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WN Announcement In DEN?  
User currently offlineMcofreak From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17345 times:

Heard from a friend that next week Gary Kelly is headed to Denver to visit with the employees and make an announcement.... If there is an announcement I wonder what it is? He tells me they have been continuously hiring there for weeks as there ramp headcount has gone up quite a bit.

[Edited 2009-10-14 16:25:47 by srbmod]

180 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17295 times:

Maybe it'll be a new crew-base for us? That's been a rumor for a while.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1749 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17245 times:

Rumor at DIA is US Airways is leaving C Concourse and moving to B with United for better Star Alliance connections - leaving Southwest with 2 more gates to pick-up at the west end of 'C'. Could very well be tied to this.

User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17198 times:

Something major is up. WN's recent re-balancing of flights did not include any changes to Denver at all. I've hear conflicting things:
1) WN isn't suicidal and not about to push on DEN hard.
2) WN is getting ready for "shock and awe" and is going to try and put F9 under. (their terminology, not mine).
3) WN believes that a UA bankruptcy is imminent the next time fuel prices go up, and are going to position a base in DEN and take over as much of the traffic as they can when the BK hits.

Quoting N7371f (Reply 2):
Rumor at DIA is US Airways is leaving C Concourse and moving to B with United for better Star Alliance connections - leaving Southwest with 2 more gates to pick-up at the west end of 'C'. Could very well be tied to this.

What I have heard is that UA, LH, US and CO are all moving to B concourse, which is becoming a "star alliance" concourse. AA wants to move to Concourse A to be closer to BA. And yes, before someone objects, LH will still come inbound to A. They asked the airport about a Foreign entry point in B, but were turned down.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7523 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17043 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):

What I have heard is that UA, LH, US and CO are all moving to B concourse, which is becoming a "star alliance" concourse...before someone objects, LH will still come inbound to A.

Even with the caveat I still don't believe they would bother towing LH from A to B. What is the point? It's a 2 minute ride on the train. Of course they were denied to put a customs facility on B because you would have to reprocess security to exit back on to the train. That's the benefit of the bridge. That would be moronic (like ATL).

CO is definitely moving to B. I thought US moving was already public. So those are right.

Quoting Mcofreak (Thread starter):
Heard from a friend that next week Gary Kelly is headed to Denver to visit with the employees and make an announcement....

As I said in the WN announcement thread, WN has been only releasing a few tidbits in their big announcement and saving the bigger things for later. This would fit. What's left for them to add? LGA/DTW/RSW?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17008 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
What I have heard is that UA, LH, US and CO are all moving to B concourse, which is becoming a "star alliance" concourse.

What about AC?

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
They asked the airport about a Foreign entry point in B, but were turned down.

Surely LH knew this wasn't going to happen.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7317 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17007 times:
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They are going to buy UA and turn DEN into a super-mega-fortress-hub.

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16970 times:

Something has to give. WN roared into PHL amid much fanfare, but after a reality check many of those additions (CMH, SAT, and now AUS) are starting to go. WN now flies to almost every single F9 mainline station from DEN, but F9 has a distinguished product, Lynx feeder flights, int'l/ANC ops, and Republic ownership. UA has a comprehensive network and FF program to keep people loyal to it. Not sure if this whole DEN mega-expansion is very sustainable for WN. Will be interesting to see what happens in DEN and MKE in the coming years.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16888 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
) WN is getting ready for "shock and awe" and is going to try and put F9 under. (their terminology, not mine).

Do they really talk like this?


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 16686 times:

Southwest has stated after the loss of F9 to Republic that they would continue to add more to DEN and focus on DEN.

However, I don't know if gaining new gates (which was already previously asked in another topic) is a "fanfare" announcement much more adding new routes?

A crew base announcement would indeed be a big announcement and while not a rumor that I have heard personally at WN, it would kind of make sense, but it would cost WN money to create another base, unless they were making a virtual base at DEN? This rumored heavily for BNA (Lexy are you listening?!  Wink) however this hasn't come to fruitation...

