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Do F/A's Know Who Pays For F On Board  
User currently offlineCOEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 607 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15662 times:

Just wondering. With upgrades so big now a days, do F/A's know who is a full-fare F passenger, or who is elite or used miles, etc. Or do they just see every person as the same. I've always wondered when flying if the F/A knows I was bumped or if I paid full. I asked cuz I thought this may effect the type of service. I also recently read a trip report about a flight where they were served on it seemed elite status order.


Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15640 times:

Depending on airline, when the crews are handed the manifests it may show the fare class that the passengers have purchased, so in many cases they are aware.

But there are many airlines which will deliver the same service to all pax seated within a particular zone, as to not diminish the overall experience to those that have payed full fare for F.



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently offlineNws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15557 times:

At my airline we can tell, usually, sometimes things get wonky. We also have the upgrade list on our paperwork, even though we are not allowed to use it to upgrade passengers.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15499 times:



Quoting COEWR2587 (Thread starter):
Just wondering. With upgrades so big now a days, do F/A's know who is a full-fare F passenger, or who is elite or used miles, etc. Or do they just see every person as the same. I've always wondered when flying if the F/A knows I was bumped or if I paid full. I asked cuz I thought this may effect the type of service. I also recently read a trip report about a flight where they were served on it seemed elite status order.

I have never sensed that I was treated any differently as an upgraded pax, a paying pax, or an award pax in F or J on QF, CO or AA, and I've flown as both on all of them.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15450 times:

CO flight attendants have passenger manifests that reveal some information about the F/J passengers. As a non-revenue employee traveler, flight attendants often ask me about what I do for the company. They undoubtedly found this information from the manifest. The only time I have seen a tangible difference is during menu selection when they may offer the first choices to paying customers. On several occasions, they have told me that as a non-rev, I would be the last person to choose a meal. That's ok with me - I'm just happy for free first class flights!

User currently offlineCyberUAL From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15420 times:

I doubt that most airlines manifest will show who pays full fare, award, or upgrades. I know usually it will show the mileage status. As a ground staff, when there is a catering issue, I will print a manifest and not who is paid F or upgrades for f/a so they can handle their meal issue easier.

User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15173 times:



Quoting COEWR2587 (Thread starter):
With upgrades so big now a days, do F/A's know who is a full-fare F passenger, or who is elite or used miles, etc.

In my ideal world, the passenger who is on a full fare would always get the red-carpet treatment ahead of the others, and last on the list would be the "Waaah, I want my upgrade and if I'm don't get it I'm going to throw a tantrum".  Wink

Though last time I flew on the high-priced fares, there were people who had used frequent flier miles to get their better seats, but none of us were really treated any differently. The service was gracious and excellent (QF), regardless of our status.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15125 times:
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Quoting Modesto2 (Reply 4):
CO flight attendants have passenger manifests that reveal some information about the F/J passengers.

The manifests also identify elites by tier across both cabins.

[Edited 2009-10-12 02:13:42]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14959 times:

On BA CW in my xperience they appear to take the food orders working from the front of the cabin to the rear, thus I assume that everyone is treated equally regardless of the amount paid.

User currently offlineBojangles From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14829 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
On BA CW in my xperience they appear to take the food orders working from the front of the cabin to the rear, thus I assume that everyone is treated equally regardless of the amount paid.

Yes, we do the food order like that. However once the order is taken, and we are short of a starter or main, we select customers to apologise to and offer an alternative. Obviously staff/upgraded pax are selected first.


User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 745 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14826 times:

At BA we know who is upgraded & usually for what reason too. Also, our manifest shows full fare payers within each class cabin, frequent flyer level (& status score within that level), One World frequent flyer tiers, staff passengers & their status etc etc.


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14742 times:



Quoting Bojangles (Reply 9):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
On BA CW in my xperience they appear to take the food orders working from the front of the cabin to the rear, thus I assume that everyone is treated equally regardless of the amount paid.

Yes, we do the food order like that. However once the order is taken, and we are short of a starter or main, we select customers to apologise to and offer an alternative. Obviously staff/upgraded pax are selected first.

Seems a good system to me, that way no one is deliberately identified to their fellow passengers as an upgrade.

The last two times I've flown I've been the absolute last person to be asked for my choice, but have been successful, I assumed it was very good planning on behalf of catering, but now realise that an upgrade might have then been bumped as a result of my choice. This reinforces my ideal seat choice, as my only reservation was that I might be penalised on meal choice as a result of being in the last row.


