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Report: HND Will Be Int'l Hub  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

Well what has become increasingly apparent over the last several months is now, for lack of a better word, semi-official. The Narita experiment, mostly failed, is finally coming to a gradual end:

Transport minister Seiji Maehara indicated Sunday his wish to turn Tokyo's Haneda airport into a hub for international flights, an idea that, if realized, would represent a major shift in the government's longstanding policy of routing most Tokyo-bound international flights to Narita airport.

Maehara noted the need for addressing the current situation of the aviation market surrounding Japan where Incheon International Airport in a Seoul suburb is increasingly used by Japanese travelers flying from provincial airports in Japan.

...

''By removing the principle of keeping apart domestic and international (services between the airports), we would like to gradually aim at turning Haneda into an international airport that can operate on a 24-hour (basis).''


http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/3544012#


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

Before NRT opened, Haneda was a domestic and International airport, and quite successful. Both Pan Am and NWA had large operations there.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12404 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8289 times:
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Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
''By removing the principle of keeping apart domestic and international (services between the airports), we would like to gradually aim at turning Haneda into an international airport that can operate on a 24-hour (basis).''

Now how are they going to distribute slots? The demand from HND is far more than NRT. e.g., DL would want to move their hub to HND.  Wink

Its past due. Tokyo should be the natural hub on the Asian side of the TPAC flights. (As well and HKG, ICN, and PVG.) But due to the fractured nature, connections have been poor. I chose not to visit my brother in Kumomoto due to the poor connection options (at that time). I simply didn't have the vacation time to waste transfering airport to airport.

But it will be a fight to move flights to HND. The 24 hour opperations are a plus too.

But unless HND becomes a six runway airport, demand will remain intense for NRT slots.

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21413 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8238 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 2):
But unless HND becomes a six runway airport, demand will remain intense for NRT slots.

Sure, but it will be a market competition, not the stupid setup they have now.

It's not just the inconvenience of the NRT, but the cost to visitors of using it.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8175 times:

This should be viewed as a welcome development within Japan. Now, will Mr. Maehara remarks influence the Diet?

There has to have been much consternation within the Japanese government, as well as wider business and finance circles, as Japan (via TYO) effectively ceded its leadership in being the primary hub of northern Asia over the last quarter century.

On the surface, the idea appears a win-win on several levels. IMO, the primary achievement being a rationalization of resources at both the private (airline sector) and public (government sector) level, with subsequent efficiencies. Such a possibility perhaps unleashes the full potential of JAL and ANA.

Should this idea come to fruition, the conundrum becomes what to do with the equivalent of several billion USD in development at NRT and possibly KIX. Unlike the Canadian government, (in reference to YMX, which hadn't had much capital development during its final decade) the ability to 'wind-down' either/both KIX and NRT won't be so easy due to the financial implications. Several billion Yen at both the federal and prefecture level of government would be saved annuallly, but at the cost of not having fully sunk the cost of investment.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12404 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8053 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Sure, but it will be a market competition, not the stupid setup they have now.

It's not just the inconvenience of the NRT, but the cost to visitors of using it.

 checkmark 

Quoting Aaway (Reply 4):
the ability to 'wind-down' either/both KIX and NRT won't be so easy due to the financial implications.

Little need to 'wind down' at either. KIX has a seperature catchment area. NRT, to a limited extent, also is more convienient to certain parts of Tokyo (but for a smaller catchment population than HND).

This is a good thing. Its direly needed for ANA and JAL. But is it too late? ICN already has going through it a lot of the traffic that these Japanese airlines will have to win back. While I am optimistic that ANA and JAL will grow with a consolodated hub, some of the traffic will have to be won back.

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

I see this as a plus for NH and JL, but what would you speculate would happen to the smaller domestic carriers at HND?

Quoting Aaway (Reply 4):
development at NRT and possibly KIX

So would people on here suggest a shift from KIX to ITM or ITM to KIX? I'm not too familiar with the area, and despite being a bit more expensive to operate, wouldn't KIX be better for Osaka and the surrounding region?



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User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

It is strange that Incheon Airport in particular was cited, when the Incheon-Gimpo arrangement is similar to the Narita-Haneda one. So why should Incheon be wildly successful, while Narita is not? And there are similar examples around Asia where the model seems to work better, such as Taipei-Songshan and Shanghai Pudong-Hongqiao. Turning Haneda back to a international/domestic airport seems to reverse an otherwise sound effort to better utilise available resources, without which Narita will inevitably have much less traffic, unless it slashes usage charges to the detriment of its bottom line. If left uncontrolled, we will soon see a Kansai equivalent in Tokyo!


