SFO flight.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3803 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
If UA Express starts it (or any other flight from STL), G7 is a logical carrier to fly it;

They are, which is probably why I will not be flying UA out of STL. But, if they sent the E-jets, they would probably become my carrier of choice. Of course I'm probably in the minority.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3790 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
But, if they sent the E-jets, they would probably become my carrier of choice. Of course I'm probably in the minority.

I prefer the E-jets too, but if the choice is flying nonstop or connecting in Dallas, the calculus changes - especially with Y+ on the CR7s,



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
It's pushing it for a stock CR7, but doesn't G7 have some ER CR7s? They should be able to do it; it's 500 nm less than their published range.

According to the G7 website, their CR7's have a range of 2,000 nm, so that would make STL-SFO doable. That would suggest that the lack of G7 at SFO would be a bigger obstacle, but they should be able to overcome that if they really want to make it work.

It would be interesting to see what the economics would be on running STL-SFO-STL (as a turn back to STL) on the CR7, particularly in the winter. If it did well, they could potentially upgrade to a 319 during peak times of the year. They probably would only need to fly once daily on the route since UA already has the most direct connecting airport on STL-SFO in DEN.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

When you consider the fact that SAN just added a North American new-service incentive program, sounds to me like a SAN-STL would now be a very attractive route (even though I continue to believe the market would be successful even without incentives.)

I still think WN is the most logical entrant in this city-pair but I would have no problem seeing anyone step up...

bb


User currently offlineThreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AA ending SEA-STL in the near future?

AS would be a longshot to replace AA on SEA-STL - if Boeing corporate was still in SEA, that might be slightly more feasible. The trick is to get a meaningful yield, and I doubt that is possible given the lack of strong business ties between SEA and STL. Plus, AS probably has more attractive targets.

AA has been giving away the SEA-STL seats for peanuts. It was far cheaper to fly SEA-STL-ORD than nonstop SEA-ORD last weekend. Not cheap enough for me to do it, though.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3506 times:



Quoting Threeifbyair (Reply 19):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AA ending SEA-STL in the near future?

No, it is not being discontinued.



a.
User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 134 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3479 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Quoting Threeifbyair (Reply 19):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AA ending SEA-STL in the near future?

No, it is not being discontinued.

Although, without the second, seasonal nonstop in the market during the 2Q and 3Q peaks, the market will suffer from a nonstop seat deficit for 4-6 months out of the year. Even taking into account existing nonstop + connect demand, a single nonstop will barely address local O&Ds. The market can theorectically support an additional nonstop, but the key for a carrier like AS will be its ability to siphon the existing traffic flowing over ORD, DFW, and DEN onto to its own metal.

Quoting Threeifbyair (Reply 19):
AA has been giving away the SEA-STL seats for peanuts. It was far cheaper to fly SEA-STL-ORD than nonstop SEA-ORD last weekend. Not cheap enough for me to do it, though.

You can thank WN for those cheap fares. Also, there are business ties due to Boeing. That's the primary reason why AA isn't cutting SEA-STL altogether.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3345 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
No, it is not being discontinued

Which is pretty annonying. Just please cut the route. AA gets to cut another STL flight, but can codeshare. AS gets a new city. And the people who fly the route get to do it on AS instead of AA. No losers there.

Quoting Threeifbyair (Reply 19):
AS would be a longshot to replace AA on SEA-STL

They wouldn't be a long shot if AA left. In fact the whole thing would work out quite nicely.

Quoting Threeifbyair (Reply 19):
if Boeing corporate was still in SEA, that might be slightly more feasible.

Boeing still does send people between STL and SEA. Probably not enough to support a flight on its own, but I think it is a signifcant number.

Quoting Skedguy (Reply 21):
That's the primary reason why AA isn't cutting SEA-STL altogether.

That definitely has something to do with it, but Boeing doesn't have a contract with AA or anything like that.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
That definitely has something to do with it, but Boeing doesn't have a contract with AA or anything like that.

They don't, but for whatever reason, Boeing people seem to really like AA. I feel like I see Boeing bag tags or business cards on every AA STL-ORD flight I'm on, and I almost never see them on UA or WN.

[Edited 2009-10-09 08:19:06]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15477 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3259 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
They don't, but for whatever reason, Boeing people seem to really like AA.

It probably a combination of people with FF miles and the fact that AA has the nonstop. The employees are supposed to choose the cheapest fare, but a nonstop flight is a justifiable extra expense when time is money. I don't think that Boeing wants to risk the extra step and having their people miss connections.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Post contains links Kubus : Good luck to STL, cause PIT (with almost the same losses in service) is hopeless: Overall, the cost per enplanement, an industry benchmark, will soar
26 Stl1326 : It looks like Delta is upgrading capacity on its STL-SLC route. This looks in response to Southwest dropping the route. Starting Jan. 5, Delta will go
27 777STL : Not to mention AA is hubbed in Chicago, where Boeing HQ is - I'm sure that drives a lot of loyalty as well.
28 BMI727 : Not necessarily loyalty, but if AA flies nonstop to the two most common destinations for Boeing employees and some of them are sitting on hefty AAdva
29 LambertMan : San Francisco will absolutely return on some carrier. Thee decision to cancel it was one of those, IMO, "benefit of the doubt" situations. As we can
30 PC12Fan : Sweet! Be great to see the 90's back again. Friend of mine tells me that Aero Mexico will start flights to STL in December. A little good news finall
31 DeltaL1011man : I could see UA starting it 1x daily with a 319 like they did with MSP. Would be a nice add for them IMO. As for BNA znd STL that has WN all over it.
32 Stl1326 : I completely agree....I'm sure the 9th daily flight to DFW they added will be much more profitable....
33 Cubsrule : BNA-STL is an interesting route. It's a much larger local market than some of the other short-haul Connection routes, like IND (3x bigger) or MKE pre
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