User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13320 times:

Full fare payer doesn't necessarily mean he/she paid from his own funds.
Those are paid by companies in most cases, and by us, customer, in the very end.

I don't see why F/A should see any difference between these two categories.

I am just wondering what is share of pax paying from own savings (like celebrities, or like my friend whose dream is to pay $9,000 to fly from MOW to Rio in J class) on AF - and who is paid as part of their social status?


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13257 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 12):

Full fare payer doesn't necessarily mean he/she paid from his own funds.
Those are paid by companies in most cases, and by us, customer, in the very end.

I don't see why F/A should see any difference between these two categories.

I am just wondering what is share of pax paying from own savings (like celebrities, or like my friend whose dream is to pay $9,000 to fly from MOW to Rio in J class) on AF - and who is paid as part of their social status?

Does it matter ? Who cares whether the passenger has paid using their own funds, their employers, or as with many "celebrities" the ticket is part of their contract to carry out an engagement.

Surely the whole point is that full fare passengers ought to receive 1st chance at meal selections etc, before free upgrades.


User currently offlineB767300ER From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13232 times:
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From the manifest we are aware of the passengers status as well as S/A non-rev pax.
The only difference would be in the food selection as the paying pax, at any fare, goes
before the non-rev pax.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10434 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13033 times:



Quoting B767300ER (Reply 14):
From the manifest we are aware of the passengers status as well as S/A non-rev pax.
The only difference would be in the food selection as the paying pax, at any fare, goes
before the non-rev pax.

 checkmark 


I know at DL, the F/As would go thru F or C, asking the fare paying passengers first about their meal choices.......then they would go back and ask the non-revs....IF there were any meals left. Same held true for coach, when they still served meals back there.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineCschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12997 times:

When I've been a last minute upgrade on Alaska, they've often told me they might not have enough meals (when there is one these days!). But like said above, that's ok...I'm happy for the larger seat. In the end they usually do, though.

User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12925 times:

When I've been upgraded to BussnesFirst on Iberia, many times it's empty, but since it was last minute, they don't have F food, only Y. That's fine with me.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12773 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 15):

That doesn't happen. Sorry. I've flown dl enough as upgrade and full fare to debunk this garbage. They ask about meals front to back without hopping around to find full f pax first.

It would be a stupid policy to do as you say, because many pax we are upgraded got there by earning status by paying full in the past and will in the future. Selective descrimination is short sighted, as it could anger pax who would take their money elsewhere in the future.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12700 times:

From my experiences on UA in Biz Class, they jump around during taking meal orders based on mileage status. GS, then 1K, Premier Exec, etc.

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10434 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12648 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
Quoting Mayor (Reply 15):


That doesn't happen. Sorry. I've flown dl enough as upgrade and full fare to debunk this garbage. They ask about meals front to back without hopping around to find full f pax first.

It would be a stupid policy to do as you say, because many pax we are upgraded got there by earning status by paying full in the past and will in the future. Selective descrimination is short sighted, as it could anger pax who would take their money elsewhere in the future.

Well, bubba, I've flown as a non-rev on them for more than 33 years and at one time, they indeed DID do it just as I've said. Maybe not anymore, but they used to do it this way.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMauiman31 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12616 times:
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On AA they seem to stick to thier FEOB system based on the flight number regardless of fare or elite status. ???

User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12434 times:
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Quoting COEWR2587 (Thread starter):
Just wondering. With upgrades so big now a days, do F/A's know who is a full-fare F passenger, or who is elite or used miles, etc. Or do they just see every person as the same. I've always wondered when flying if the F/A knows I was bumped or if I paid full. I asked cuz I thought this may effect the type of service. I also recently read a trip report about a flight where they were served on it seemed elite status order.

On a recent United BWI-DEN trip on which I upgraded to F class with frequent flyer miles, the purser came to my chair and told me quite loudly that I could have my choice of breakfast entrees only after other passengers had selected theirs. I was in seat 1-B on a 752, so at that point they had not run out of entrees.

I know my name was on a printout the gate agent had given the purser since the purser addressed me by name. But what I don't know is if she could tell who was a customer service or gate upgrade, who had paid for their upgrades with miles, who had paid for their upgrades with promotional materials or e-certificates, or who had paid for their upgrades by credit card at the gate.

But I guess to the crew, "paid" means ticket price, and "upgrade" means freebie.  indifferent 


User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12247 times:
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Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 22):
On a recent United BWI-DEN trip on which I upgraded to F class with frequent flyer miles, the purser came to my chair and told me quite loudly that I could have my choice of breakfast entrees only after other passengers had selected theirs. I was in seat 1-B on a 752, so at that point they had not run out of entrees.