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User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7948 times:



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 7):
Incheon-Gimpo arrangement is similar to the Narita-Haneda one. So why should Incheon be wildly successful, while Narita is not?

While I could be wrong, it seems ICN has had an easier time to build as new with less opposition as opposed to NRT. Plus the the Incheon area seems to be growing with new projects popping up, while the Narita prefers to retain its small town mentality.

Why are usage charges in Japan much higher in general? Would the transfer from NRT to HND also cause usage fees to sharply increase? I'm just got a bit curious about these things when this thread popped up.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12404 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7941 times:
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Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 7):
It is strange that Incheon Airport in particular was cited, when the Incheon-Gimpo arrangement is similar to the Narita-Haneda one. So why should Incheon be wildly successful, while Narita is not?

ICN is not slot restricted. There was no reason to allocate slots away from smaller fligths to the more profitable long haul. I'm not a fan of split International/domestic flights. It weakens a hub and in my opinion slowed ICN's initial growth. But Gimpo serves a relatively small geographic area that is mostly overlapped with flights from ICN. The same is not true of NRT. I've tried to arrange NRT connections to Kumomoto (or any nearby airport to the city). The connections... were poor. NRT also has a strict night-time curfew. This puts a huge handicap on the airliens operating out of that airport. ICN has no curfew.

Does Gimpo have a curfew?

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7904 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5):
Quoting Aaway (Reply 4):
the ability to 'wind-down' either/both KIX and NRT won't be so easy due to the financial implications.

Little need to 'wind down' at either. KIX has a seperature catchment area. NRT, to a limited extent, also is more convienient to certain parts of Tokyo (but for a smaller catchment population than HND).

I wasn't clear with the slant of my comment. The reference to KIX was in response to these paragraphs in the article:

"Maehara disclosed the proposal in remarks to reporters after meeting Osaka Gov. Toru Hashimoto, who asked the central government to step up investment to turn Kansai International Airport, serving Osaka, into a hub airport. Maehara fell short of meeting Hashimoto's demand for Kansai airport."

"...On Kansai airport, Maehara said, ''After building a solid hub in Japan, we would like to consider what to do about the three airports of Kansai, Itami and Kobe that serve the Kansai (region centering Osaka).''

I'd suggest that the need for airport consolidation in the Osaka region is much greater than in Tokyo.

Relative to Tokyo, I use the phrase "wind-down" not in the context of full closure, but rather a phased transition considering the recent capital development. In a city of 13 million, NRT will definitely continue to have a role.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12404 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7850 times:
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Quoting Aaway (Reply 10):
I'd suggest that the need for airport consolidation in the Osaka region is much greater than in Tokyo.

Thank you for your clarification. I 100% agree.

Quoting Aaway (Reply 10):
In a city of 13 million, NRT will definitely continue to have a role.

Nitpick: Last I looked, the HND/NRT catchment areas was over 20 million.

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7769 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):
Quoting Aaway (Reply 10):
In a city of 13 million, NRT will definitely continue to have a role.

Nitpick: Last I looked, the HND/NRT catchment areas was over 20 million.

Haha, if you look at Wikipedia entry, it cites a population of 32 million for the "greater Tokyo metro area".   

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 7):
It is strange that Incheon Airport in particular was cited, when the Incheon-Gimpo arrangement is similar to the Narita-Haneda one. So why should Incheon be wildly successful, while Narita is not?

The Japanese government neglected to cater to the interdependence of domestic <-> international air travel. NRT has failed at facilitating that facet of Japanese civil aviation.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 6):
So would people on here suggest a shift from KIX to ITM or ITM to KIX? I'm not too familiar with the area, and despite being a bit more expensive to operate, wouldn't KIX be better for Osaka and the surrounding region?

ITM is on soild ground. That alone reduces the level of charges associated with the use of KIX.

[Edited 2009-10-12 12:32:01 by aaway]


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7681 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 12):

ITM is on soild ground. That alone reduces the level of charges associated with the use of KIX.

Not to forget that ITM is far easier to reach from the city center. The fact that it is pretty much within the city doesn't help it's cause though...



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7636 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 12):
So would people on here suggest a shift from KIX to ITM or ITM to KIX? I'm not too familiar with the area, and despite being a bit more expensive to operate, wouldn't KIX be better for Osaka and the surrounding region?