Enrila-I assume DEN was grandfathered in so DEN-LGA could exist and WOULD add more options to connect to the south and southwest but they would have to drop a MDW or BWI flight to do so correct? RSW would be a move after F9 adds it themselves. DTW? Hmmh...WN has been receding at DTW as of late though. As for other routes...there is always IAD, JAN, LIT, BHM, ALB, PVD, MHT, CLE, CMH, MKE...there is a ton left WN can add to DEN  Wink LAS is the only city to have the majority of non stop destinations, around 233 daily to 56 destinations, not including MKE and the newest cutbacks and additions too.

Tomorrow, WN is going to announce their 3rd quarter results...maybe tomorrow is the announcement if there is such a thing?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16568 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
As I said in the WN announcement thread, WN has been only releasing a few tidbits in their big announcement and saving the bigger things for later. This would fit. What's left for them to add? LGA/DTW/RSW?

Current cities that WN serves that are not non-stop from DEN from west to east (more or less);
BUR, ONT, BOI, ELP, MAF, LBB, HRL, CRP, DAL, LIT, JAN, MKE, BHM, DTW, CMH, CLE, PIT, BUF, RSW, JAX, PBI, IAD, ORF, ALB, LGA, BDL, PVD, and MHT. Now, since DAL is still under Wright restrictions, I doubt we will see non-stop service there until it goes away in a few years.

Quoting BA (Reply 5):
What about AC?

AC is at gates A41 and A43 along with LH and AM. If they move LH, then I suspect AC will move with them.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
Maybe it'll be a new crew-base for us? That's been a rumor for a while.

This makes sense given the WN service level at DEN.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16569 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9):
A crew base announcement would indeed be a big announcement and while not a rumor that I have heard personally at WN, it would kind of make sense, but it would cost WN money to create another base, unless they were making a virtual base at DEN? This rumored heavily for BNA (Lexy are you listening?! ) however this hasn't come to fruitation...

Hey, how ya doing??!! I'm listening!  Cool

Hey, the cost of living here is cheap and there isn't a shortage of good housing. I still haven't figured out why they don't already have something here already.  scratchchin 



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16497 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 12):

Hey, how ya doing??!! I'm listening! Cool

Hey, the cost of living here is cheap and there isn't a shortage of good housing. I still haven't figured out why they don't already have something here already. scratchchin

No Idea! Hahaha I have a friend who is MCO based for WN and she lives in BNA, commutes all the time!

Sent a PM check it out bud!

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4428 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16474 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
What's left for them to add? LGA/DTW/RSW?



Quoting F9fan (Reply 11):
BUR, ONT, BOI, ELP, MAF, LBB, HRL, CRP, DAL, LIT, JAN, MKE, BHM, DTW, CMH, CLE, PIT, BUF, RSW, JAX, PBI, IAD, ORF, ALB, LGA, BDL, PVD, and MHT

BUR and ELP would be next to add in my opinion, based on station size, distance, and how much control WN has of that city. ONT could work as well, but ONT is doing so hot right now. RSW will happen eventually IMO, along with MKE. The others are all either smaller far away stations, or small stations with limited O&D. BOI is possible, but isn't a real big market for multiple carriers to be involved.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16421 times:



Quoting F9fan (Reply 11):
AC is at gates A41 and A43 along with LH and AM. If they move LH, then I suspect AC will move with them.

AC moved from Concourse B to A41/A43 on Concourse A only a few years ago when they ceased using United Airlines as their ground handler.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1749 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16282 times:

UA certainly has the space on 'B' with all the reduced flights and added emphasis on UA Express. Every time I fly through DEN I see roughly a dozen empty mainline gates on 'B'.

User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16270 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 5):
What about AC?

I forgot that they moved. Since their flights are too airports with US customs, they can move anywhere they want too.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
Even with the caveat I still don't believe they would bother towing LH from A to B. What is the point? It's a 2 minute ride on the train.

It's part of a significant move by Star Alliance world wide to present unified terminals and transits world wide. I tend to agree with your analysis, but me thinking it's rational doesn't change what is being talked about.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16213 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9):
A crew base announcement would indeed be a big announcement and while not a rumor that I have heard personally at WN, it would kind of make sense, but it would cost WN money to create another base, unless they were making a virtual base at DEN? This rumored heavily for BNA (Lexy are you listening?! Wink) however this hasn't come to fruitation...