I know my name was on a printout the gate agent had given the purser since the purser addressed me by name. But what I don't know is if she could tell who was a customer service or gate upgrade, who had paid for their upgrades with miles, who had paid for their upgrades with promotional materials or e-certificates, or who had paid for their upgrades by credit card at the gate.

But I guess to the crew, "paid" means ticket price, and "upgrade" means freebie.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I upgraded to F on an IAD-MIA flight in August -- the flight was UAX flown by S5. Since meal service on longer UAX flights is simply a UA snack box turned out by the FA, I wasn't expecting anything spectacular. But after the door closed, the FA asked me for my ticket -- I suspected she thought I was a seat-jumper. She told me the gate agent never told her there would be upgrades and there was no snack box for me. However, the liqueur did flow on that flight.

So when we reached MIA, I could barely stand up, let alone complain about not having a snack box like the other F folks. I guess in all seriousness, I cost United more in alchohol than the cost of the snack box.  

[Edited 2009-10-12 08:46:15]

[Edited 2009-10-12 08:47:15]

User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2243 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12220 times:

I can't speak for every airline, but I have a system to get upgraded on AC that works a good percentage of the time. For a couple of last minute upgrades, I have been cautioned that if meals run low I might get an economy selection served me in J Class. IE a free selection from the economy pay list on a domestic flight. Usually someone doesn't show so I have never actually had to. However, I was on an international flight using an upgrade certificate and two last minute bump ups from an oversold economy were served the economy meal in Executive First. The only other option was to delay the flight to get 2 more J class meals delivered and that would have been very expensive for the airline. So obviously the FA knew exactly who those people were.

AC also knows VIP and very high mileage Aeroplan/Star members because the concierge often walks them onto the aircraft. Whether the manifest identifies them or not I can't say. But if a manifest identifies you by name it would be very easy to include other information in short from. A single letter by your name could identify your tier very easily.