That's the way it used to be until KIX opened, about 14 years ago; then, ITM was very full and one can only imagine what it was like to use it, with so many international flights. There really isn't room to expand.

As far as I'm aware, there are no traffic restrictions at KIX; what has been driving the decline in domestic and international traffic has been a combination of Japan's economic misfortunates and also, the sheer cost of operating into/out of KIX.

Needless to say, I welcome the development of HND into an international hub. It is long awaited and it's certainly a very good indication that the new Japanese govt is shaking things up and challenging the accepted policies. This is hugely important to Japan's economic rebirth. It's probably fair to say that the serious financial problems currently being faced by JAL are in some way attributable to Japan's airport policies and in particular, the high price of operating into its major hubs, like NRT and KIX. Apart from whatever financial aid JAL gets, sorting out the airport/access policies will help it very much; it has to be seen as a major handicap when compared to other airlines in the region.

I can't see NRT ever winding down completely, for the following reasons:
1) Improved rail links will improve its attractiveness
2) Cargo can stay at NRT and of course, that's big business in Japan (well, perhaps not now as much as in previous years, but it will come back).
3) There isn't the space to build new runway capacity at HND, to the extent required to allow it to take over completely from NRT.
4) HND's longest runway is (including the new one), about 9,840', considerably shorter than the 13,000' available at NRT. That's going to have to be addressed.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21413 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7495 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 6):
So would people on here suggest a shift from KIX to ITM or ITM to KIX? I'm not too familiar with the area, and despite being a bit more expensive to operate, wouldn't KIX be better for Osaka and the surrounding region?

ITM is also an urban airport, which impacts communities with noise, similar to a lot of other airports around the world with restrictions. KIX and HND are on/in bays, where traffic can be routed over water. Seen not heard. I remember spotting from Tokyo DisneySea and seeing all the HND traffic clear as day, but not hearing any of it.

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 7):
It is strange that Incheon Airport in particular was cited, when the Incheon-Gimpo arrangement is similar to the Narita-Haneda one.

Maybe the Koreans haven't allowed visitors to be robbed by super high prices to get to and from ICN like happens with NRT. It's quite ridiculous that it can cost hundreds of dollars to get a Taxi from NRT to Tokyo, that buses are $30+ each way and take 1.5 hours at most times, that the train doesn't come right to the airport nor is it particularly fast in a true NRT express (meaning it's a long walk, takes an hour, doesn't run that often, and also costs $30), that the highways are many lanes too narrow and are all toll roads, etc.

Basically, nobody realized that travelers don't want to deal with that crap and Japan thought Tokyo was so important, they could just force these bad options down everyone's throat and they'd have to smile and ask for more.

Compare this to CDG, which was another "further out" airport compared to Orly, designed to take over the majority of international travel in the same what NRT was for HND, but was done right. Taxis cost 1/3rd to 1/4 the price compared to NRT, bus 1/3 the price and takes 1/2 the time, train 1/4 the price and 1/2 the time.

It's fine to build a remote international airport, as long as you don't make it TOO remote, and you make sure it's easy to use. Japan did not do this with NRT, and it has cost them far more than they ever could have imagined.

The distance and inconvenience of NRT is similar to LGW, which is one reason people often dislike going into LGW even when LHR was such a hassle.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7497 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 12):
The Japanese government neglected to cater to the interdependence of domestic <-> international air travel. NRT has failed at facilitating that facet of Japanese civil aviation.

The NRT vs. HND situation has much in common with the white elephant Montreal Mirabel airport (YMX) effort which was a major (and very expensive) disaster for Montreal's ability to promote itself as a hub, with international flights at YMX and domestic and U.S. flights remaining at YUL about 30 miles away and much closer to the city. Many passengers destined to international destinations preferred to fly from YUL and connect at YYZ rather than make the long trip to YMX.

Fortunately, they finally recognized their error after more than 20 years and moved all international flights back to YUL a few years ago, leaving an almost deserted major airport at YMX except for a few cargo flights (and the Bombardier CRJ-700/900/1000 and new C-series assembly plant).

Obviously, Tokyo is much too big for all traffic to be able to use HND but any international flights which are able to move to HND after the 4th runway opens will no doubt be very popular, both due to the proximity to the city and the ability to connect to/from domestic points without changing airports..


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7497 times:



Quoting Aaway (Reply 10):
In a city of 13 million, NRT will definitely continue to have a role.