HA HA! If they open a base at BNA before DEN ill hook Lexy up with a United First ticket anywhere domestic roundtrip!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16191 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 18):

HA HA! If they open a base at BNA before DEN ill hook Lexy up with a United First ticket anywhere domestic roundtrip!

BNA and TPA were the cities mentioned for a possible VIRTUAL base, not an actual crew base.

This was also before LAS opened as a crew base, and before DEN was becoming the airport it was.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1595 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16138 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 19):
possible VIRTUAL base

I've been seeing this term a lot more recently. What entails a virtual base?



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15903 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 18):
HA HA! If they open a base at BNA before DEN ill hook Lexy up with a United First ticket anywhere domestic roundtrip!

HEY! Only if I can get a leg of that flight on a B777 DARNIT!!! You two are cracking me up seriously! You all made my day!  Silly



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3806 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15875 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
Something major is up. WN's recent re-balancing of flights did not include any changes to Denver at all. I've hear conflicting things:
1) WN isn't suicidal and not about to push on DEN hard.
2) WN is getting ready for "shock and awe" and is going to try and put F9 under. (their terminology, not mine).
3) WN believes that a UA bankruptcy is imminent the next time fuel prices go up, and are going to position a base in DEN and take over as much of the traffic as they can when the BK hits.

You forgot this one:
4) WN feels that UA is about to merge with CO and that the combined carrier will reduce flights at DEN in favor of IAH (a la US at PIT and AA at STL), and DEN will be up for grabs. Personally, I'd say #2 is the most likely.

Anyway, while we're on the topic of DEN, I've heard rumors for years about either UA (UAX) or F9 starting FWA-DEN... in the case of UAX, it would be a good addition to a lot of the Midwestern UAX Denver routes. And after DL pulled FWA-MSP, the timing can't be better...



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15686 times:

I saw on CNN (I think) that WN posted a small 3Q loss of $12 mil. Give or take a few million.

Edit: Make that $16 mil.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/..._2009-10-15_12-52-01_N15167372.htm

[Edited 2009-10-15 06:50:12]


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1031 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15171 times:



Quoting F9fan (Reply 11):
Current cities that WN serves that are not non-stop from DEN from west to east (more or less);
BUR, ONT, BOI, ELP, MAF, LBB, HRL, CRP, DAL, LIT, JAN, MKE, BHM, DTW, CMH, CLE, PIT, BUF, RSW, JAX, PBI, IAD, ORF, ALB, LGA, BDL, PVD, and MHT. Now, since DAL is still under Wright restrictions, I doubt we will see non-stop service there until it goes away in a few years.

Add ISP to that list.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14514 times:

 wave  I think they are going to try to push Frontier OR United hub out of DEN. I don't think that they care which one but they are pretty confident that one will downsize eventually  wave 

