JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4305 times:
JU's massing problems coupled with the likely Open Skies agreement implementation and the abolishment of Schengen Visas for Serbian nationals has obviously been a topic in many airline boardrooms recently and Serbia's biggest daily "Blic" today quoted the Deputy CEO of BEG Airport saying that Emirates, Fly Niki, Wizz Air and Malev have all made apparently official requests to operate to the Serbian capital.
According to the article, speculation is that the DXB-VCE flights could be routed via BEG. Again - speculation and we all know how spectacular journalism can be. Nevertheless, its front-page news and something is definitely cooking.
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4160 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 3): Hi JoKeR , could I ask where you got this figure from ? As a New Zealander I have to say that it seems pretty high to me .
I saw a TV program a while back on Serbian diaspora, and it claimed roughly 200K although many have apparently "diluted" among the New Zealand population (3rd, 4th generation); forgot the language (Serbian), changed their names and thus lost all ties to their homeland. I guess no one really knows the exact number.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4119 times:
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 5): and it claimed roughly 200K although many have apparently "diluted" among the New Zealand population (3rd, 4th generation); forgot the language (Serbian), changed their names and thus lost all ties to their homeland.
That ties in with my experience - I recall going to school with a number of "Yelaviches" ie 'Jelavic' with a New Zealandised spelling , worked with a few 'Antunoviches' and 'Dragiceviches' but most of them had no real connection to their roots and certainly didnt speak the language or consider themselves Serbian/Croatian/Jugoslavian. That doesn't really make them much of a market for EK though , does it ?
I do believe that Australia has a far higher percentage of population with Serbian/Croatian ancestry ( JU used to fly to MEL and SYD and for a while QF had a weekly stop in BEG ) but with the passage of time fewer of them feel any real connection with their ancestral homelands either .
Having said that I can still see EK making a BEG-DXB flight work as it would link their entire network to that part of Europe . Wasn't there a rumour a while back that EK were considering buying a stake in JU ?
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Luka From Serbia, joined Aug 2006, 173 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4052 times:
I can bet that EK wont be starting service to BEG anytime soon, especially with a new agreement between EK and JU being written up for next summer.
EK in Belgrade has suffered immensely after the airline unjustifiably (quite arrogantly) ended its agreement with JU thinking it no longer needed smaller European airlines as partners. EK has come to the point where they sell more tickets out of Slovenia than Serbia, which a year ago was not the case.
EK's agent representative in BEG has ben announcing flights to Belgrade for the past 7 years.
Putnik From Serbia, joined Aug 2007, 207 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4038 times:
Having in mind the current situation, it seems more probable for FlyDubai to open the route DXB-BEG than to see EK metal at Nikola Tesla Airport. Even the smallest aircraft EK has, A332, seems to be a serious overkill these days. JU was having 2 to 3 flights per week to UAE on B733. Jumping to anyone's A330 would be a serious upgrade. However, pairing BEG with some other European destination might work... just might.
Luka From Serbia, joined Aug 2006, 173 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3879 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12): Yes , but JU was carrying pax BEG-DXB , EK would be carrying pax BEG-DXB-the world . There is a big difference between the capacity a non-hub carrier and a hub-carrier can fill on the same sector .
JU was doing exactly the same through its deal with EK. Might I add that this sort of article is published on avarage twice per year (and always for some reason in Blic)
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3550 times:
UAE CAA officials and Emirates Airline representatives will arrive in BEG today to sign a bilateral air services agreement that will "see EK entering the Serbian market with flights to from DXB to BEG."
So it looks like BEG will be the first Eastern European point for the airline.
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3500 times:
First most of these immigrants came so long time ago that they wont be a factor for any airline starting traffic. They will if they visit their old countries visit as tourists, most will not have any family connections left.
I think there is some confusion about where the immigrants that moved to NZ came from. Its very different to the ones that we today find in Australia.
New Zealand have a fairly large group of people that came a long time ago from former Yugoslavia, I guess it was still Austria-Hungary at that time. The population have assimilated as you say but many still keep some pride over their heritage. Almost all came from a very small part of the dalmatian coast, one precise region in todays Croatia.
They are actually taken up as dalmatians in local censuses and still is but with Croatian in brackets.
They are a very successful immigrant group. Just think of all the -ich at the end of the names in parts of NZ. They are assimilated but have contributed tremendously to the country, espescially the Auckland region. they pioneered and for a long time (before the multinationals came in) controlled most of the wine-industry among other things.
5 generations later Northwest Auckland is still celebrating berba harvest festival with Croatian flags handed out and songs in school. In my local cornershop I could even buy Karlovacko beer.
The Villa Dalmatija first port of call for all immigrants from the dalmatian coast (excuse the spelling) is still being kept and used, its found in Newton central Auckland today.
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3285 times:
Media hype.... but apparently they wanted (and got) some TATL rights from BEG as well... now that's interesting!
Emirates Prepares To Fly from Serbia's Belgrade to Various Intl Destinations - Media
BELGRADE (Serbia), October 14 (SeeNews) – United Arab Emirates (UAE) plans to sign an agreement with Serbia on acquiring flying rights that would permit the Emirates airline to launch flights to about 100 destinations from Serbia’s capital Belgrade, Serbian daily Blic reported on Wednesday.