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):
Nitpick: Last I looked, the HND/NRT catchment areas was over 20 million.



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):
Haha, if you look at Wikipedia entry, it cites a population of 32 million for the "greater Tokyo metro area".

Haha. Actually the official Japanese government estimate for 2008 for Kantō Dai-toshi-ken, which includes Tokyo city and most outlying suburbs with a rail connection to major employment centers, is 35.5 million.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7499 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
HND's longest runway is (including the new one), about 9,840', considerably shorter than the 13,000' available at NRT. That's going to have to be addressed

This may not be the handicap it seems, most flights taking off for the USA are traveling eastward with tail winds reducing flight times. A 777 should be able to make most of the USA( if not all) from a 9,800 feet HND runway. Until NRT opened 747 classics flew from HND to ANC( about 8 hours) all the time before heading for Europe to circumnavigate the USSR.

Europe might have a problem but 777 should make LHR, CDG and FRA from the same runway. Europe's three big airports are 11 - 12 hours from NRT, less then HKG and SIN since Japan is further north.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4592 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7500 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Compare this to CDG, which was another "further out" airport compared to Orly, designed to take over the majority of international travel in the same what NRT was for HND, but was done right. Taxis cost 1/3rd to 1/4 the price compared to NRT, bus 1/3 the price and takes 1/2 the time, train 1/4 the price and 1/2 the time.

It's fine to build a remote international airport, as long as you don't make it TOO remote, and you make sure it's easy to use. Japan did not do this with NRT, and it has cost them far more than they ever could have imagined

Very well written. Another example in the Asian where a remote airport is quite successful would KLIA in Malaysia. The old Subang is still in use but not as the international hub. And at KLIA there is also the low-cost terminal for regional (partially domestic) operating flights.


User currently offlineCoolfish1103 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

If you remember how China Airlines and EVA Airways of Taiwan monopolized Haneda's International flights due to political dilemma until they were destined to be moved in 2002, you will know how much Haneda is worth to the passengers and airlines when compared to Narita. People merely transfer via Taipei because they feel the time it takes to travel from Narita to Tokyo City is not as convenient. Due to the excessive passengers flying through Taipei, the flights were almost always full during low seasons and the cost of the tickets were expensive.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7498 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
Until NRT opened 747 classics flew from HND to ANC( about 8 hours)

747s (and 707s and DC-8s) also operated nonstop from HND to the west coast for years with no problems. HNC-ANC was also much shorter than 8 hours. NW had a daily 747 HND-ANC-ORD in 1974. Eastbound block time HND-ANC in their December 1974 timetable was 6 hrs. 30 min. (one hour longer westbound due winds). HND/NRT-ANC is almost the same distance as JFK-LHR.


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4355 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

What I would like to know, having just visited Japan, is how the rest of the country typically connects to international flights. KIX never really developed in this regard- down to 1 flight to the US mainland a day. Sure, some domestic flights go into NRT, but a small fraction of HND. Is that enough to satisfy the connectivity demands of the country, or does a whole lot of HND-NRT transit occur in these cases?


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21413 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7498 times:



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 22):
What I would like to know, having just visited Japan, is how the rest of the country typically connects to international flights. KIX never really developed in this regard- down to 1 flight to the US mainland a day. Sure, some domestic flights go into NRT, but a small fraction of HND. Is that enough to satisfy the connectivity demands of the country, or does a whole lot of HND-NRT transit occur in these cases?

Well, when I was there, the ITM-NRT JAL flight was a 744, and they basically waited around at ITM until all the pax that were supposed to be connecting onward out of NRT had boarded. This was 2003. That was the single ITM-NRT flight a day. The rest were ITM-HND, one assumes for local traffic.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1615 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7494 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
The NRT vs. HND situation has much in common with the white elephant Montreal Mirabel airport (YMX) effort which was a major (and very expensive) disaster for Montreal's ability to promote itself as a hub, with international flights at YMX and domestic and U.S. flights remaining at YUL about 30 miles away and much closer to the city.

My thoughts exactly. Funny that Narita should suffer from the same syndrome than Mirabel...

It shows also that the point-to-point system is far from perfect. Mirabel and Narita are good examples of "point-to-point" airports, with a thin proportion of local traffic (probably more so at Mirabel), which finally makes them almost dead-end airports. If the "point-to-point" system was the perfection some on this site would like it to be, that would cause no problem whatsoever. Yet, Mirabel is closed and Narita could be quite wound down, if this proposal goes on.