25 Post contains links Mariner : Given the rather unhappy outlook that Southwest's CEO Kelly provided today, I would hope they're a bit more realistic about DEN than that: http://www
26 CODCA09 : Southwest is defiantly hoping either for UA to eliminate the DEN hub or for F9 to just disappear, and WN knows their actions can hurry one of those ou
27 Mariner : "Hurry one of those outcomes along"? It's been nearly four years and it hasn't worked so far. mariner
28 Indy : But can we say the actions of WN over those years contributed to the F9 bankruptcy filing? Just curious. BTW I'm pulling for F9 in this. I really enj
29 N702ML : Seriously....do we have to go down that road again?
30 Mariner : Sure, to some extent, of course. Frontier's load factors remained high, but Southwest was flooding the market with "introductory" fares - that seemed
31 LoneStarMike : I noticed something odd about Southwest's latest schedule extension & asked about it over on FlyerTalk This is the answer I got I get the impression
32 Indy : Shouldn't you be asking that of the person in reply number 29? And personally I thought Mariner gave a pretty good response to the question. And we'l
33 Post contains links Mariner : Nah, I don't do that any more. But yes, someone should. In the meantime, this long article in the Denver Post, detailing what happened leading up to
34 UAL747DEN : I cant seem to tell people enough that United is going nowhere. We would have to be pulling out of flying altogether if we were to leave DEN. I think
35 Post contains links Mariner : Agreed. But Huebner is genuine star power - look at his cv - that's fairly heady company. http://www.davispolk.com/lawyers/marshall-huebner/ Generall
36 UAL747DEN : Ah I see what your saying now, I assumed you were just talking about to firm number. Yeah that is a good question!!
37 Antoniemey : Maybe he was on that flight you were that made you decide to follow Frontier for the rest of time. But now that you mention it, I am a bit curious.
38 Mariner : I doubt it was the money. From Frontier's perspective, Davis Polk made out like bandits on the deal. From Huebner/Davis Polk's perspective, Frontier
39 Enilria : So, is this announcement confirmed or simply hearsay?
40 PITops : I'm not entirely sure but I think it has to depend on how many people commute from said station and not to do with how many flights. I know PIT was m
41 Ual777 : Won't happen. UA just raised over 600 million and I believe most of their fuel is hedged around $60-65.
42 AirFrnt : What was the interest rate on it? I didn't realize the sales was done. However, much like a addict rotate balances on Credit Cards, this is to pay of
43 Mariner : No idea, sorry. I used to have a couple of pretty good dickie-birds at Southwest, but they've stopped singing to me since the auction I think it is p
44 Enilria : It does fit the pattern, but this doesn't seem super-credible.
45 Post contains links UAL777 : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/United...659-prnews-291442782.html?x=0&.v=1 Press release.
46 KGAIflyer : I know it seems strange, but DTW operated this way for decades before the new McNamara Terminal was brought online. Outgoing Northwest International
47 Enilria : They do it in Atlanta too, but it's still moronic. They built the terminal in DEN uniquely to avoid that kind of mess. It's not like the existing fac
48 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Terry Maxon over at the Dallas Morning News noted the absence of any new DEN flights with regards to the March 14 schedule changes and asked Gary Kell
49 Mariner : Yes, I saw that and once again I'm scratching my head. Why would he even ask the question? If you've got an interview with GK surely the question is:
50 Mariner : I've asked the interviewer the same question, so maybe we'll see. mariner
51 Luckyone : Explain that a little please. Nearly all international flights from ATL board and deplane in Concourse E. A handful of flights use the T-Gates to boa
52 N200WN : I don't get it either. Southwest just announced three new routes from DEN just a few weeks ago - GEG, RNO, and BOS. What are they looking for? New ro
53 Post contains images Mariner : So - why is DEN more important than any other new Southwest station? More important than MSP or LGA or BOS or SFO? That's a first. I've been called ma
54 Airfrnt : Ahh, the classic of modern rhetoric. If you can't argue with facts, call them names, and appeal to emotion. I agree, again, I just said that's what t
55 Post contains links ADent : Here are the DEN OAG changes in March from Enrilia's post ( OAG Changes 10/16/09: AA/CO/DL/FL/NW/UA/WN/ZK (by Enilria Oct 16 2009 in Civil Aviation) )
56 United1 : Wow thats the pot calling the kettle... that's exactly what you did/do... .... I think its more important then any of those two stations for two reas
57 Mariner : They've been more of a juggernaut at DEN than anywhere else. As CEO Kelly said they "changed the model" for DEN, and they haven't used that model any