25 Flyfree727 : AA is very simple.. Meal preferences are determined by the flight number.. Even flights preferences are forward- aft... Odd flight numbers preference
26 CokePopper : Mayor, You are correct Delta's procedures for Business and First USE to be this way. Now we are told to go from front to back on even # flights and B
27 Falstaff : Me neither. I have flown F on NW dozens of times. Sometimes I actually paid for it. Sometimes it was an upgrade, and sometimes it was just a upgrade
28 United1 : UA actually takes meal service requests based upon your status in the MP Program, and actually if there is an issue with running out of meals will se
29 Mayor : Sorry, but I clearly stated that I was talking about the difference between fare paying pax and non-revs and as Cokepopper says, DL USED to do it thi
30 Airbuske : For non-rev travel on DL/NW, it is still done today but from my experiences, only if the cabin is quite full and meal choice might turn on be a probl
31 Ozark1 : on AA we get a print out and the only thing we know is that next to some people's name it will say "EP" for Executive Platinum, "PL" for Platinum, and
32 Legallykev : As far as AC is concerned, they do know the different status in their passengers. If you pay attention, prior to asking the whole cabin on meal selec
33 CokePopper : On Delta we as F/A's know the following: -No rev -FF status PM/GM/FF etc. lovingly referred to as "Precious metals" -In Voluntary upgrade We don't kno
34 BMI727 : That is probably the best way to go about it since it is hard to keep a running count of meal orders on a widebody aircraft. That is ridiculous. It i
35 Ikramerica : Uh-huh. The old "used to do it" argument. Can't be verified or disputed. This one time, in band camp... I have a girlfriend, but she lives in Canada.
36 Briboy : Then Elite, then the rest. At least this is how they are *supposed* to do it...
37 Mayor : Well, good grief.....am I a liar or something? I know that this was the way it was done because I've seen it done and it has happened to me, as a non
38 Mayor : BTW, isn't THIS what I stated? DL used to pass over the non-revs until all the fare paying pax had been asked and then they came back to them. How is
39 Panova98 : Just for clarification, do the F/As have the name of EVERY passenger (paying and non-paying) on the flight, in all classes of service (F, C, and Y)? G
40 Boston92 : United has a star system. On the manifest, there will be from zero to four stars next to a name. Four stars are only Global Services. Three stars are
41 Flyfree727 : There are definitions for these codes available on the the flt svc web site. Click on the purser tab and then there is a topic PSGR INFO LIST (PIL) c
42 Olympic472 : For LH, my guess is they know. On a recent flight, after take-off the Purser came around to select passengers. I was further back in the cabin and aft
43 DeltaCTO : The nonrevs know exactly what is going on. The revenue passengers don't even notice. Once they specify their own choice, they are oblivious to anybod
44 Pylon101 : I know it is not exactly about the thread - how F/A identify "who is what?" I work as head of representative office of a small NoVa/D.C. based compan
45 Heavy747 : Over at Air Canada, pretty sure they know who the big wigs are and who is flying non-rev, however, they treat everyone equally and IMHO extremely well
46 UAL757 : I know Alaska shows on the first class manifest (never seen a Y manifest, but they do thank the MVP Golds in coach with a free adult bev...so they kno
47 ClassicLover : That doesn't surprise me... I flew F on BA between BKK and SYD once (using my Qantas points) and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I was tre
48 Acjflyer : This thread is turning ugly way too fast and as respect to the starter of the post I'd like to bring it back to where we started. To answer your quest
49 TVNWZ : Don't want to step into the middle of a fight---but--I have seen this happen on DL and NW and I have also seen the reverse. Actually, I have been the
50 BP1 : When I am in Y on US I frequently am offered free drinks because they have my Gold status on the paperwork. When I go up front and peer at the paperwo
51 Mayor : Just as an FYI, maybe changed the policy in 2000.......I don't know, but I do know that it WAS done this way when I was flying. I really don't rememb
52 Ksancoflyer : I've been upgraded on CO almost every time since my dad was Platinum Elite. I say was because, his company now uses WN instead of CO, oh well. As I wa
53 VC10er : I'm Global Services on UA, and if I upgraded with a systemwide or bought a full fare first ticket, the FA always comes to me and other GS passengers a
54 FlyDeltaJets87 : I guess I will be the exception. I will make Medallion (Silver) this year with Delta, based on the number of segments I've flown (you have to achieve
55 Lufthansa411 : Yes they do. At most airlines, right before the door is closed the "PIL" (Passenger Information List) is brought down to the crew. Many long haul air
56 Viscount724 : I've been on many flights in both F and J where it was very obvious that when taking meal orders, they were doing it to ensure that fare-paying passe
57 Ckfred : On AA, the F/As do know who paid for a ticket/used miles for a ticket versus employees, relatatives, and friends who are flying non-rev, D1, D2, and D
58 EASTERN : I've noticed as a non-rev in F or C that the flight attendants will ask me for my meal preference in the order of where I'm seated, but will also ask
59 Fbgdavidson : I'd be surprised if there was any major airline that didn't list frequent flyer tiers on their manifests. On a number of airlines I've been personally
60 VC10er : I'm not 100 percent what a "non rev" is, I always assumed it's an airline employee who pays nothing. When I said when someone is in F or C no matter h
61 Iairallie : Ah if it's never happened to you it never happens. That's some brilliant logic. Well several employees have pointed out that it does. I will also poi
62 Panamair : I have been flying Delta since 1991 and I can tell you that non-Revs (employees, retirees, buddy passes, etc.) getting their meal choices after all p
63 VC10er : I've not only seen UA do it, but one time 10 plus years ago an FT came and asked me to give up my steak because she forgot to ask the 1k's first and s
64 CokePopper : Yes Business Elite flights Front to back. Have you been getting your choice? I have found that it is rare that my customers don't receive their choic
65 Mayor : Careful, there.....you could both be considered "liars" also.
66 OA412 : I've heard similar stories regarding BA. Don't these crew members understand that customers on the receiving end of such poor treatment will be less
67 United1P : non revs are also passengers who dont pay to sit in the cabin they are seated in, so award ticket, upgrade with miles or certificates, etc.
68 BMI727 : Well, I think that in the case being discussed here it is important to make the distinction between those who are frequent flyer elites who either up
69 Catiii : Seems like it would be the way to do it. Take care of the paying passengers first, then offer whatever meal choices are left to the pass riding emplo
70 Panamair : I think I may have not gotten my first choice of entrees in BusinessElite ONCE in the last 18 years or so. Somehow, Delta's meal counts work out very
71 ClassicLover : Completely agree with you there - last time I waste my points on BA F. Also it means I would choose other airlines over BA in F when paying also.
72 AirNz : In actuality, an F/A has no need whatever to know any such information, and I'll go as far as disputing much of what has been claimed in the thread.
73 Iainbhx : It does have that effect doesn't it. I've been avoiding UA and VS for years due to extremely poor "employee class" trips in the past. Whilst airlines
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