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International Law Dilemma On Board?  
User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2535 times:

I apologize if the title does not reflect on the post, I tried to make it as relevant as possible but the question which I want to ask is

If Person A from Country Z kills Person B from Country Y on an aircraft registered with Country X and is traveling over Country W and is flying from Country V to Country U, which laws would apply in each scenario.

What if the aircraft is traveling over international airspace?

It is a question which intrigues me and on a similar note it can be asked with births as well.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2529 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

I don't know about the actual laws, but for practical purposes, the laws of wherever they land are what matter. This could be the actual destination, or some intermediate stop used because of the altercation onboard. Once on the ground the local police take over - and if they have a dead body and someone with blood on their hands, it's up to the local law enforcement to take care of the matter.

An example comes from a recent flight on Hawaiian from SYD-HNL; a very drunk passenger accosted some others and caused a problem. The flight made an unscheduled stop in Nadi Fiji, and the passenger was taken off by Fijian police. He's in their custody now, and subject to their laws even though the flight was between Australia and the US.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21080 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting Ag92 (Thread starter):
If Person A from Country Z kills Person B from Country Y on an aircraft registered with Country X and is traveling over Country W and is flying from Country V to Country U, which laws would apply in each scenario.

In an effort to cut out the Algebra:

An Argentinean kills a Canadian on a Northwest flight from Tokyo to Bangkok while flying over China (no offense to any involved nationalities intended).

I would agree with HAL that it would be the Chinese authorities who would handle things in that case.

Edit: should add that I assumed the airplane diverted to an airport in China. If the airplane landed in Vietnam, it would probably be the Vietnamese who would take care of things.

-Mir

[Edited 2009-10-08 09:15:26]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2409 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
I would agree with HAL that it would be the Chinese authorities who would handle things in that case.

But you see, that's only if the plane lands in China....what if they keep flying on and land at the ultimate destination, or some other country not even in the laundry list....?

It's quite complicated really......in case of births, I think the nationality of the parents is what applies to the child born on board.....

In each type of unique situation, the applicable laws would be different, right? After all, you don't legally enter a country until you pass immigration and your passport is stamped with an entry stamp.....


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21080 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2377 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
It's quite complicated really......in case of births, I think the nationality of the parents is what applies to the child born on board.....

IIRC, the child gets dual citizenship with the nationality of the parents being one and the nationality of the airplane (where it's registered) being the other.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3767 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2328 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
IIRC, the child gets dual citizenship with the nationality of the parents being one and the nationality of the airplane (where it's registered) being the other.

I don't think this is how it works.

If it was this way, you could start a business: Buy a small plane in the USA, register it there. Bring it to Mexico and charge pregnant women to have their baby while circling around the airfield. The baby will have US citizenship, and the parents can move to the USA. There are people in Mexico willing to pay thousands of $$ to cross the border illegally, and through this loophole, they could get the same legally for maybe hundreds of $$.

(Or am I the first to have this idea? Hm maybe I should start that business  Smile )

Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1339 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

This could potentially be a huge liability for the airline. What if, for example, all the countries involved (including the one that the plane was flying over at the time of the murder) didn't have the death penalty, except that country that the plane eventually diverts to does. Is the airline liable for taking the murderer to a country where he faces the death penalty as opposed to a lesser sentence?

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

Take a look at the Montreal and Warsaw Conventions.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineHAMtoSTR From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2212 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 7):
Take a look at the Montreal and Warsaw Conventions.

Take at look at the "Tokyo Convention on offences and certain other acts committed on board aircraft"

http://www.un.org/sc/ctc/pdf/conventions/Conv1.pdf


User currently offlineGoaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2185 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
IIRC, the child gets dual citizenship with the nationality of the parents being one and the nationality of the airplane (where it's registered) being the other.

There was a birth on an AMS BOS flight on NW acouple of years ago. The woman gave birth over Canada. They said the baby didn't have US citizenship, but may be able to claim Canadian citizenship.

The news was reporting the woman was trying to have the baby in the US so it would get citizenship and she wouldn't be sent home.. I never heard anymore on the woman, or if she did take the Canadian citizenship.


User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1339 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

The baby born over Canada did get Canadian citizenship as of right by being born "in Canada". Not sure if the mother went through the motions to get the paperwork, but even without it the baby is forever a Canadian citizen (unless it's renounced).

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1945 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
It's quite complicated really......in case of births, I think the nationality of the parents is what applies to the child born on board.....

IIRC, the child gets dual citizenship with the nationality of the parents being one and the nationality of the airplane (where it's registered) being the other.

That varies widely depending on the laws of the country of birth. For example, you don't automatically acquire Swiss citizenship if you are born in Switzerland, unless one or both parents is Swiss. There are tens of thousands of Swiss residents who were born in Switzerland, and whose parents, and in many cases, even their grandparents, were also born in Switzerland, but were not Swiss and have never applied for Swiss citizenship, so their children aren't Swiss either. However, I think once reaching age 18 they can apply for Swiss nationality under less restrictive conditions than if they were not born in Switzerland.

Since many countries do not permit dual nationality (Switzerland does), many people don't want to lose their original nationality if they're from a country that does not permit dual nationality.

As already mentioned, in case of criminal offenses committed on board an aircraft, as far as I know, the laws of the country where the flight first lands lands and where the person is arrested apply. Of course, in some cases, that country may decide to extradite the person to their country of citizenship which would then obviously have to assume jurisdiction in the case.


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