58 LoneStarMike : I wonder if everyone is obsessed with DEN because of Kelly's comment about how WN "changed the model" for DEN. To me that implies that there is somet
59 LUV08 : Well.....With UA and F9 being so vulnerable right now it just seems like you asked a question you already know the answer to. F9's future is up in th
60 Mariner : I wondered if it was because when Southwest left DEN Stapleton, Mr. Kelleher said they would return to Denver only when pigs fly or hell freezes, or
61 LUV08 : Just curious, why does it matter so much? I know it threatens F9 but it seems to consume you that WN is growing at DEN....
62 Mariner : I don't know how it threatens Frontier, but this has very little to do with Frontier. I study psychology and try to work out why people do things. I d
63 Post contains links and images Mariner : When Southwest came to DEN, Frontier had about 22% market share. Then it went up. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...15NLj3oYLnxb2r4D0NDZwL0LQD9B1
64 Justplanenutz : He also said the prospective mergee would be about a 10% addition, which Sun Country comes nowhere near. Sun Country is most likely not worth the has
65 Enilria : Again, I'd like to point out that enplanements ARE NOT market share. Don't know why that keeps getting said over and over again in the Frontier threa
66 United1 : Guess my arguments hit home then....oh well your loss. Wow...I didn't realize that WN had passed F9 at DEN, that's rather impressive growth from my f
67 Alphascan : Frontier shinks capacity to go from unprofitable to profitable. Southwest increases its capacity at DEN which increases its unprofitability at DEN and
68 Enilria : I should also point out that market share is neither a measure of success nor a measure of profitability! edit: removed RPD reference.[Edited 2009-10
69 Mariner : Because that is what the press - and other analysts - report. mariner[Edited 2009-10-22 14:16:21 by Diamond]
70 Post contains images Enilria : That's great, but by definition it is not market share. I'm sure it would shock you that a reporter would ever report anything inaccurate.   (INSERT
71 Mariner : So it is just about size - if Frontier were smaller, all this would go away? mariner
72 LUV08 : Frontier is small, but overall I think that is correct. WN would get nothing out of Sun Country deal. What are you worried about though. The auction
73 Post contains links Mariner : Except that they say they're getting their numbers from DIA. If you're right and they're wrong I think it would be in the public interest for you to
74 Dfanucci : No Kidding!! Profitable versus Un-Profitable. If the WN guys aren't screaming about F9 having been in Chapter 11 and being bought by a broke regional
75 LUV08 : Do you honestly think that will stay that way? The just came out of BK protection. Ofcourse they are profitable. Why did the enter chapter 11 in the
76 Mcg : This is interesting. The definition shared above is the definition of the market share of the Denver air transport market. It's the Denver only share
77 Aviatortj : How many a/c does Sun Country own? Pretty sure zero. The airline is probably less than 1% the size of WN and would not do the market or either airlin
78 Mariner : Whoa. It would surely help Sun Country, who are facing a Chapter 11 deadline in a couple of months. Personally, I hope they can make it on their own,
79 JustPlaneNutz : Yep, in fact, were Frontier Sun Country's size they'd already be gone. Nobody would have cared enough to bid for them in BK court.
80 Mariner : I love that cute word "if." "If" Frontier were the size of Sun Country, then a lot of things might have been different. Ted might have killed Frontie
81 XT6Wagon : sometimes an airline can be worth alot more to another airline not for the total quantity of assets, but rather that they have a couple very interest
82 Post contains images Dfanucci : WN supporters have been using the same BK "battle cry" for the last year. It's getting a little old to hear it over and over and over again.... Do I
83 F9fan : Enilria, one thing in your figures is that the figures from DEN is that they break out Lynx separately from F9. Keep in mind, too, that F9 was moderat
84 Enilria : It's not right or wrong. Clearly enplanements are not a measure of Denver market share, meaning tickets sold in Denver. It's almost the retail equiva
85 Post contains links Mariner : United Airlines doesn't seem to use it, either: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...nited-is-satisfied-with-denve.html "Frontier Airlines is secon
86 FlyPNS1 : That quote isn't from the United people. It's from the blog writer/reporter.
87 Mariner : And they say the numbers are from DIA, just as Associated Press do. mariner
88 FlyPNS1 : Yes, DIA reports traffic numbers. They don't report revenue marketshare, because they don't have the data to do so.