25 PM : Here's one example. I live in provincial Japan. If I fly back to Europe (which, in fact, I am doing on Saturday) I can... a) take a train (2 1/2 hour
26 Carpethead : HND will first and foremost be a domestic and short-haul international airport (short-term at least). Long-haul operations will be limited to night ho
27 Dlowwa : Most, if not in the kanto area, will fly from the closest major airport that has a flight to NRT. Those occur only sporadically throughout the day ho
28 PM : The irony, of course, is that Haneda continues to promote itself as "Tokyo International Airport". "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Tokyo Internation
29 Glareskin : Well technically it is as they serve Shanghai, Hong-Kong and Seoul. I think the limousine bus is a nice alternative. In my experience travelling time
30 Post contains links Centrair : Here is a clip from ANN about what is going on (all Japanese). If someone wants to translate, go ahead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaGxL-3DhQ All
31 Post contains links HeeseokKoo : NRT airport will start charging tax for transfer passengers from Nov. It seems 1520 Yen (around 15USD) on each transfer. I'm not sure how many airport
32 SR117 : Not such a nice price when you consider that the same type of service at Seoul-Incheon is around 11-12usd. The A'REX will soon connect the airport an
33 Post contains links Lightsaber : As Ikramerica noted, some places had their connection (the ITM example). But other cities in Japan are not served from NRT. Connections... are poor.
34 Post contains links Kaitak : Interesting article in Flight International about this: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ecome-24-hr-international-hub.html To me, this idea of
35 Dlowwa : Ah... I was wondering what all that construction was when I was there... I guess it's no suprise given how small the current international terminal i
36 Ikramerica : It's simply nicer than the alternative. Other airports around the world have better prices. That's the point. NRT is a ripoff, either because it was
37 Mdavies06 : agree. You can take the bullet train into shinagawa and then its just 20 minutes more to HND. NGO will get hunt. This idea of allowing Europe/US flig
38 Kaitak : Yes, a very good and important point - particularly as far as negotiating bilaterals is concerned. The EU may well look into this and demand a fairer
39 Tradewinds : Very good news! Now they need to figure out some way to sort out the Kobe/Itami/Kansai issue.
40 HeeseokKoo : That's what I thought so. JL/NH can leave 11pm or so and arrive Europe at 4-5am, arrive west coast US at 3-5pm. And they can return after 6 hours or
41 Post contains links Centrair : Here is my idea: 1) Open HND without restrictions to arrival/departure time for the benefit of airline ops, the customers and the poor customs agents
42 Carpethead : Those are the hours when NRT is under curfew. Terminal 2 will be expanded slightly over the old int'l terminal. Quite correct. Of course, European ca
43 Lightsaber : Thank you for all of your answers. With the old international terminal, I was hoping for a more dramatic expansion. (Read, far more gates.) Cest la v
44 JRadier : Reading is such a nice thing! He said 'allow', not 'force' which are quite different things!
45 Post contains links BOSSAN : Partial climbdown announced on Haneda/Narita: http://www.japantoday.com/category/p...-of-haneda-narita-airports-maehara Transport minister Seiji Maeha
46 Kaitak : I don't think it's so much a climbdown as a clarification; NRT will still be mainly an international airport and HND will still be mainly a domestic
47 Centrair : It sounds from that article that all Maehara wants is to see more international at HND and more domestic connections at NRT. That isn't a bad idea. M
48 Incitatus : HND opening longhaul services is going to create its own problems because it cannot absorb all services currently at NRT and it is a much more conveni
49 Aaway : HND's long-haul operational window of 23:00 - 06:00 would pose scheduling issues for most of the interior U.S. hubs, but would actually work out for
50 MogandoCI : I think the same thing occurs in most markets, not just Japan. Take UK. Most passengers bound for North America can take a nonstop to EWR on CO from l
51 Mdavies06 : One would wonder how they could 'fairly' allocate these 75 arrival and departure slots daily. Could all long haul flights from NRT fit into these slo
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A320 Successor Will Be Built Alone In Hamburg posted Mon Aug 10 2009 02:12:07 by Oldeuropean
Looters Will Be Shot, Survivors Will Be Shot Again posted Tue Aug 4 2009 23:18:02 by EcuadorianMD11
What Will Be VX's Star Rating? posted Sun Jul 19 2009 20:23:17 by JetBlue777