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3251 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 19): This would make EK almost a national carrier of Serbia, a country that is on its (long) way into the EU
Well Serbia would be one of the very few European countries that has an Open Skies agreement with the UAE. This would pave way not only for EK, but also EY and Air Arabia as well as flyDubai to utilize the accord for their own commercial gain. It is a significant development.
As far as EU entry, that is rumored by 2014 meaning roughly 4 years for EK to set-up and not be affected by potential new regulations which could be directed from Brussels thereafter.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4249 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3196 times:
While I would see 2014 as a very optimistic date, nevertheless it is time to set up now. Whoever starts new buisiness now will be on the upside of recovery, and who gives up a market will remain on the downsize.
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3159 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 21): Whoever starts new buisiness now will be on the upside of recovery, and who gives up a market will remain on the downsize.
Agree, and EK seems to have mastered this, both on aircraft orders and new destination launches.
What I find interesting in the whole story is the possibility that EK may be after Serbia's lucrative and liberal traffic rights to the US and Canada, the latter being a particularly painful topic for Emirates - can't get enough. JU will probably never fly these routes again, so why not, go wild EK!
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 22): What I find interesting in the whole story is the possibility that EK may be after Serbia's lucrative and liberal traffic rights to the US and Canada,
Just out of curiosity how liberal are these agreements ? Do they require a Serbian carrier to actually be Serbian ? Many bilaterals include what , for want of a better term , could be called a 'citizenship' clause , ie , in order to use the rights available for country X an airline must be based in X or be 'substantially owned' in X . If that sort of clause is present in the agreements between Serbia and the US and/or Canada then EK would probably not be able to utilise rights available for a Serbian carrier . Are you familiar with the wording of the relevant agreements ?
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2155 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3110 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 23): Are you familiar with the wording of the relevant agreements ?
That is true and you are right and honestly I'm not familiar with them; merely passing on what is being speculated, but what I can tell you is that previously, Uzbekistan Airways utilized the agreements on their TAS-BEG-JFK 763 flights... or so I was told.
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
25 JU068: If they do start the flights, what gate would they use at BEG? C5? Since I don't know if any other gates can fit a widebody. Could anyone guess what w
26 JoKeR: All C gates can accommodate a wide-body - that's where the DC-10s used to board from. Also, gate A1 is where I remember seeing IA, CA and QF 747s doc
27 Vlada: I've tried to Google the relevant document, but no luck - all I could find is the Agreement between former Yugoslavia and USA governments, in which,
28 JU068: I think I posted before a picture where you can see that they are expanding the taxi way around the C1 and A1 gates. Does anyone know what is happenin
29 PEET7G: I woud be absolutely amazed if BEG would be able to feed EK, QR and EY all at once... I even have doubts about EK being able to fill a widebody on a
30 JU068: PEET7G I don't think the loses would be that big. JU used to operate some time ago up to 5 weekly flight to DXB. Of corse those were on a 733 but I th
31 JoKeR: EK daily no, with or without VCE, but say the daily VCE flight routed thrice weekly via BEG - yeah that could work, and quite well probably. On the o
32 JoKeR: OK, state TV announced that its signed, sealed and delivered - Open Skies between Serbia and the UAE. The Serbian Minister also expressed hope that JU
33 JU068: Wishful thinking or not, it is the best solution for Jat. The only way they could be saved is if EK buys them, and turns them into a feeder airline. N
34 Burkhard: If you get an entry card into the US for free... JU sees what happens to the much larger and much better Swiss,Austrian,Brussels,BMI, KLM, Alitalia,I
35 Luka: Guys don’t get your hopes up with EK flights to BEG anytime soon, trust me. Also I can’t believe that some contributors, who have more aviation kn
36 MIgAiR54: No way........If they do that they won´t see any high yield pax because EY already has a direct flight, and Abu Dhabi is very close to DXB, When EK
37 JoKeR: Aaaaaahhhhhhh.... and theeerere you areeee.... I missed you man! Lets see why EK could/should open BEG flights. To do that, let's go back a few years
38 JU068: Great analysis Joker. I know this is off topic, but what do you think, could EgyptAir succede on the BEG market?
39 Luka: You are forgetting in your entire analysis that this route was extremely seasonal and only reached high capacity numbers during January, July, August
40 PEET7G: A good and detailed analysis, but as Luka wrote it misses a lot of important factors. If we use your Logic BUD should be receiving AA, DL and UA 777s
41 AlexEU: Serbian govt has rejected many EU carriers from flying to BEG, and now they are allowing a carrier from UAE to fly?! Doesn´t make sense. Serbia doesn
42 JU068: Well from what I can see, their AUH twice a week flight is not doing that bad. Usually we have a hard time finding seats on the flights. We will see n
43 AlexEU: And this is because it goes via LCA. If BEG-AUH flight was non-stop even 2x weekly would be a lot. Also, many Serbs that travel between SRB and UAE f
44 JU068: LCA doesn't get more than 60 pax in summer and 40 in winter. So we are not the ones filling the planes. Plus a lot of Serbs from Cyprus also connect t