89 Mariner : A lot of people are getting the numbers from somewhere and arriving at similar conclusions. Since they all claim DIA as their source, I'll go with th
90 Aviatortj : This is not Sun Country's first time in BK. There are always people in MN who are looking to invest in this company, customize it, then dump it off a
91 Mariner : I can only repeat what I have said before in previous posts - I thought I'd covered the essentials. For example, if they had moved earlier, rather th
92 FreequentFlier : I'm amazed how often the notion that UA is performing poorly in DEN is repeated. There's a reason UA is the only carrier that is growing in DEN at th
93 Dadoftyler : Ummmm...huh???? Denver is the fastest-growing Southwest Station in Company history. Customer increases are *huge.* Hardly a decrease for WN.
94 MaverickM11 : Why are you counting connecting passengers when you're talking about DEN enplanements?
95 LUV08 : True...But most a.netters have a problem with WN so you won't be able to tell them this. We will let them believe what they want in there DEN fantasy
96 Post contains links Dadoftyler : Sorry, guys....my link didn't get included. Numbers from DIA; http://www.flydenver.com/diabiz/stats/traffic/reports/AUG_2009.pdf
97 ScottB : ...and I think that reason would be the previous steep capacity cuts implemented by UA as they retired the entire 737 fleet without any replacement s
98 Mariner : If it were just newspapers, the I might agree with you. But since a number of reputable analysts - or at least, some analysts for whom I have some re
99 Dfanucci : Honestly, does it ever get tiring saying the same thing over and over and over again? If it's not "WN has been making money for 37 years" it's "they
100 GentFromAlaska : Another data set needs to be thrown into the mix. How much of the flying public will shy away from any carrier in BK, afraid they will loose their in
101 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Hmmm.... it's starting to appear that there may be announcement today, but it won't be in Denver. WJHG, the NBC affiliate in Florida has a story that
102 AirFrnt : "I reject your reality and substitute my own" All of the numbers how over and over that UA is loosing marketshare at DEN, not gaining. Most of WN's g
103 Ual777 : ...and WN's DEN loads were 69% for the third quarter....UA's was 85%.
104 Atrude777 : We forgive you! Hahahaha. I find the animals on the F9 planes very cute, and LUV F9's commercials. I really am sad we were not able to merge, while I
105 United1 : It's possible but typically UA does not break out the numbers or comment on a specific hubs performance. Do you have a link?
106 Slcdeltarumd11 : Dude dont forget about the UA fans! People that keep thinking DEN can support three airlines at this frequency and constant fare matching are living
107 LoneStarMike : During the Q & A part of the Media Day event held today, one of the reporters asked Gary Kelly specifically about DEN. He said they were still conside
108 Post contains links MaverickM11 : Here's the "announcement". It's more of the same. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Southw...es-prnews-2536644334.html?x=0&.v=1
109 LoneStarMike : From that press release: The two new gates - were those the ones that US used to use? Did I also read somewhere that AA might be moving to Concourse A
110 ADent : From the above press release
111 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I think that's the first new WN flight at IAD in a long time. Nice to see IAD get a little LUV, too. Edited to add: From Southwest's blog: MORE GROWT
112 AirFrnt : All of the gates in DEN get reshuffled next year (save Concourse B, which UA has a exclusive lease on for 20+ more years). As part of that AA wants t
113 ItalianFlyer : Hmmm....well if it walks like a hub, talks like a hub, looks like a hub...must be a hub Any WN folks know how many RON's will be in DEN after this nex
114 Post contains links Mariner : At least the Dallas News Blog writer has the grace to admit that his question a couple of days ago was premature: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a
115 LUV08 : I know if will get flamed for saying congrats to WN for the added growth in DEN but I am excited to hear the news. For one, its added senority, and mo
116 SANFan : And the great DIA Airline Battle of 2009 continues... Wow, is this interesting to watch; just waiting for the inevitable collapse (of someone) that WI
117 Mariner : Why will it come? mariner
118 Diamond : Thread temporarily locked. Will be re-opened after a significant number of rule violations are deleted.
119 Diamond : This thread was temporarily locked while 41 posts were removed from it. Please do not cause us to delete the entire thread by continuing the pattern o
120 F9fan : Yikes! I guess WN still wants to play in DEN. From what I read, WN got two gates on C. Which gates did they get? I suspect they got C34, but what else
121 LoneStarMike : WN hasn't gotten the gates, yet. That's one reason the new service won't start until March/May. But I asked the same question and AirFrnt was kind en
122 N7371f : US Airways is moving in with United on Concourse B. It remains to be seen if Continental will stay on 'A' or also move to B to sync with Star Allianc
123 ADent : They have plans to build out C - and they almost started a couple of years ago. But DEN wants someone to pay for it and it was stalled while UA then
124 AirFrnt : The master plan for the airport has "triggers" in it calling for expansion once certain traffic levels are reached and maintained. The first of those
125 Post contains links Mariner : I'm wary of posting this as no doubt some here will denounce me as a "WN hater" - LOL - but for those that can see past that, I'm scratching my head a
126 FlyPNS1 : I don't think you are bashing WN and I think a lot of people are asking the same question. I believe that WN still wants someone dead at DEN. I think
127 Mariner : Okay. Why? There is no history of this at Southwest. They bought Muse to allow one of their founders - however much they sparred - to leave the stage
128 Dfanucci : Makes sense. Interestingly enough about your dates is there is a supposed email that was sent by SWAPA stating possible pilot furloughs in 2011 if th
129 FlyPNS1 : There's no history of WN taking ten of millions in subsidies to start a new market, but they just did it. You have to get past the way WN used to do
130 Post contains links Mariner : But what if that perfect storm doesn't happen? This post appeared today in the airlines blog of the Dallas Morning News. Since it refers to "our prof
131 SANFan : I wasn't clear with my statement; I meant "collapse of someone" to refer to one of the 3 DEN hubs, not necessarily the collapse of one of the cx. As
132 LoneStarMike : But a lot of folks on the BDL-DEN flight would probably transfer at DEN to go on to other places. Here's how I see it. To call DEN a WN hub would imp
133 Mariner : $250 million would probably have given them Frontier and $300 million was a slam dunk - and Southwest knew that. I think that's a reasonable price to
134 FlyPNS1 : Why? They are two separate markets with only a little overlap. Correct, but you also have to add the integration costs of dealing with F9's incompati
135 Mariner : I would have thought more than a little, but I'll accept what you say. But generally, as Mr, Kelly says, Southwest used to start service to a city/ar
136 LoneStarMike : I'm guessing that Frontier's loads fell off a cliff in the fall was because the DEN-BDL flight (Sorry. I couldn't resist. ) Why not? When AA built up
137 Post contains links ADent : Looks like once again I may have been misremembering things. There were various solid plans to expand A & B - but I didn't find anything but a 2005 p
138 SANFan : I thought I saw, on one of the umpteen threads about DEN, WN, etc., that F9 just yesterday already announced a second flight in the market next sprin
139 N200WN : Easy...because DEN is the best airport in the nation to tie Southwest's network together. It's in the perfect location (middle of the country), has t
140 LoneStarMike : It was WN who added a second DEN-MSY flight beginning May 10, 2010. LoneStarMike
141 Mariner : Yes, I thought I made that point. Start, grow - then expand. But BDL and BOS at the same time is, to me, to be chasing a deal of the same market. I w
142 LoneStarMike : Sorry, I did miss the point you were trying to make (About BOS & BDL having much of the same market) Like someone else who responded in this thread,
143 Mariner : Yes, I was aware of that. But they didn't start BWI-DEN and IAD-DEN - both as new routes - within a few weeks (months?) of each other. I'd regard Sou
144 XT6Wagon : I think they would have rebid much higher if given the time to work out the labor issues. The labor issues had the potential for being a massive mone
145 Mariner : I really didn't plan to revisit the auction, my real question is about something quite other - the seemingly relentless pace of the DEN build-up. So
146 ScottB : The bid for Frontier didn't fail because of the bid amount. It failed because Southwest placed conditions on the bid which were unacceptable to the c
147 Vctony : Now the biggest missing piece in Southwest's route system is ATL. However, unlike DEN, which had a weaker LCC (F9) and weaker legacy carrier (UA); DL
148 Mariner : What was there in it for the (unsecured) creditors to do so? Faced with effective matching bids, sure, that became an issue. If they had been faced w
149 Airfrnt : That's simply no longer true. It stopped being true when WN abandoned the transcontinental flights, and rerouted them primarily through Denver. The s
150 Post contains links ScottB : IIRC, the creditors' committee (or their representatives) or management stated that they wouldn't accept a conditional bid. Here's a bit from a Bloom
151 Post contains links Mariner : To be a tad fair to me, it is not just the size of the bid but also the structure of it. I'm surprised you are surprised. I am far from alone: http:/
152 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I thought about this some more and I think I may have at least part of the answer. First off, one of the reasons they even announced DEN in the first
153 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I think BDL competes more for passengers with LGA and Amtraks EWR rail stop than it does with Boston. Alot of conn population is in the southwest par
154 Post contains links LoneStarMike : And yet Gary Kelly recently said otherwise. Gateway for Southwest Midway becomes major connecting point for passengers Being that MDW is WN's second
155 AirFrnt : Their thinking is clearly shifted. They have already ditched transcons, looked at feeders, The amount of point to point routes between the coasts str
156 LoneStarMike : I don't think WN ever had all that many coast-to-coast transcon flights to begin with, if you compare the number of those to the total number of flig
157 WNCrew : ...I remember working the last LAX-PHL... : ( We still do a decent number of long flying though 4+hrs that is...
158 ScottB : What part or parts of Southwest's conditions were "clearly meant to circumvent United States law?" What we know is that Southwest dropped out of the
159 Post contains links Mariner : Because the size of the bid is allied to the structure of it. Most of the additional $50 (?) million did not go to the unsecured creditors. If it had
160 Lexy : Well, most of those transcon flights are hub-to-hub flights or pure O&D flights that have really good demand for them. I agree that WN is becoming a
161 WNCrew : Why is it absurd? Where should they be connecting?
162 Post contains links LoneStarMike : No they don't. All you have to do is look at the pdf schedules. When you say "former transcon flights" are you referring to WN's former nonstop trans
163 Post contains links LoneStarMike : By the way, with all this talk of a "war" in DEN, I was just wondering - are any of you WN old-timers having a Flashback to 1975? LoneStarMike
164 WNCrew : Also, aren't Lexy and MSYtristar always complaining that WN "left them" behind in BNA and MSY .... yet here we've announced new service to both and no
165 Post contains links Mariner : Some comments from Mr. Kelly - about the auction and about DEN: http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125760&catid=339 "Southwest CEO disappo
166 MSYtristar : WNCrew, what's the deal? Sure I was miffed that WN didn't bring back some of the former MSY routes which were operating successfully prior to Katrina
167 Lexy : Of course. I get it. My problem with WN is that they said one thing when AA packed up and ran, and then did another. They have yet to utilize this ma
168 MSYtristar : Nashville is a great city. Lots of stuff going on there. Strong business base, increasing population, and a good tourism market. I, for one, can appr
169 WNCrew : I don't think any airline serves a market because it's people "abide by the "[insert airline] way". They serve a market because the research done by
170 Lexy : So just because we post on some internet forum we aren't qualified to comment on things we may see or experience on a regular basis? Just because the
171 AirportGuy1971 : Interesting read. I love this quote from Lemar Muse, then Southwest president, who was being interviewed over lunch.
172 FlyPNS1 : No offense, but St. Joe doesn't want BNA because people want to go to BNA. St. Joe wants BNA (and other markets) because of the traffic they can flow
173 Lexy : No offense taken, but if he wanted flow and connections, wouldn't other places do that for him too? There was a strategic reason BNA has supposedly b
174 Lexy : I would love to know what that would be. Hey partner, your Lt. Governor was there. Trust me, politics played a part in it. They always do especially
175 AirFrnt : Bond-Mccaskill was passed to guarantee that if companies merged, were purchased, aquired, etc, the terms of the SLI would be fair and equitable. Sout
176 FlyPNS1 : But you should because WN has to make decisions not just to satisfy BNA, but all the other markets that want WN service as well. How well served you
177 Lexy : Trust me, this is the last post in this thread I am making about this topic because it's off topic. I realize what you say, but you basically repeate
178 Post contains links OP3000 : Not sure if this has been posted on here yet, but here's an interview with Garry Kelly about the WN DIA strategy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1
179 WNCrew : Really? Because a lot of what's been said SOUNDS personal... I'm not saying there's ANYTHING wrong with wanting what's best for where you live... but
180 Lexy : With all due respect, I don't think you listen very well. Or in this case, you don't read very well. Did I not post multiple times above that I would
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